The running game... or lack thereof

[arthurdawg]

I hope we recruit and devleop better RBs and solidify the OL and commit to the run.

But I agree... 1/3 run and 2/3 run is probably where we will stick going forward.

 

[Bamabuzzard]

I think you are basically agreeing my point, it’s skewed either way. You can just look at the RB avg per carry to see which is a healthy 4.6 and 4.2 for Jam and Riley.

My point there was people can’t say running is this XXX avg per carry and assume you gain those yards. It’s very misleading and just factually incorrect. Especially in this type of offense which you said as well Bama is not designed to run it three times and get a first. Not saying the avg is bad but the run game needs to improve/be more consistent. Having the best RB out most of season overall at this point hurts the consistency and also another example of how stats are skewed and shouldn’t be used as mentioned. Lack of being able to get 1-3 yards on third down from a run can lose a game, being able to pick it up consistently isn’t easy though and takes an elite team. Having to consistently make 4th downs is the nerve wracking part at this point.

note: most of these discussions are nitpicking especially in this brutal stretch.

I get what you're saying but all stats are like that and yet we use them to get a general idea of how we're playing. They aren't a literal picture of every single play or rush, though sometimes during games it can play out that way. The overriding point I was making is, we're running the ball well enough that we're in more third down and manageables compared to third down and "oh crap".

 

[Bamabuzzard]

I hope we recruit and devleop better RBs and solidify the OL and commit to the run.

But I agree... 1/3 run and 2/3 run is probably where we will stick going forward.

And the way our passing game is able to control the clock, I have zero problem with this ratio. The passing game is eating clock like most people use the running game. I'm not as concerned about how it gets done just as long as it gets done. The last three games we have massively chewed up clock with the pass. If that's what fits this team the best then I'm all for it.

 

[gtgilbert]

Would bet that the majority of practice snaps for the RBs this week DO NOT have them touching the ball!

yeah - at least 2 of the 4 sacks this weekend were somewhat attributable to the RBs.

 

[Tide&True]

Regardless if Jam is back or not we can’t become one dimensional. I know Tennessee will come into this game to stop us from running the ball. The question is can they defend the back end giving up big plays.

 

[smith5753]

I really thought Richard Young was going to be RB 2. We heard so much about him in the off season and last year, he showed us glimpse of breaking out. Crazy part is that Young was considered by many scouting services as the #1 RB from his class.

Unfortunately his high school game has not translated to college. I expect him to transfer out next season.

 

[Bamabuzzard]

Regardless if Jam is back or not we can’t become one dimensional. I know Tennessee will come into this game to stop us from running the ball. The question is can they defend the back end giving up big plays.

I expect some creativity from DeBoer and Grubb if Jam doesn't play. Granted, I hope it isn't a bunch of trick play razzle dazzle, but if Jam doesn't play I don't see them not coming up with some alternative approach.

 

[Tide&True]

I expect some creativity from DeBoer and Grubb if Jam doesn't play. Granted, I hope it isn't a bunch of trick play razzle dazzle, but if Jam doesn't play I don't see them not coming up with some alternative approach.

Hopefully so…if Williams is healthy enough I could see some sweeps in the works. Also, passes to tight end.

 

[bamaslammer]

I think some of this seems baked into the offense. We have been great at time of possession so I think some runs are being taken by short passes. Still when everything worked as designed Jam had over a hundred yards. Add to that the instability at OL and the fact that we don't appear to have an NFL level running back at this point. It's also worth noting we play top 10 teams every week vs many teams that won't have another top 20 match the rest of the season. I do think we can get incrementally better but against this level of competition we just aren't going to see eye popping rush stats.

 

[RammerJammer14]

The important thing to note is that DeBoer has never had a good running game, ever. A thousand yard rusher looks good on paper, but that was a one man show at running back, the #2 rusher was a wide receiver, you can't expect to make it through an SEC schedule with only one running back.

I think what we're seeing is just ingrained into their approach, it even carried over with Grubb to the NFL. However, it is worth noting that in 2019 Grubb was the OC for Fresno St. before DeBoer was there. They managed the 59th rushing offense, which doesn't sound like much but that I think would be a high for either of them without a running QB. It then fell off a cliff the next year (with the same running back), once DeBoer arrived.

So, I think there's a systematic problem here that for some reason a lot of people overlooked. However, they seem to be aware of it and are attempting to address it. You can't win in the SEC with no running game, you can't win if your second best rusher is a receiver (happened multiple years). They just have to adapt and there are some signs they are trying to and are starting to, but learning new things can't be easy.



I would note that you are pointing to years where the Alabama offense went off track though. The only year in which the starting QB won a championship out of those seasons also coincided with a Heisman candidate at running back. Otherwise those are pretty much all years where the running backs tended to be under-utilized and they overly relied on QB play. Specifically that's 7 years with the only championship being a late QB swap (which kind of re-calibrated the offense). I don't see that as a roadmap for success but rather where things started to go wrong.

That’s what I gathered from observation- DeBoer prefers using the short passing game as his “rushing” offense.

I would point out though- yes 2017 we won a championship with a QB change, but 2020 we also won an NC- our only other undefeated season under Saban- with a more classic QB playstyle and those numbers were also tilted towards the pass.

I think what we see post-Coker and Hurts is an emphasis on the passing game due to changes in the play of the game in the SEC.

 

[BAMARICH]

I would note that you are pointing to years where the Alabama offense went off track though. The only year in which the starting QB won a championship out of those seasons also coincided with a Heisman candidate at running back. Otherwise those are pretty much all years where the running backs tended to be under-utilized and they overly relied on QB play. Specifically that's 7 years with the only championship being a late QB swap (which kind of re-calibrated the offense). I don't see that as a roadmap for success but rather where things started to go wrong.

Not sure what you're pointing out. We won TWO natties in this time frame. The first was in 2017 when Tua replaced Hurts off the bench in the second half. The second was in 2020 with Mac Jones. When we had Tua, Mac Jones, and Bryce Young our stats showed a reliance far more on the pass than run... as they should have given the talent at QB and WR. I don't think they "under-utilized" the RB's so much as they played to their strengths in those years. The main point I and a few others are making is that if you think "you HAVE to run to gain at least 40-50% of your yardage to win", that's a false narrative. Both LSU and UA demonstrated it to be false.

I think a better narrative would be "you need to be able to control the clock to win"... which in the past equated to "you have to run" but in CKD's offense is accomplished through the passing game as well.

 

[RammerJammer14]

Not sure what you're pointing out. We won TWO natties in this time frame. The first was in 2017 when Tua replaced Hurts off the bench in the second half. The second was in 2020 with Mac Jones. When we had Tua, Mac Jones, and Bryce Young our stats showed a reliance far more on the pass than run... as they should have given the talent at QB and WR. I don't think they "under-utilized" the RB's so much as they played to their strengths in those years. The main point I and a few others are making is that if you think "you HAVE to run to gain at least 40-50% of your yardage to win", that's a false narrative. Both LSU and UA demonstrated it to be false.

I think a better narrative would be "you need to be able to control the clock to win"... which in the past equated to "you have to run" but in CKD's offense is accomplished through the passing game as well.

Yeah I don’t recall if this is how he played it at previous stops as well but I’ve never seen a passing attack offensively control the clock as well as we have this season. In fact I feel like it’s been years since we dominated the clock so well. Maybe since Henry.

 

[bamajas]

Not sure what you're pointing out. We won TWO natties in this time frame. The first was in 2017 when Tua replaced Hurts off the bench in the second half. The second was in 2020 with Mac Jones. When we had Tua, Mac Jones, and Bryce Young our stats showed a reliance far more on the pass than run... as they should have given the talent at QB and WR. I don't think they "under-utilized" the RB's so much as they played to their strengths in those years. The main point I and a few others are making is that if you think "you HAVE to run to gain at least 40-50% of your yardage to win", that's a false narrative. Both LSU and UA demonstrated it to be false.

I think a better narrative would be "you need to be able to control the clock to win"... which in the past equated to "you have to run" but in CKD's offense is accomplished through the passing game as well.

This is the key.

I can't remember which specific interview it was, but CKD was talking about Ty running the 2 min O, and said something to the effect of, "Even if the Defense is in the right call, we've always got an open guy." In the UGA game, especially, you could see multiple open guys on most plays. Combine that with "The RB is the first read on a lot of plays" and you can see the wisdom behind it.

Is it easier to find/recruit elite WRs today or dominating RBs?

 

[dWarriors88]

I think a lot of you are forgetting who Ryan Grubb is. He literally got walked out of the Seattle Seahawks for not running the ball. I think I made a post on this when we announced his hiring. Let me go find it. Anyways, the lack of running game shouldn't be a surprise to anyone paying attention to trends.

Check my post out here from Jan 7th 2025.

His inability to utilize run is quite literally the only reason he's even working for Kalen DeBoer and Alabama. So I think we just need to enjoy the good things we have going, and not harp on the things that just aren't gonna happen.

 

[dtgreg]

And the way our passing game is able to control the clock, I have zero problem with this ratio. The passing game is eating clock like most people use the running game. I'm not as concerned about how it gets done just as long as it gets done. The last three games we have massively chewed up clock with the pass. If that's what fits this team the best then I'm all for it.

Yep. Our time of possession is amazing. If we can play "keep-away", what folks now call "complimentary football", I'm all about it.

The rules have been changed because Saban solved college football. We seem to have an outstanding group of coaches who get it.

 

[dtgreg]

I think a lot of you are forgetting who Ryan Grubb is. He literally got walked out of the Seattle Seahawks for not running the ball. I think I made a post on this when we announced his hiring. Let me go find it. Anyways, the lack of running game shouldn't be a surprise to anyone paying attention to trends.

Check my post out here from Jan 7th 2025.

His inability to utilize run is quite literally the only reason he's even working for Kalen DeBoer and Alabama. So I think we just need to enjoy the good things we have going, and not harp on the things that just aren't gonna happen.

Let's see how the Seahawks org does compared to ours. They may have been right in the Pros. I can't find fault (granted with an elite QB) with the way CKD and CRG are navigating the current rules.

 

[Tug Tide]

Regarding Time of Possession, Ty sure doesn’t care for leaving time on the play clock.
Seriously, his ability to make checks and the staff’s trust in him to do it has been one of the keys to controlling the clock.

 

[mlh]

We're huddling instead of standing at the LOS and staring at the sideline and Ty has the option to change the play at the line, based on the defensive alignment. We rarely go up tempo. As a result, we're often snapping the ball with 5 seconds or less on the play clock. When you combine that with the fact that we don't have a lot of incomplete passes, we're eating clock like the old "smash mouth" days.

 

[Con]

Regarding Time of Possession, Ty sure doesn’t care for leaving time on the play clock.
Seriously, his ability to make checks and the staff’s trust in him to do it has been one of the keys to controlling the clock.

I agree but I feel like he is going to get it off where as I didn’t back when Bryce Young was doing it. Maybe the system is better suited now than the way Bill O’Brien was calling the games.

 

[dtgreg]

I agree but I feel like he is going to get it off where as I didn’t back when Bryce Young was doing it. Maybe the system is better suited now than the way Bill O’Brien was calling the games.

I feel like BOB was obviously an NFL OC but these guys are coaching better.