Global Warming: Opinions and Politics

[CrimsonNagus]

Without the power coming from these plants, there would be no way to charge the batteries on these cars. Say every person in the U.S. goes green and buys a hybrid. That's 308 million cars x2 because most U.S. families have 2 vehicles. How much energy do you suppose it's going to take to keep these cars charged all the time? My point is your going to swap auto emmisions for power plant emmisions.

No, no, no. Please don't bring logic into this.


I don't care what some stupid polls say, I believe the facts not polls.

Fact is (if you believe the scientific community that the Earth is billions of years old) the climate has been in a constant state of change since the world began. Humans have only been around for a tiny, tiny smidgeon of time in this planets life but, I'm suppose to believe that we have caused the most change to climate; even though the climate has never stopped changing since before humans were around, and will continue to change long after we are gone. Yea, okay. Hybrid cars and NBC's go green week will fix everything.

 

[Bodhisattva]

Not really a game. That is a real problem that I have expressed here before. Hybrids really aren't more green. They do reduce our foreign fuel consumption. We need a NEW energy economy. One not based on oil. Everything that we use or buy is pretty much made from crude oil. We have to transform our whole economy. This process will take decades. All pharmaceuticals, plastics, electricity, chemicals, etc are made from oil derivatives and everything else is transported or created using coal or oil power. This is not a situation where we can just buy a hybrid and claim we are now green. It is not that simple.

We may not be disagreeing that much. I'm all for advancing technologies if they are real - as in vetted by market forces and consumer choice. If it comes via government mandate, there are a lot of hidden costs and unintended consequences. The modern example is ethanol with it lack of benefits, higher food costs, environmental damage, Al Gore's undeserved wealth, etc. The government fraud is the shell game.

 

[MegaVars]

Everything that we use or buy is pretty much made from crude oil. We have to transform our whole economy. This process will take decades. All pharmaceuticals, plastics, electricity, chemicals, etc are made from oil derivatives and everything else is transported or created using coal or oil power. This is not a situation where we can just buy a hybrid and claim we are now green. It is not that simple.

Scrub electricity from your list. Our power grid is not based on oil. Our grid is based on coal, natural gas, nuclear and hydro.

 

[CharminTide]

I remember several on this board who championed the idea. That it was before your time or that you don't recall it falls is under the broad and deep category of "not my problem."

Bodhi refusing to back up his argument when questioned? How shocking!

I think your observation was spot on. So what? You're trying to prove to us with a couple of polls that birds of a feather flock together? My two year olds can tell you that. The topic, in this case climate change, doesn't matter. Do you think you would have polarized opinions on gay if you asked those same two groups polled about gay?

Cool. The difference with these two examples is that GW is a science, as opposed to one's subjective ruminations on gayness. So back to GW: which wins out in the battle between objective science and subjective political persuasion? Does science direct one's political opinion on climate change? In an ideal world, I'd like to think so. But these polls and our personal experience suggest the latter. Ignorant politics trumping peer-reviewed science--does anyone else find that aspect of the human condition as depressing as I do?

Without the power coming from these plants, there would be no way to charge the batteries on these cars. Say every person in the U.S. goes green and buys a hybrid. That's 308 million cars x2 because most U.S. families have 2 vehicles. How much energy do you suppose it's going to take to keep these cars charged all the time? My point is your going to swap auto emmisions for power plant emmisions.

I'm hardly saying that hybrids are the answer to all our woes. But what will produce more carbon emissions: 308 million combustion vehicles operating at 20% efficiency, or 308 million hybrids operating at 45% efficiency (coal power being 60% efficient x hybrid vehicles being 75% efficient)?

 

[uafan4life]

GW is a science[/I], as opposed to one's subjective ruminations on gayness. So back to GW: which wins out in the battle between objective science and subjective political persuasion? Does science direct one's political opinion on climate change? In an ideal world, I'd like to think so. But these polls and our personal experience suggest the latter. Ignorant politics trumping peer-reviewed science--does anyone else find that aspect of the human condition as depressing as I do?

I have to admit, the theory of man-made global warming is a science. A science that is biased, bastardized, and pretty much controlled by political interests however.

 

[Bodhisattva]

Bodhi refusing to back up his argument when questioned? How shocking!

I'm not going to go looking for five-year old threads old just to point out what is common knowledge to satisfy your troll-like urges. And your question is typically off point anyway.:rolleye2:

 

[rizolltizide]

Cool. The difference with these two examples is that GW is a science, as opposed to one's subjective ruminations on gayness. So back to GW: which wins out in the battle between objective science and subjective political persuasion? Does science direct one's political opinion on climate change? In an ideal world, I'd like to think so. But these polls and our personal experience suggest the latter. Ignorant politics trumping peer-reviewed science--does anyone else find that aspect of the human condition as depressing as I do?

And there is where my original question to you comes from. Just because the politics aren't yours doesn't make them ignorant. I would never sit and argue that climate change is real, I'd dare say the only constant in the climate is change. But I will argue that we cause it, and moreso that we can effect change in it. You can believe it all day, I won't call you ignant for it. bodhi and g might, but I'm more loveable and smoove than them.

 

[MegaVars]

I'm hardly saying that hybrids are the answer to all our woes. But what will produce more carbon emissions: 308 million combustion vehicles operating at 20% efficiency, or 308 million hybrids operating at 45% efficiency (coal power being 60% efficient x hybrid vehicles being 75% efficient)?

The hybrids power supply, the fossil fuel power plant. More hybrids= higher demand on electricity=more plants being built= more emissions.

 

[Bodhisattva]

You can believe it all day, I won't call you ignant for it. bodhi and g might, but I'm more of a wuss than them.

FIFY

 

[gmart74]

i wouldnt call him ignant- trolls need to be highly knowledgable in various subjects in order to obfuscate reality.

 

[rizolltizide]

I'm trying to change my ways and love all mankind. And stuff.

 

[Bodhisattva]

I'm trying to change my ways and love all mankind. And stuff.

Bi-curious now?

 

[rizolltizide]

Now? :biggrin2: Actually, I'm going to get my hairs cut in a little while and I'm thinking about the ginormous gazongas that'll be floating a few inches away...

 

[Bodhisattva]

Now? :biggrin2: Actually, I'm going to get my hairs cut in a little while and I'm thinking about the ginormous gazongas that'll be floating a few inches away...

In homage to you ..... this is useless without pics.

 

[rizolltizide]

In homage to you ..... this is useless without pics.

If somebody is there ahead of me I'll try to snap one. I don't know if I can pull it off from the chair. Any way to make the shutter quiet?

 

[gmart74]

i dare you to ask them to give you a brazilian.

 

[rizolltizide]

We've gone from global warming to brazilians. See, success.

 

[Zorak]

i dare you to ask them to give you a brazilian.

We've gone from global warming to brazilians. See, success.

I have a Brazilian at home...

...oh wait, I get it.

 

[rizolltizide]

I have a Brazilian at home...

...oh wait, I get it.

If it's her...

...when did you say I was invited over? :biggrin2:

 

[CharminTide]

I'm not going to go looking for five-year old threads old just to point out what is common knowledge to satisfy your troll-like urges. And your question is typically off point anyway.:rolleye2:

I accept your non-gracious defeat.

And there is where my original question to you comes from. Just because the politics aren't yours doesn't make them ignorant.

You've misinterpreted me. I was referring to politics in general being an ignorant compass to direct opinion on this topic compared to scientific inquiry. I was not claiming that any one side of the debate or one political persuasion is ignorant.