This is why USC and Michigan were badly embarrassed by lower tier teams this year.
Wake Forest-FSU-Alabama
- Thread starter ncbama
- Start date
I belief is the same; over the next couple of years Saban will get his recruits into his system and things will take off. It doesn't mean we win the SEC championship every year but we will be in the mix. We won't have to talk about Wake Forest be better than Alabama.
My opinion is:
1. Wake Forest - WF may not have better individual talent than FSU or UA but as stated previously, they are performing better as a *team*. Eleven players playing together, in sync, will almost always be better than eleven individual athletes with great talent. Also as mentioned before, the players were recruited by Grobe and know *his process* well.
2. FSU - FSU is in transition. The next year or two or three will determine how much they slip, if at all. Bowden is in the twilight of his career and it's showing. We saw the same thing at the end of CPB's career. His teams were just not the same as the glory teams of the 70s. FSU is still able to compete because they have very talented players. But will the recruits keep coming if Bowden steps down? We'll see over the next few years.
3. UA - UA is also in transition but in a very positive way. A new system is being implemented and the players needed to run the system are being recruited. The current players can get the system up and running and be somewhat successful, but it really needs certain talents and skills. Until those talents and skills are on board, the system is strong enough to produce some wins but will occasionally breakdown and need repairs.
Just my 2.5 cents.
1. Wake Forest - WF may not have better individual talent than FSU or UA but as stated previously, they are performing better as a *team*. Eleven players playing together, in sync, will almost always be better than eleven individual athletes with great talent. Also as mentioned before, the players were recruited by Grobe and know *his process* well.
2. FSU - FSU is in transition. The next year or two or three will determine how much they slip, if at all. Bowden is in the twilight of his career and it's showing. We saw the same thing at the end of CPB's career. His teams were just not the same as the glory teams of the 70s. FSU is still able to compete because they have very talented players. But will the recruits keep coming if Bowden steps down? We'll see over the next few years.
3. UA - UA is also in transition but in a very positive way. A new system is being implemented and the players needed to run the system are being recruited. The current players can get the system up and running and be somewhat successful, but it really needs certain talents and skills. Until those talents and skills are on board, the system is strong enough to produce some wins but will occasionally breakdown and need repairs.
Just my 2.5 cents.
Exactly. That is why teams like Alabama, Michigan and Notre Dame have such a hard time when their team is just good rather than great. It's even worse when the team has serious issues like Notre Dame but the opponents are still getting up for the game like Knute Rockne is still the coach.
If Alabama and Michigan had a Wake Forest emblem on the side of the helmet, both might still be undefeated.
Alabama, unfortunately, is still going through transition and sanctions pains so we aren't as able to kick it up a notch like LSU and Ohio State can.
Spot on, Bamabuzzard! And the history @ Alabama more than proves the point in your post! "One Heatbeat = Team."
Roll Tide!:BigA:
And the biggest reason: Jim Grobe is one heck of a coach.
We hired the right coach at Alabama and Wake certainly has their's in Coach Grobe. What a fun team to watch!
We hired the right coach at Alabama and Wake certainly has their's in Coach Grobe. What a fun team to watch!
I think this says much more about FSU being a chaotic team than does about the quality coaching of Jim Grobe.
FSU has been getting beat by teams like NC State for years - pretty much starting in the late 90s when Bowden became a figurehead.
Wake Forest is already lost two games.
According to Mike Tirico on his radio show this afternoon, when discussing the FSU-Wake game, he said over the past 4 recruiting classes, that (according to Rivals) FSU had the 3rd ranked class nationally in 2004, the 2nd ranked class in 2005, the 3rd ranked class in 2006, and the 21st ranked class in 2007. Tirico went on to say that according to the same website, Wake had classes during this stretch that ranged from 69th to 89th. So, according to recruiting gurus, FSU not only had better talent, but they had talent to be on par with USC and LSU. But, its obvious that FSU hasn't had near the success over the past few years as USC and LSU or even, say, Florida and Auburn. The difference is having the right coach who's running an effective program.
Last year's Wake team learned that not only were they good enough to win, the learned how to win. IMO, FSU doesn't know how to do that anymore. Bowden seems to have lost that overwhelming fire he had during the 90's.
As for Bama, yes, we don't have FSU's talent, and we don't have the experience in a system that Wake has, but I think the problem lies deeper than that. It is my humble opinion that these players don't fully know what intensity is. the have intense moments, but CNS is trying to get them to understand that they have to be intense at all times, not only during the game, but in the weightroom, on the practice field, and watching film. I think that the biggest problem with Shula's program was that there was no real air of competition between the players. These guys that CNS inherited just have not been able to take themselves to the next level and sustain it for 4 qtrs. We saw how many letdowns XCMS's teams had during a game. I don't think you can chalk those letdowns up to a lack of conditioning only. I think that it had a lot to do with a lack of competitevness and a lack of intensity.
I say this with all the due respect to the current Bama players, and they're my guys too, but I just think that these players, after being in XCMS's program for that last 3-4 years has left them psychologically inconsistent. What I mean is, they can be intense, but they don't know yet how to sustain it, and be champions. This is the biggest challenge facing CNS this year. I think that's what CNS means when he says things like he's trying to convince certain guys that they are good enough to win. Put in the effort, keep the intensity, stay competitive! That's the process!
Last year's Wake team learned that not only were they good enough to win, the learned how to win. IMO, FSU doesn't know how to do that anymore. Bowden seems to have lost that overwhelming fire he had during the 90's.
As for Bama, yes, we don't have FSU's talent, and we don't have the experience in a system that Wake has, but I think the problem lies deeper than that. It is my humble opinion that these players don't fully know what intensity is. the have intense moments, but CNS is trying to get them to understand that they have to be intense at all times, not only during the game, but in the weightroom, on the practice field, and watching film. I think that the biggest problem with Shula's program was that there was no real air of competition between the players. These guys that CNS inherited just have not been able to take themselves to the next level and sustain it for 4 qtrs. We saw how many letdowns XCMS's teams had during a game. I don't think you can chalk those letdowns up to a lack of conditioning only. I think that it had a lot to do with a lack of competitevness and a lack of intensity.
I say this with all the due respect to the current Bama players, and they're my guys too, but I just think that these players, after being in XCMS's program for that last 3-4 years has left them psychologically inconsistent. What I mean is, they can be intense, but they don't know yet how to sustain it, and be champions. This is the biggest challenge facing CNS this year. I think that's what CNS means when he says things like he's trying to convince certain guys that they are good enough to win. Put in the effort, keep the intensity, stay competitive! That's the process!
If a college team has good quarterback play, a very good running back, and a good defense they can play with anyone, especially when playing at home.
1. FSU, that team in chaos really dominated us.
2. FSU not get up for Wake Forest? Wake beat them 30-0 at T'hassee last year
on national TV, the first ever Nole shutout and Bowden's most embarrassing
lost by far at FSU.
3. Check out the fourth quarter: Look how little unrecruited Riley Skinner played . . . how he
picked out second and third receivers . . . how he maintained his poise in
the pocket . . . how he never stopped scanning the field. Isn't he a sophomore?
sorry, I quoted the wrong post. My mistake.
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yep, because according to that logic Stanford should be rated in the top five right....right....any takers on that one.
I agree with this on so many levels and have tried to explain it before but could'nt word it like I wanted to. Good job!
A lot of fans tend to over the mental aspect of 18-23 year old players.
CNS said last Sunday on tv that he wished the players thought they were as good as he did and play to their potential.
1. That's what "chaotic" means - one week they can be great and the next week they can be quite ordinary. With FSU's talent, they can hang with anyone - unfortunately they now have to depend on the players self motivating.
2. That was not Bowden's most embarrassing loss. He has had plenty to teams like NC State and Virginia over the last few years.
Players sign with FSU to play in epic battles against teams like UF and FSU, not to struggle against Wake Forest.
Bowden and the coaching staff may have been motivated to beat WF, but the players weren't.
Bama in '92 .. we were way weaker than Miami, and we all know how that turned out.
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