Question: What are your thoughts on "tipping" waiters/waitresses?

GreatDanish

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Wow. I can't conceive of the notion of higher costs meals lowering tip percentages. Typically in a higher cost restaurant you are going to get much more experienced wait staff and better service. Plus they are taking much more time with you and therefore getting fewer tables to serve on the night. Standard tipping rules still apply.
For me, the reason I would change rate based on cost is, for example, a friend and I go get a piece of pie and coffee. Say it comes to $7.50. If we stay for an hour and I tipped 15% ($1.13) I feel like we occupied a table by which he could have earned more tip, and he still had to keep an eye on us and refill coffee. I'm fine to give him $2 or $3. Again, if I didn't want to pay a tip for coffee and dessert, I'd go to Starbucks or something.

And regarding the whole "they know the pay when they get the job, so they shouldn't complain about tips" discussion - I see that, but it's comparable, IMO, to a business owner who provides a service for a customer, and the customer either doesn't pay or pays half of what the service was worth. 10-15% is usually the "accepted" range for a tip. If a waiter provides the service of waiting, then doesn't get a tip, that's what he was counting on for income, just like a business owner depends on his customers to pay him for his work.

Yeah, it's different, but in both situations, you are depending on customers to pay you directly, and if they don't pay you directly, you are not receiving the income you expected. Granted, if the work is not done, the customer is well within his right not to pay. And, if the work was poorly done, you should expect less.

But, I still believe that an appropriate tip should be considered a cost of eating out.

I just know so many people who look for reasons not to tip their waiter, and it just seems so petty. They'll pay $70-80 to a restaurant for food they complain about, then not even want to pay their waiter $5 because fifty seconds after getting their coke, it is already half gone and the waiter has been taking an order for a table of 10 so he can't fill it right away.

Again, I just always try to err on the side of tipping too much.
 

Jon

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For me, the reason I would change rate based on cost is, for example, a friend and I go get a piece of pie and coffee. Say it comes to $7.50. If we stay for an hour and I tipped 15% ($1.13) I feel like we occupied a table by which he could have earned more tip, and he still had to keep an eye on us and refill coffee. I'm fine to give him $2 or $3. Again, if I didn't want to pay a tip for coffee and dessert, I'd go to Starbucks or something.

sorry, I do the same. I eat alone a lot as I travel for work too much. I often have 8-10$ lunches and never only tip the %. Minimum of $3 but usually 5$ or so on a really small bill.

what I don't understand is the "I never tip more than $10" thing. Or if "the food is more expensive I don't tip as much the restaurant should pay more". Makes no sense to me

j
 

uafan4life

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All I can say is a lot of people are cheapskates.

If you're too cheap to never tip more than $10 then you're too cheap to ever eat at a restaurant where your bill will be more than $40. JMO.
 

ValuJet

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All I can say is a lot of people are cheapskates.

If you're too cheap to never tip more than $10 then you're too cheap to ever eat at a restaurant where your bill will be more than $40. JMO.
You'd be surprised at some of the people in my world.
 

uafan4life

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Think of it this way:

There's little to no difference, as far as the wait service is concerned, between being waited on at a restaurant versus you or your wife preparing a meal and sitting down at your dinner table and having some else come in and serve you your drinks and your food. How much would you "tip" them then?

The only difference is that in a restaurant you're paying someone else to cook your food.
 

Bamabuzzard

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sorry, I do the same. I eat alone a lot as I travel for work too much. I often have 8-10$ lunches and never only tip the %. Minimum of $3 but usually 5$ or so on a really small bill.

what I don't understand is the "I never tip more than $10" thing. Or if "the food is more expensive I don't tip as much the restaurant should pay more". Makes no sense to me

j
I guess I just don't feel obligated to make up for an arrangement agreed to by the employer and the employee or the notion that I should feel obligated. I guess that's what I don't understand. I don't know why the restaurant industry came up with the low hourly pay with the expectation of the waiter having to live or die by tips.

I also factor in that I'm not the only table they're waiting on within the time frame I'm there. Within the 45 minutes to an hour we're there I'd say the waiter/waitress is handling somewhere between 8-10 tables in the area. So it's not a scenario if I tip "only" $5 that they only made $7.13 that hour. More than likely within that hour we're there they probably received tips from the other five tables as well. So I'd venture to say if the five tables only tipped $3/$5 the waiter just received $24-$30/$40-$50 in tips plus $2.13 in base pay for that hour. Also, if I'm not mistaken the employee must "average out" to make minimum wage. So if for the payroll period the employee's total "income" including tips and hrly rate doesn't average out to be the minimum wage th restuarant has to pay the difference to get the employee up to the min. wage figure. I know when I was in public accounting we did several of the local restaurants here in Shreveport and that's how it worked. http://www.ehow.com/info_8060802_minimum-wage-waiters.html

But either way I don't like feeling obligated to pay for or "make up for" an arrangement agreed to between two other parties that I had no say so in. My money comes no easier than theirs and just as they do they have the right to spend their earned money the way they want. Now if someone wants to set their own set of criteria in how they tip and then hold everyone else to their standard then go for it.
 
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uafan4life

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I guess I just don't feel obligated to make up for an arrangement agreed to by the employer and the employee or the notion that I should feel obligated. I guess that's what I don't understand. I don't know why the restaurant industry came up with the low hourly pay with the expectation of the waiter having to live or die by tips.

I also factor in that I'm not the only table they're waiting on within the time frame I'm there. Within the 45 minutes to an hour we're there I'd say the waiter/waitress is handling somewhere between 8-10 tables in the area. So it's not a scenario if I tip "only" $5 that they only made $7.13 that hour. More than likely within that hour we're there they probably received tips from the other five tables as well. So I'd venture to say if the five tables only tipped $3/$5 the waiter just received $24-$30/$40-$50 in tips plus $2.13 in base pay for that hour. Also, if I'm not mistaken the employee must "average out" to make minimum wage. So if for the payroll period the employee's total "income" including tips and hrly rate doesn't average out to be the minimum wage th restuarant has to pay the difference to get the employee up to the min. wage figure. I know when I was in public accounting we did several of the local restaurants here in Shreveport and that's how it worked.

But either way I don't like feeling feeling obligated to pay for or "make up for" an arrangement agreed to between two other parties that I had no say so in.
1. What the heck kind of restaurant are you eating at where a server gets 8-10 tables??? A waiter covering more than 2-4 tables at once is a rarity. Servers are often required to pay attention to drinks at any table they pass, though.

2. If you don't like to tip appropriately because of the service industry's setup (i.e. the employer-server "arrangement") then there is a very simple solution: Don't eat at restaurants where you have to tip. :)



Edit: Also, servers who too often (sometimes only once or twice) average out shifts below minimum wage - no matter the reason - will quite often be let go. If they only got 4 tables seated in a 6 hour shift then they'll average below minimum wage unless they're getting $20 tips. I've seen hostesses sabotage a waiter so much that they got him fired for coming in under minimum wage too often.
 
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Bamabuzzard

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1. What the heck kind of restaurant are you eating at where a server gets 8-10 tables??? A waiter covering more than 2-4 tables at once is a rarity. Servers are often required to pay attention to drinks at any table they pass, though.

2. If you don't like to tip appropriately because of the service industry's setup (i.e. the employer-server "arrangement") then there is a very simple solution: Don't eat at restaurants where you have to tip. :)



Edit: Also, servers who too often (sometimes only once or twice) average out shifts below minimum wage - no matter the reason - will quite often be let go. If they only got 4 tables seated in a 6 hour shift then they'll average below minimum wage unless they're getting $20 tips. I've seen hostesses sabotage a waiter so much that they got him fired for coming in under minimum wage too often.
My question to you is where are you eating that they ONLY handle 4 tables? Waiters at restaurants we go to cover an "area" and most of those "areas" have more than four tables.

Nowhere did I say I "don't like to tip". Matter of fact I've said twice that it is a rarity that I don't tip. I just don't feel the need to drop $10+ dollar tips at every turn. Nor do I see someone who does consistently drop $10 tips and deem them as "overtipping". If that's what they've set as their criteria then good for them. But it's not the gospel and personally I don't feel it gives them the right to look at someone else who doesn't and call them a "cheapskate" and suggest they don't eat out at restaurants that tip. :D That's being a bit extreme.
 

GreatDanish

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My question to you is where are you eating that they ONLY handle 4 tables? Waiters at restaurants we go to cover an "area" and most of those "areas" have more than four tables.
Waiters may cover 8-10 tables in slow times (like 2:00 to 4:00), but I have never seen a waiter cover 8-10 tables in a busy time. They would hardly be able to take orders. Restaurants would kill themselves for putting their waiters in that kind of position.
It's been 10 years since I waited tables, but I waited tables at 5 different restaurants throughout college, and at every one of those places, the expectation was to have 3 or 4 tables during busy times. If a section were all "two tops" then maybe 5 tables.
But, maybe it's different in Louisiana. Just saying I've never seen it, but I've only been to Louisiana once.
 

Bamabuzzard

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Waiters may cover 8-10 tables in slow times (like 2:00 to 4:00), but I have never seen a waiter cover 8-10 tables in a busy time. They would hardly be able to take orders. Restaurants would kill themselves for putting their waiters in that kind of position.
It's been 10 years since I waited tables, but I waited tables at 5 different restaurants throughout college, and at every one of those places, the expectation was to have 3 or 4 tables during busy times. If a section were all "two tops" then maybe 5 tables.
But, maybe it's different in Louisiana. Just saying I've never seen it, but I've only been to Louisiana once.
I'm not saying every restaurant but we normally eat at places in the chain variety. Pasada's, Chili's, Applebee's etc. I've had waitresse/waiters tell me or show me their area by pointing which "area" they were covering. And what they showed me or "pointed to" covered a few more than four tables. One side of a partial restaurant wall consist of four tables and I know for a fact I've watched servers cover more than that. But after researching a bit I see that the employee is required to make min. wage. Which is what I thought. Again, I tip and don't mind tipping but my motivation behind tipping isn't driven by "they only make $2.13/hr".
 

GreatDanish

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I'm not saying every restaurant but we normally eat at places in the chain variety. Pasada's, Chili's, Applebee's etc. I've had waitresse/waiters tell me or show me their area by pointing which "area" they were covering. And what they showed me or "pointed to" covered a few more than four tables. One side of a partial restaurant wall consist of four tables and I know for a fact I've watched servers cover more than that. But after researching a bit I see that the employee is required to make min. wage. Which is what I thought. Again, I tip and don't mind tipping but my motivation behind tipping isn't driven by "they only make $2.13/hr".
An "area" might have 8-10 tables in it, but almost assuredly there is more than one waiter serving that area. Look at the host/hostess' chart at their little podium to really see how they are split. The tables will very likely split into groups of four.
Waiters often help other waiters. If one just got "double seated" then he may ask another waiter to take drink orders for one of the tables. Or, a waiter going to fill up drinks may fill up drinks at several tables on the way or way back. They may take a tray of food to a table or take dishes.
Anyway... Just saying, I have never ever seen a waiter in a remotely busy restaurant have more than probably 6 tables. I'm not even sure I have seen 6, except maybe when another waiter didn't show up or something. After 9:00, sure. But not in normal dinner hours. Not saying you haven't though. I would just be shocked to hear a restaurant expecting it's waiters to cover 8-10 tables at one time at a relatively busy time, unless there was amazing kitchen support that would run food and drinks.
 

rizolltizide

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I tip well. If I get a really bad waiter, you better believe I'll tip them less than my standard and won't think twice about it. If it's a horrible experience, I'll tip $1. I think that sends the message clearly. My only other condition is if we have a couple of bottles of wine with a meal, I'm generally not figuring that whole amount into my tip.
 

RedStar

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I guess I just don't feel obligated to make up for an arrangement agreed to by the employer and the employee or the notion that I should feel obligated. I guess that's what I don't understand. I don't know why the restaurant industry came up with the low hourly pay with the expectation of the waiter having to live or die by tips.

I also factor in that I'm not the only table they're waiting on within the time frame I'm there. Within the 45 minutes to an hour we're there I'd say the waiter/waitress is handling somewhere between 8-10 tables in the area. So it's not a scenario if I tip "only" $5 that they only made $7.13 that hour. More than likely within that hour we're there they probably received tips from the other five tables as well. So I'd venture to say if the five tables only tipped $3/$5 the waiter just received $24-$30/$40-$50 in tips plus $2.13 in base pay for that hour. Also, if I'm not mistaken the employee must "average out" to make minimum wage. So if for the payroll period the employee's total "income" including tips and hrly rate doesn't average out to be the minimum wage th restuarant has to pay the difference to get the employee up to the min. wage figure. I know when I was in public accounting we did several of the local restaurants here in Shreveport and that's how it worked. Minimum Wage for Waiters | eHow.com

But either way I don't like feeling obligated to pay for or "make up for" an arrangement agreed to between two other parties that I had no say so in. My money comes no easier than theirs and just as they do they have the right to spend their earned money the way they want. Now if someone wants to set their own set of criteria in how they tip and then hold everyone else to their standard then go for it.
This x 1,000

I never had a say in this arrangement. Why am I the one getting hosed? Why should I blindly follow some rule that an employer and an employee agreed upon?

Plus, I, like you, actually do tip. I just don't like to tip a large amount at a nice restaurant. The nicer the restaurant, the more that restaurant should pay their employees. It's just like any other business. The general manager of the 360 Grille gets paid more there than they would to run the Garden Gate (both actual restaurants in the area, both good food.) So why don't the waiters/waitresses make more? Why is it up to me to supplement their salary? I don't own the business.

It's such an odd dynamic. I have never/will never understand it. I go along with it because I'm a decent human being, but that doesn't mean I have to agree with it.


Somehow, I'm being told that I should pay the waiter/waitress more to bring me a $50 buffalo strip loin than I should to bring me a country fried steak? I don't think so. The same amount of work is done by both employees at both restaurants. Just because I paid more for a meal which you brought to me doesn't entitle you to more money.
 
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RedStar

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What are the odds that BB and Redstar are Baptist?:D
Zero.

And as I said, I've been a waiter before. I've also delivered pizzas. Pizza deliverers deserve tips. They use their own vehicles & put wear on them. As someone who did both, I can easily say that pizza deliverers deserved big tips, waiters/waitresses do not.

Edit: That's not to say they don't deserve tips at all. They do deserve them.
 
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Bamabuzzard

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Anyway... Just saying, I have never ever seen a waiter in a remotely busy restaurant have more than probably 6 tables. I'm not even sure I have seen 6, except maybe when another waiter didn't show up or something. After 9:00, sure. But not in normal dinner hours. Not saying you haven't though. I would just be shocked to hear a restaurant expecting it's waiters to cover 8-10 tables at one time at a relatively busy time, unless there was amazing kitchen support that would run food and drinks.
Okay I'll go with 6 tables. And in still using six tables if the low end tip is $3 and the high end is $5 and then mix in those that are like some in this thread who go "above and beyond". Within a shifts time (which can be 4-6 hours you say?) they're more than likely making over minimum wage.
 

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