Why no National Championship in 1945?
- Thread starter drjohn432
- Start date
Re: National Championship
BAMA doesn't claim any championships after 1936 (the inception of the AP poll) that isn't rewarded by either the AP or coaches' poll.
BAMA doesn't claim any championships after 1936 (the inception of the AP poll) that isn't rewarded by either the AP or coaches' poll.
Re: National Championship
Man, its a slow day.
I don't know if I will be able to watch the game tonight thinking about this. RTR.. :biga:
Man, its a slow day.
I don't know if I will be able to watch the game tonight thinking about this. RTR.. :biga:
Re: National Championship
For what it's worth...
Prior to the AP/UPI title era, the national champions were decided by who won the Rose Bowl. People will precariously say polls declared who was champions for that year, but the polls didn't go into effect until years later.
1925: Defeated Washington in the Rose Bowl.
1926: Tied Stanford in the Rose Bowl, giving each team a share of the title.
1930: Defeated Washington State in the Rose Bowl.
1934: Defeated Stanford in the Rose Bowl.
Keep in mind that in this period in time "polls" didn't decide on who was national champions for a particular season. The Rose Bowl was the granddaddy of them all and you were declared champions of the universe if you won that game.
In the 1936 season, the AP and UPI titles went into effect.
1941: Uncertain as to why this title is claimed. Neither the AP nor UPI awarded us this season.
1961: Both AP and UPI awarded Alabama with the title.
1964: Both the AP and UPI awarded Alabama with the title.
1965: The AP awarded Alabama with the title.
1973: The UPI poll awarded Alabama with the title.
1978: The AP awarded Alabama with the title.
1979: The AP and UPI awarded Alabama with the title.
1992: The AP and UPI awarded Alabama with the title.
Unclaimed titles:
1936: Alabama finished the season 8-0-1, but didn't claim a National Title because they finished the season ranked 4th in the AP poll.
1937: Alabama finishes the season 9-1, losing to USC in the Rose Bowl and ending the season ranked 4th in the AP poll.
1945: Alabama finished the season 10-0, blowing out USC in the Rose Bowl, but didn't claim a title because we finished the season ranked number 2 in the AP poll, behind number 1, Army. Some argue that the 1945 team may have been Bama's greatest of all time.
1962: Alabama finished the season 10-1 with an Orange Bowl victory over Oklahoma, but didn't claim a title because we finished the season ranked 5th in both the AP and UPI polls.
1966 (See the new novel, "The Missing Ring"): Alabama was aiming for their third straight National Championship. Ending the previous season ranked number 1, Alabama was mysteriously preseason ranked "3rd" in 1966. In the other major poll, AP, Alabama started the season ranked first, but was mysteriously moved to third at the season's end?!?!?! At the season's end, Alabama finished undefeated, destroying Nebraska in the Orange Bowl 34-7. However, first ranked Notre Dame and second ranked Michigan State intentionally played to a 10-10 tie in their final game against each other (which wasn't even a bowl game). Instead of Alabama moving to first place, they were oddly held at third. The Southern nation always felt (and some still do) that this was done intentionally to keep a Southern team from winning a third consecutive title. In addition, a quick review of the results from Alabama's '66 season shows a team that by far outclassed all of the competition it faced. Bama manhandled every opponent only giving up a total of 37 points all season long while shutting out the 7 of the 11 opponents they played. Fortunately, at least one well known individual of that time also felt that Alabama was a deserving team that year. Vince Lombardi, after winning the Super Bowl, was asked if the Packers had removed all doubt as to who was the best football team in the world. Lombardi replied, "Well, I don't know. We haven't played Alabama yet!!"
1974: Alabama finished the season ranked 5th in the AP poll and 2nd in the UPI poll, as well as lost their bowl game against Notre Dame.
1975: Alabama finished the season 11-1 with a 13-6 victory over Penn State in the Sugar Bowl, but did not claim a title because they finished the season ranked 3rd in both the AP and UPI polls.
1977: Alabama finished the season ranked 11-1 with a 35-6 Sugar Bowl victory over Ohio State, but did not claim a title because we finished the season ranked 2nd in both the AP and UPI polls.
For what it's worth...
Prior to the AP/UPI title era, the national champions were decided by who won the Rose Bowl. People will precariously say polls declared who was champions for that year, but the polls didn't go into effect until years later.
1925: Defeated Washington in the Rose Bowl.
1926: Tied Stanford in the Rose Bowl, giving each team a share of the title.
1930: Defeated Washington State in the Rose Bowl.
1934: Defeated Stanford in the Rose Bowl.
Keep in mind that in this period in time "polls" didn't decide on who was national champions for a particular season. The Rose Bowl was the granddaddy of them all and you were declared champions of the universe if you won that game.
In the 1936 season, the AP and UPI titles went into effect.
1941: Uncertain as to why this title is claimed. Neither the AP nor UPI awarded us this season.
1961: Both AP and UPI awarded Alabama with the title.
1964: Both the AP and UPI awarded Alabama with the title.
1965: The AP awarded Alabama with the title.
1973: The UPI poll awarded Alabama with the title.
1978: The AP awarded Alabama with the title.
1979: The AP and UPI awarded Alabama with the title.
1992: The AP and UPI awarded Alabama with the title.
Unclaimed titles:
1936: Alabama finished the season 8-0-1, but didn't claim a National Title because they finished the season ranked 4th in the AP poll.
1937: Alabama finishes the season 9-1, losing to USC in the Rose Bowl and ending the season ranked 4th in the AP poll.
1945: Alabama finished the season 10-0, blowing out USC in the Rose Bowl, but didn't claim a title because we finished the season ranked number 2 in the AP poll, behind number 1, Army. Some argue that the 1945 team may have been Bama's greatest of all time.
1962: Alabama finished the season 10-1 with an Orange Bowl victory over Oklahoma, but didn't claim a title because we finished the season ranked 5th in both the AP and UPI polls.
1966 (See the new novel, "The Missing Ring"): Alabama was aiming for their third straight National Championship. Ending the previous season ranked number 1, Alabama was mysteriously preseason ranked "3rd" in 1966. In the other major poll, AP, Alabama started the season ranked first, but was mysteriously moved to third at the season's end?!?!?! At the season's end, Alabama finished undefeated, destroying Nebraska in the Orange Bowl 34-7. However, first ranked Notre Dame and second ranked Michigan State intentionally played to a 10-10 tie in their final game against each other (which wasn't even a bowl game). Instead of Alabama moving to first place, they were oddly held at third. The Southern nation always felt (and some still do) that this was done intentionally to keep a Southern team from winning a third consecutive title. In addition, a quick review of the results from Alabama's '66 season shows a team that by far outclassed all of the competition it faced. Bama manhandled every opponent only giving up a total of 37 points all season long while shutting out the 7 of the 11 opponents they played. Fortunately, at least one well known individual of that time also felt that Alabama was a deserving team that year. Vince Lombardi, after winning the Super Bowl, was asked if the Packers had removed all doubt as to who was the best football team in the world. Lombardi replied, "Well, I don't know. We haven't played Alabama yet!!"
1974: Alabama finished the season ranked 5th in the AP poll and 2nd in the UPI poll, as well as lost their bowl game against Notre Dame.
1975: Alabama finished the season 11-1 with a 13-6 victory over Penn State in the Sugar Bowl, but did not claim a title because they finished the season ranked 3rd in both the AP and UPI polls.
1977: Alabama finished the season ranked 11-1 with a 35-6 Sugar Bowl victory over Ohio State, but did not claim a title because we finished the season ranked 2nd in both the AP and UPI polls.
Re: National Championship
Actually the NCAA recognizes it. We only recognize 12, the NCAA recognizes 17 for us.
Actually the NCAA recognizes it. We only recognize 12, the NCAA recognizes 17 for us.
Re: National Championship
Strange how the folks upstairs want to recognize ones we shouldn't, but won't claim ones we should. Speaking mainly of the 1966 title - I think we should hoist a national title flag up, issue out those rings to the survivors, and have the damn parade. The 1941 title is a mystery to me.
Strange how the folks upstairs want to recognize ones we shouldn't, but won't claim ones we should. Speaking mainly of the 1966 title - I think we should hoist a national title flag up, issue out those rings to the survivors, and have the damn parade. The 1941 title is a mystery to me.
DT_thk:
Re: National Championship
the ncaa itself doesn't award a nat'l title for div 1-a football. their record books list every selector (along with their selection) every year. but BAMA had 2 losses that year while minnesota was undefeated. out of the 13 selectors that year, one (houlgate) picked BAMA. you really think anybody sees that as a valid title?
the ncaa itself doesn't award a nat'l title for div 1-a football. their record books list every selector (along with their selection) every year. but BAMA had 2 losses that year while minnesota was undefeated. out of the 13 selectors that year, one (houlgate) picked BAMA. you really think anybody sees that as a valid title?
Re: National Championship
We had to make up for the ones we've gotten screwed out of some how... LOL!!
We had to make up for the ones we've gotten screwed out of some how... LOL!!
Re: National Championship
First off, I've never seen anywhere where the winner of the Rose Bowl way back when was crowned "national champion". If I'm wrong, please correct me.
I've said it many times before on here; I see the argument to claim 12 and the argument to not claim 12. Honestly, I sometimes wish we just claimed 7 (AP/UPI titles). I'm not so sure I put a lot of stock in these retroactive polls. Yeah, those teams were great, but at the time, no champion was really crowned. Maybe it's just because I'm tired of defending myself against everyone else (other schools) who only claim AP titles, I don't know.
Either way, I wish EVERYONE would come to a common way of determining which titles should be "claimed". Everyone agrees with the AP titles. Some of these retroactive polls (which seem to be a lot...a dime a dozen) we claim probably aren't much more "legit" that Auburn's PNC title. I don't see much difference in their 2004 "championship" and our claim to 1941 (which is a FAR stretch IMO). Here's my question though; if you're "claiming" a championship, is it really that legit to begin with? Flame away if need be as I know I'm probably in the minority here.
Regarding 1945, the National Championship Foundation lists us as the national champion, but we don't claim it. It begs the question, "what makes this foundation less worthy than Houlgate in 1941?" It's almost as if the athletic department went through and nitpicked which are legit and which aren't. I'd really like to see what constitutes a "national championship" and what doesn't regarding these MANY polls. 1941 flat out embarrasses me sometimes when I'm questioned about it.
First off, I've never seen anywhere where the winner of the Rose Bowl way back when was crowned "national champion". If I'm wrong, please correct me.
I've said it many times before on here; I see the argument to claim 12 and the argument to not claim 12. Honestly, I sometimes wish we just claimed 7 (AP/UPI titles). I'm not so sure I put a lot of stock in these retroactive polls. Yeah, those teams were great, but at the time, no champion was really crowned. Maybe it's just because I'm tired of defending myself against everyone else (other schools) who only claim AP titles, I don't know.
Either way, I wish EVERYONE would come to a common way of determining which titles should be "claimed". Everyone agrees with the AP titles. Some of these retroactive polls (which seem to be a lot...a dime a dozen) we claim probably aren't much more "legit" that Auburn's PNC title. I don't see much difference in their 2004 "championship" and our claim to 1941 (which is a FAR stretch IMO). Here's my question though; if you're "claiming" a championship, is it really that legit to begin with? Flame away if need be as I know I'm probably in the minority here.
Regarding 1945, the National Championship Foundation lists us as the national champion, but we don't claim it. It begs the question, "what makes this foundation less worthy than Houlgate in 1941?" It's almost as if the athletic department went through and nitpicked which are legit and which aren't. I'd really like to see what constitutes a "national championship" and what doesn't regarding these MANY polls. 1941 flat out embarrasses me sometimes when I'm questioned about it.
Last edited:
Re: National Championship
They may have been "considered" national champions, but I never saw anything about an official "national championship" being given to the winner. I looked through some Rose Bowl history pages and saw no mention of it. If you've got a legit link saying otherwise, please post.
They may have been "considered" national champions, but I never saw anything about an official "national championship" being given to the winner. I looked through some Rose Bowl history pages and saw no mention of it. If you've got a legit link saying otherwise, please post.
Re: National Championship
Search for the NY Times or other prominent publications from that era . The Rose Bowl was just like the BCS Title game of today . I've heard and conducted interviews with people about it over the years .
Search for the NY Times or other prominent publications from that era . The Rose Bowl was just like the BCS Title game of today . I've heard and conducted interviews with people about it over the years .
Re: National Championship
"yea, that championship isn't recognized by anybody outside of BAMA"
man your all over the place on this one, sounds like your trying to learning this stuff after your typing it. first you say bama doesn't claim any titles after 36' that aren't ap or coaches poll. then you say no one outside of bama claims the 41 title. which is it?
"the ncaa itself doesn't award a nat'l title for div 1-a football. their record books list every selector (along with their selection) every year. but BAMA had 2 losses that year while minnesota was undefeated. out of the 13 selectors that year, one (houlgate) picked BAMA. you really think anybody sees that as a valid title?"
he didn't say the ncaa awarded us that. he said "recognize".
i think your in over your head on this one grasshopper.
"yea, that championship isn't recognized by anybody outside of BAMA"
man your all over the place on this one, sounds like your trying to learning this stuff after your typing it. first you say bama doesn't claim any titles after 36' that aren't ap or coaches poll. then you say no one outside of bama claims the 41 title. which is it?
"the ncaa itself doesn't award a nat'l title for div 1-a football. their record books list every selector (along with their selection) every year. but BAMA had 2 losses that year while minnesota was undefeated. out of the 13 selectors that year, one (houlgate) picked BAMA. you really think anybody sees that as a valid title?"
he didn't say the ncaa awarded us that. he said "recognize".
i think your in over your head on this one grasshopper.
Re: National Championship
It was different but , the same . Like with the BCS title game and the winner being considered the National Champion even though the "Pine Comb Gazette" can freely choose a different team if they so desire . Same with the Rose Bowl Committee and the majority of the national press being the consensus of that era .
As bad as Beano is , he knows the early days . Back in 93-94 he was reliable when barners first began trying to poke holes in our total of 12 titles by questioning those of the Rose Bowl era . It's stuff that even Jim Fyffe ackowledged . I thought all of this was pretty well known . :conf3:
It was different but , the same . Like with the BCS title game and the winner being considered the National Champion even though the "Pine Comb Gazette" can freely choose a different team if they so desire . Same with the Rose Bowl Committee and the majority of the national press being the consensus of that era .
As bad as Beano is , he knows the early days . Back in 93-94 he was reliable when barners first began trying to poke holes in our total of 12 titles by questioning those of the Rose Bowl era . It's stuff that even Jim Fyffe ackowledged . I thought all of this was pretty well known . :conf3:
Re: National Championship
I would be fine if we only declared 8 of them...
'61, '64, '65, '66, '73, '78, '79, '92
I would be fine if we only declared 8 of them...
'61, '64, '65, '66, '73, '78, '79, '92
Re: National Championship
So I guess since the AP or UPI didn't exist back then but a whole lot of other systems did... although not unified....that we should ignore the accomplishments and punish the great men that actually established the tradition of ALABAMA football as we know it today?
Some folks need to go back and research the history of the times and understand why it was such a big deal back in the early days. Yes, the 41 was a little shakey, maybe some others, but we've gotten screwed out of a few that we should have won as well...
To question the "12"....
This is obviously the thinking of a new generation of Bama fan that I'm not accustomed to.... :aiwebs_018:
So I guess since the AP or UPI didn't exist back then but a whole lot of other systems did... although not unified....that we should ignore the accomplishments and punish the great men that actually established the tradition of ALABAMA football as we know it today?
Some folks need to go back and research the history of the times and understand why it was such a big deal back in the early days. Yes, the 41 was a little shakey, maybe some others, but we've gotten screwed out of a few that we should have won as well...
To question the "12"....
This is obviously the thinking of a new generation of Bama fan that I'm not accustomed to.... :aiwebs_018:
Last edited:
Trending content
Latest threads
-
-
ESPN: Judge grants Oklahoma LB Heinecke extra year- Started by TideFans Reporter
- Replies: 0
-
ESPN: NCAA recommends earlier start to football season
- Started by TideFans Reporter
- Replies: 0
-
ESPN: Duke, Diaz reach contract extension through '32
- Started by TideFans Reporter
- Replies: 0
-
ESPN: WR Knox found negligent in crash, to pay $2.8M
- Started by TideFans Reporter
- Replies: 0
-
ESPN: Report: Ex-Bama DE used Penix, others for fraud
- Started by TideFans Reporter
- Replies: 0