The Onside Kick

[Go Bama]

Re: Question about onside kicks

I've seen a lot of onside kicks, but I don't ever recall seeing one executed this way where the kicking teams catches the ball. The kick was perfect. I couldn't have placed the ball that well with a pitching wedge.

It was also SO UNEXPECTED. In fact, it was so unexpected, I can't believe Coach Saban even thought about doing it. I doubt anyone in the country was saying "watch out for and onside kick." It was the pinnacle of Coach Saban's calls as a coach. The timing to call the play was perfect and the execution was perfect.

I'm still stunned. I can't even imagine what a gut shot that must have been for Dabo.

 

[crimsonaudio]

Re: Question about onside kicks

If the ball hits the ground, there's no fair catch. That's why most onsides kicks are unaffected. In the instance of a pop kick like this, if there was a guy standing there, calling a fair catch, you couldn't block him out of the way, or jump up in front of him and try and catch the ball. He gets a chance to catch it. That's where Dabo is confused. We are better at this than they are.

If I were a Clemson fan, I'd be embarrassed that my HC didn't know the rules (then continued to rave about it). For $3.3 million per year, I expect the coach to know every facet of the rule book...

 

[Intl.Aperture]

Re: Question about onside kicks

If I were a Clemson fan, I'd be embarrassed that my HC didn't know the rules (then continued to rave about it). For $3.3 million per year, I expect the coach to know every facet of the rule book...

Ours obviously did. :biggrin:

 

[DocCrimson]

Well I know what kick Griff will be remembered for now.


WAY TO GO ADAM

THIS!

 

[Tide1986]

Re: Question about onside kicks

My question on the play - and only question - is, could the nearest Clemson up-man have raised his hand for a fair catch and prevented Alabama from recovering - even if the Clemson player actually had no chance of making a fair catch?

SIAP

Here's the rule (Rule 6, Section 4, Article 1f):

During a free kick a player of the receiving team in position to receive the ball has the same kick-catch and fair-catch protection whether the ball is kicked directly off the tee or is immediately driven to the ground, strikes the ground once and goes into the air in the manner of the ball kicked directly off the tee.

Note, the receiver must be in a position to receive the ball.

Furthermore, kick-catch and fair-catch protections apply even if the kick is driven into the ground first. Seems like this last part has been misconstrued in various threads.

 

[Tide1986]

Re: Question about onside kicks

That last bit would seem to only apply in the event you didn't kick it off the tee. Like if you were free kicking it after a safety.

That's not how I read it. Sounds to me like the rule is simply describing the behavior of the ball (pops up into the air like it originated from the tee without first striking the ground, instead of scooting along the ground for example). Note the use of "directly".

 

[RTR91]

Re: Question about onside kicks

I believe the rule was changed a few seasons ago to prevent a kicking team from doing the traditional onside kick (ala Clemson's) and having one guy go straight for the receiving team's player while another guy on the kicking team goes for the ball.

Example:

When Clemson did their onside kick last night, one player's sole purpose could have been to hit Stewart right before he tried to catch the kick allowing a teammate to get it. The new rule prevents that because the receiving player would be very, very defenseless.

 

[Tide1986]

Re: Question about onside kicks

Also, isn't there a difference between a free kick and an ordinary kickoff? Doesn't a free kick follow a safety?

A kickoff is a free kick.

 

[Tide1986]

How about this:
SECTION 8. Fair Catch
Fair Catch
ARTICLE 1. a. A fair catch of a scrimmage kick is a catch beyond the neutral zone by a
Team B player who has made a valid signal during a scrimmage kick that is untouched
beyond the neutral zone.
b. A fair catch of a free kick is a catch by a player of Team B who has made a valid
signal during an untouched free kick.
c. A valid or invalid fair catch signal deprives the receiving team of the opportunity
to advance the ball. The ball is declared dead at the spot of the catch or recovery or
at the spot of the signal if the catch precedes the signal.
Rule 2 / Definitions FR-31
d. If the receiver shades his eyes from the sun without waving his hand(s), the ball is
live and may be advanced.
Valid Signal
ARTICLE 2. A valid signal is a signal given by a player of Team B who has obviously
signaled his intention by extending one hand only clearly above his head and waving
that hand from side to side of his body more than once.
Invalid Signal
ARTICLE 3. An invalid signal is any waving signal by a player of Team B:
a. That does not meet the requirements of Article 2 (above); or
b. That is given after a scrimmage kick is caught beyond the neutral zone, strikes the
ground or touches another player beyond the neutral zone (A.R. 6-5-3-III-V); or
c. That is given after a free kick is caught, strikes the ground or touches another
player. [Exception: Rule 6-4-1-f

Yes, and note the exception beside letter c.

 

[TIDE-HSV]

A kickoff is not a "scrimmage kick;" it is a free kick. On a free kick, the ball becomes "live" as soon as it hits the ground and a fair catch can no longer be called. Here's the rule:

Touching and Recovery of a Free Kick

6-1-3-a

2014 A.R.
No team a player may touch a free-kicked ball until after:

1. It touches a team b player (Exception: Rules 6-1-4 and 6-5-1-b);
2. It breaks the plane of and remains beyond team b’s restraining line (Exception: Rule 6-4-1) (A.R. 2-12-5-I); or
3. It touches any player, the ground, an official or anything beyond team b’s restraining line.

Thereafter, all players of team a become eligible to touch, recover or catch the kick.

The "restraining line" is ten yards forward of the kicking tee and "team a" is the kicking team; "team b" is the receiving team. Humphrey was the "any player."

 

[Tide1986]

Yeah, but if that exception is as broad as you think it is, then it swallows the rule. There's no point in having a "hits the ground" rule if the exception applies to all kickoffs. The only interpretation that makes any sense to me is that if you don't kick it off the tee but you kick it in such a way that it drives into the ground and then pops up into the air as if you did kick it off the tee like Adam did last night, the ground exception doesn't apply.

The rule is consistent with the protections that the NCAA put in place for defenseless players.

An onside kick is not the only kickoff scenario in which the ball may strike the ground. The ball may travel in the air more than 10 yards beyond the restraining line and strike the ground.

 

[Tide1986]

On a free kick, the ball becomes "live" as soon as it hits the ground and a fair catch can no longer be called.

6-4-1-f appears to be an exception assuming the ball immediately strikes the ground without traveling beyond the restraining line as defined in your post.

 

[TIDE-HSV]

6-4-1-f appears to be an exception. Edit: ...when the ball immediately strikes the ground without traveling beyond the restraining line as defined in your post.

That's correct. In this case, it wouldn't have mattered if one of them had attempted to call a fair catch, because no one was in the same ZIP code, much less in a position to catch the ball, which, as Saban said, was why they kicked it there...

 

[Tide1986]

Even assuming that this applies to kicks off the tee, it still comes into play only in the very narrow instance that the ball is "immediately driven to the ground, strikes the ground once and goes into the air in the manner of the ball kicked directly off the tee." 99 times out of a 100, once the ball hits the ground, there is no fair catch.

And for purposes of the discussion in this thread, there is no difference between calling a fair catch and not calling one. If a receiver had been in a location to catch the kick, he would have been afforded the opportunity to catch the ball without being contacted whether or not he called a fair catch. Calling a fair catch would have simply prevented him from being contacted after making the catch, and of course, he would have given up the opportunity to advance the ball as a result.

 

[GeorgiaTider]

Re: Question about onside kicks

I've seen a lot of onside kicks, but I don't ever recall seeing one executed this way where the kicking teams catches the ball. The kick was perfect. I couldn't have placed the ball that well with a pitching wedge.

It was also SO UNEXPECTED. In fact, it was so unexpected, I can't believe Coach Saban even thought about doing it. I doubt anyone in the country was saying "watch out for and onside kick." It was the pinnacle of Coach Saban's calls as a coach. The timing to call the play was perfect and the execution was perfect.

I'm still stunned. I can't even imagine what a gut shot that must have been for Dabo.

I told a few at work he would do an onside kick, just like he did with UT a few years ago. CNS is like Tom Osborn. He does not run a lot of trick plays, but when he does they are totally unexpected.

 

[TIDE-HSV]

Re: Question about onside kicks

I told a few at work he would do an onside kick, just like he did with UT a few years ago. CNS is like Tom Osborn. He does not run a lot of trick plays, but when he does they are totally unexpected.

Interesting. I had just told my wife that this would be onsides. However, I never ever dreamed that it would be executed the way they did it...

 

[cuda.1973]

Re: Question about onside kicks

Thank goodness for this play. It will spare us the grief of hearing "If so-and-so hadn't been hurt................." excuse.

Let them try the "If Special Teams had played better" excuse, instead.

 

[bamaslaw]

Re: Question about onside kicks

Ours obviously did. :biggrin:

This is my favorite part of the whole thing. Do they really think NICK SABAN OF ALL PEOPLE practiced a play all season that was blatantly against the rules?

 

[Jon]

Re: Question about onside kicks

not sure if there are still questions, if so there is a post on reddit r/cfb from a retired (or current, can't recall) NCAA Referee explaining the whole thing in context

https://www.reddit.com/r/CFB/comments/40tri3/get_your_kicks_in_rule_6kick_catch_interference/

 

[RTR91]

Re: Question about onside kicks

SIAP... Dabo failed to mention how Clemson's players tackled the South Carolina player, which makes the two plays drastically different.