You continue to state that all suicide bombers are terrorists. But if that overly simplistic view were true, you would consider kamikaze pilots to be terrorists. Clearly they were not. Therefore, suicide bombing can be and has been an effective military strategy to make up for deficits in other areas.
Volunteer terrorists seek to attack Israel
- Thread starter NYBamaFan
- Start date
You're becoming nonsensical here. What does suicide bombing have to do with the use of nuclear weapons?
If you can justify the murder of innocents to achieve a military goal, then nukes are fine. That is the difference between terrorist bombers and kamikazies. It is a significant difference.
I
It's On A Slab
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Yeah, I never understood the polygamists. Dealing with a houseload of hormones raising two daughters, I can only imagine what a fundamentalist Mormon must put up with having a whole host of raging hormones under his roof.
I think the words used here need to be defined carefully so that unintended meanings aren't conveyed. To me, "terrorism" is restricted to deadly acts of violence that are designed to instill terror, panic, or fear into a population. If the acts are targeted against a government or military, it's hard to fit within that definition. If the intent is to kill citizens randomly, then it's clearly terrorism.
Torsten - what you state is true. However, when the "enemy" hides behind women and children, and fire wayward rockets indiscriminately at cities across the border, and indoctrinates hate and murder in their children as early as age four and five, what are the options?
You have to make them recognize that their current way of life will only bring them pain and suffering - beyond belief. You have to make them fear being labeled "terrorist".
Also, they are sheltered by civilians because the civilians know that we (or, in this case, the Israelis) will not kill them indiscriminately. That is what has to end. We have to begin killing them indiscriminately. We have to make civilians fear being implicated in the harboring of terrorists. This should result in an automatic death sentence.
This is the only road which leads to a world without terrorism. It is the only thing that has worked in the past. It is a bloody road, and one that America is not ready to walk - but the Israelis are...
You're completely ignoring what I'm saying. This will be my last try.
You are not making a point that I can discern. Are you trying to say that the Israeli soldiers are terrorists or trying to commit suicide?
The tactics you mention qualify as terrorism. There are a number of options. Iraq style counter insurgencies are the most palatable but result in more casualties for the Israeli side. Strategic strikes on terror targets, which has been the most common method, causes more civilian casualties and usually results in more international complaints. Some might even say that reciprocal terrorism isn't out of bounds because it is responsive in nature and thus of a different moral character. Often populations that are supportive of terrorism in the name of their cause don't have to face the same from their enemies. Perhaps if they did, views might change - I'm not sure. But I'm not necessarily willing to go as far as NYBamaFan though, because the world media will always choose to portray the stronger (i.e. Western) party as the villain, no matter what the underlying issues. I don't think that PR battle is winnable at the moment.
Too true, but it is the only road to victory. I am not saying that Israel has to see a true victory today, or ever. That is their choice, knowing that they will be vilified around the globe if they do. But, if I were a leader in Israel, and I had seen decades of terrorist attacks by a group that is sworn to kill me, my wife, my children, my grandchildren, etc - I might be willing to take the global heat.
Imagine that a man is standing in front of you. He has a weapon, but you have the advantage. He has sworn to kill you and your entire family. He means it, and you know it. He will pass his hatred down to his children and grandchildren. Your family will never be safe if you let him go. You can kill him and protect your family from him forever, but you will go to jail and be viewed as a murderer by the entire world. What would you do?
That is the choice that the Israeli people have faced for decades. They keep hoping that these groups will die out or ease up, but that isn't happening. Eventually, they will kill the terrorists - and they will be vilified for it...
You seem to discount the possibility that the generational installment of hatred affects both sides of this conflict. Now I've never been to Israel, but one of my close friends has lived there for a time and claims that Israelis certainly equal the Arabs in this regard.
I do not see the Israelis as without blame in this conflict, but that does not excuse terrorist attacks, especially from other nations...
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After briefly skimming this incredibly inane thread, I think the crux of CrimsonCT's argument is that if the Palestinians had F-16s, they would be using them instead of suicide bombers. And that every adult Israeli serves a security capacity at some point certainly complicates the civilian matter a bit more than in other circumstances.
With a homeland reduced to an occupied and policed ghetto complete with checkpoints and rocket fire killing all of 4 Israelis, it seems a bit odd to get riled up about that with nearly 500 dead Arabs and no power for hospitals leaving even the previously ill a bunch of ticking Schiavos, but really who cares about those dark skinned vermin right?
As for polygamy, it is allowed in Islam to have up to 4 wives but only under unique circumstances. It must be demonstrated that the husband is to dole out equal provisions (both monetary and otherwise) to the best of his ability. It was mainly instated to secure some level of civil and societal stability in times of war and genocide when returning male soldiers returned with their numbers vastly reduced, leaving a male to female ratio far less than it had previously been, lest many women remain unmarried til old age, which even in our 21st century western carries some level of social stigma.
Of course, that doesn't keep some randy and enterprising creeps from employing the practice themselves, taking even more wives than allowed and under circumstances that are clearly not as suggested. Unlike Mormonism, there is no notion of improved spiritual well-being or celestial reward for plural marriage--it is simply an instrument to maintain social stability in uncertain circumstances.
Its practice is extremely limited in South and Southeast Asian Islamic communities, to say nothing of the US or UK. I imagine its prevalence is slightly higher in more fundamentalist communities in the Arab world, but as with all such cases, the notoriety of such bizarre behavior gives it an exaggerated representation. The traditional family is as central to your average religious Muslim as it is to your average religious Protestant.
ProTip: NYBF never met a reasonable argument he liked.
With a homeland reduced to an occupied and policed ghetto complete with checkpoints and rocket fire killing all of 4 Israelis, it seems a bit odd to get riled up about that with nearly 500 dead Arabs and no power for hospitals leaving even the previously ill a bunch of ticking Schiavos, but really who cares about those dark skinned vermin right?
As for polygamy, it is allowed in Islam to have up to 4 wives but only under unique circumstances. It must be demonstrated that the husband is to dole out equal provisions (both monetary and otherwise) to the best of his ability. It was mainly instated to secure some level of civil and societal stability in times of war and genocide when returning male soldiers returned with their numbers vastly reduced, leaving a male to female ratio far less than it had previously been, lest many women remain unmarried til old age, which even in our 21st century western carries some level of social stigma.
Of course, that doesn't keep some randy and enterprising creeps from employing the practice themselves, taking even more wives than allowed and under circumstances that are clearly not as suggested. Unlike Mormonism, there is no notion of improved spiritual well-being or celestial reward for plural marriage--it is simply an instrument to maintain social stability in uncertain circumstances.
Its practice is extremely limited in South and Southeast Asian Islamic communities, to say nothing of the US or UK. I imagine its prevalence is slightly higher in more fundamentalist communities in the Arab world, but as with all such cases, the notoriety of such bizarre behavior gives it an exaggerated representation. The traditional family is as central to your average religious Muslim as it is to your average religious Protestant.
ProTip: NYBF never met a reasonable argument he liked.
maybe i am just cold and dont care about my fellow man, maybe im just in shock from living in the war zone known as baltimore, but numbers of casualties might as well be number of hot dogs. even though i hear about certain number of people or even innocent defenseless children being murdered/killed it barely raises my interest. i can honestly say i am more intrigued about the latest video game coming out on wii. it isn't that i dont specifically like palestinians. it is pretty much every time i hear of any mass casualties: katrina... the tsunami.... earthquakes in turkey or iran.... all of it doesnt even register as humans to me, just numbers. i was just wondering if anyone else feels a detachment from the numbers representing actual human beings.
I notice the manner of death moreso than the numbers. Lobbing grenades into a market is worse than launching a missile at a military target, even if the missile kills more innocent civilians...
Most of those 500 are members of Hamas, so I don't feel bad for them. I do feel bad for those in Gaza who aren't, who have to go through this crap because their leaders sold them out. Hamas could see themselves losing their grip of power in Gaza, so they decided to unnecessarily ratchet up the fight with Israel. Israel warned them over and over, that they were going to invade Gaza if the rocket fire did not stop (and that they would not invade if it did stop). They had plenty of chances. Hamas brought this on themselves.
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