UNA moving to FCS in Football/D1 in other Sports

[TDBama78]

i see the old gulf south coming back only as div 1 schools. look at samford and you'll see hUe heN hAy.

 

[rollntider]

Moving up to the next Division is always fun. I mean look what my alma mater, WKU Big Red Blobs, has been able to accomplish as an FBS school. They had a streak of 20+ games where they didn't get into the win column. Not saying this will happen to UNA, but when you lose you don't get support. The NCAA has strict guidelines for attendance on top of the fees you have to pay them. You don't hit your attendance goal for the length of your initial probation you get bumped back down and lose your entrance fee. I wish UNA all the best, hopefully the can be a bright spot despite the protests.

that huge fee is for FBS and you have to have an invitation from a FBS conference. They are going to FCS or D-1AA

 

[mittman]

that huge fee is for FBS and you have to have an invitation from a FBS conference. They are going to FCS or D-1AA

Correct. From what I am hearing they are working on an invite to the OVC, but it is not done yet.

 

[TrampLineman]

Yea thats what I dont understand, everyone is freaking out over them going to D1 (FBS) and they are not making the move there. It plainly states in the thread title "UNA moving to FCS in Football/D1 in other Sports". FCS and FBS is a huge difference. Now since they are moving up they can schedule 2-3 "bigdogs" a year and make a killing for getting beat and raise money. It will only help the other sports as they are now D1 instead of DII. Gives kids more options instead of going out of state.

 

[mittman]

Yea thats what I dont understand, everyone is freaking out over them going to D1 (FBS) and they are not making the move there. It plainly states in the thread title "UNA moving to FCS in Football/D1 in other Sports". FCS and FBS is a huge difference. Now since they are moving up they can schedule 2-3 "bigdogs" a year and make a killing for getting beat and raise money. It will only help the other sports as they are now D1 instead of DII. Gives kids more options instead of going out of state.

What everyone is "freaking out" about is the BOT asked for everyone's input. Then did the exact opposite of what EVERYONE said. The vast majority of the students, staff, business leaders in the community and the community at large were against it. They will have to raise fees just for this in the same year that they have already approved a 10% tuition increase. They are going to have to upgrade multiple facilities to be competitive instead of being very competitive in the current division. They are throwing away a huge boost to the community having the final championship game every year (whether or not we would have kept it we know it will not happen now)

Don't get me wrong. There are reasons to make the move. It is just the absolute worst time to do it.

 

[TDBama78]

they will make up the difference buy getting stomped by the alabamas of the world and cashing a fat check

 

[RollTide2U]

What everyone is "freaking out" about is the BOT asked for everyone's input. Then did the exact opposite of what EVERYONE said. The vast majority of the students, staff, business leaders in the community and the community at large were against it. They will have to raise fees just for this in the same year that they have already approved a 10% tuition increase. They are going to have to upgrade multiple facilities to be competitive instead of being very competitive in the current division. They are throwing away a huge boost to the community having the final championship game every year (whether or not we would have kept it we know it will not happen now)



Don't get me wrong. There are reasons to make the move. It is just the absolute worst time to do it.

^^ This^^

Most understand that eventually UNA will join the ranks of the big guy's "whipping boys", and they'll get some good paydays. But a lot of this money has to come UP FRONT, RIGHT NOW in the worst economy in 80 years with no guarantees that it will work out financially for the university. In this economy, that's scary for a lot of people. Businesses in Florence who depended on the Div. II NC game for a little boon in the fall also know that that revenue is gone now. That may be short-sighted, but locally, how is that revenue coming back anytime soon? This town is hurting as it is - we're limping along. In a good economy, you take risks and figure it'll work out. In a bad one like we have now, this looks like a very foolish move. It could work out for UNA in the long run, but the up-front expenses are what has people freaked out.

 

[TrampLineman]

What everyone is "freaking out" about is the BOT asked for everyone's input. Then did the exact opposite of what EVERYONE said. The vast majority of the students, staff, business leaders in the community and the community at large were against it. They will have to raise fees just for this in the same year that they have already approved a 10% tuition increase. They are going to have to upgrade multiple facilities to be competitive instead of being very competitive in the current division. They are throwing away a huge boost to the community having the final championship game every year (whether or not we would have kept it we know it will not happen now)Don't get me wrong. There are reasons to make the move. It is just the absolute worst time to do it.

You answered it, they asked for INPUT, not a decision from everyone. They were making this move when they hired Buster Brown. I doubt Florence was going to keep the DII Title Game anyways. You can thank Buster for pulling these strings, not UNA. Like others have said they'll be whipping boys for numerous big teams. Its all about THEIR $, not your $. Sadly that's college football these days.

 

[resullivan]

I have an idea as a UNA alum. Lets just drop down and play high school ball that way we can win the title every year? Isn't that the American way now? If you can't beat the best just find someone you can beat? I mean, why would we want to even try? Lets quit while we are ahead right?

 

[J.E.B. Stuart]

I'm kind of surprised by the backlash this has brought on. Apparently the students HATED the idea of moving up. I don't get it. The only thing missing from my UNA experience was more athletic pride. No one wanted to see UNA vs. the Bolweevils or UNA vs. the Wonderboys. At least now we'll play decent in state teams and create better rivalries.

Let me comment from this side. I have lived near Jacksonville State for a few years now. I grew up in this, Calhoun, county. Jax State was once a POWER HOUSE in D2 sports. They won the football championship, went to the final or semi finals several times. They won the basketball championship back in the 1980s. In the 1990s they won back to back baseball national championships. Now, since they JUST HAD to go up to this level, to be like Troy, which just kills the powers at JSU that Troy is larger than they are (Jax State vs. Troy was the AL v. AU of D2 schools in this state back then). JSU has done NOTHING, NOTHING in basketball. Very crummy teams. They do okay in baseball, but if they make the playoffs, they are out quickly in the first round. In football, they have not got much past the first round. They struggle to have a decent team. They sign trouble makers from other programs at D1 level and bring them in so they can hope to have a decent team. They brought in the former LSU QB, Ryan Perileu (spell) a couple of years ago and he got suspended here twice. Now they have brought in 2 more trouble makers. So, JSU has done little moving up. They are just another team, having lack luster teams, doing little, average results. In D2, they were a power house. Those days are gone. They might luck up and have a good year from time to time, but now they have this new expanded stadium and the same ole lack luster teams. I have been to 1 game in 5 years that I have lived in Jville. If I want to watch a good game locally, I go check out high schools.

 

[RedStar]

Ok. Several thoughts.

I've been waiting for a statement from UNA's side and they've finally put one out. It's on their new website:

The Transition into Division I - University of North Alabama

The first paragraph of that statement says it all.

Whether Division I or Division II, there was only one certainty: UNA could not stay status quo. It’s simply not been in the cards. Why not? Because the Division II landscape has changed significantly in the recent past. UNA has fewer and fewer peer schools in Division II and the Gulf South Conference. For example, six Arkansas universities, all with football teams, announced plans to leave the Gulf South Conference. Division II schools, especially in the southeast, are becoming fewer and farther away from the Shoals area. Currently, there are only five Division II universities within a 3.5-hour radius of UNA, in comparison to 20 Division I universities in that same radius.

One important aspect throughout all of this is "how will this be paid for?"

Yes tuition went up, but it didn't go up because of this move:

After listening carefully to financial concerns from UNA students, faculty, and staff, the university board and administration revised its initial financial plan to ensure the Division I transition does not compromise academic funding or place an undue financial burden on students. As a result of students making their voices heard, the athletics fee will be phased-in over a six-year period and will be capped, not to exceed $8 per credit hour. Institutional funding to athletics operating budget will also be capped as to not to exceed 4 percent of the E&G budget. The 2011-12 tuition increase does not go to assist in the transition to Division I.

That website says everything I've been thinking about this transition.

So many of you keep getting caught up in that D1 title that you ignore the FCS in this title. Please, stop suggesting we're going to get beat by the Alabama's of the world. We're not going to be playing the Alabama's of the world. In basketball? Yeah, in Baseball? Yeah, but not football, and that's where the biggest difference in competition is amongst all sports.

Am I 100% sold on the move? No. Honestly I've gone back and forth, but since the vote, I've definitely been excited about the possibilities of seeing what might happen.

Look, DII National Championships are nice, they're nothing to laugh at. A National Championship is still a National Championship. But they barely enter the collective conscious of our national attention. DII is in all actuality DIII. The highest tier is D1 followed by FCS and then DII.

Me personally? If I were a Jax State fan, beating Ole Miss last year would have been the most exciting day in my life as a Gamecock fan. Say in 3 or 4 years we do get the nerve up to play a second tier big school. Say we go play Mississippi State and we win. To me, that's more exciting than winning a DII National Championship, because for one day, you know you can compete with anyone in the country, not just the Grand Valley State's or the Abilene Christians of the world.

I know everyone doesn't feel this way, but it's what I personally felt I was missing from my college experience. Watching us pound Ouchita Baptist on a Thursday night just didn't excite me. Hanging 49 points on the Arkansas Tech Wonderboys in one half really wasn't as fun as it sounded. It felt like watching Alabama play Chattanooga last year.

I know we're only moving up to FCS, but at least teams like App. State Villanova & Georgia Southern have fans who care. If we played Alabama A&M at home, at least they'd bring more than a dozen fans to sit on the other side of the field. It's gotten so bad recently that they moved the student section over to the visitors side just so it appears like the stadium is a little more full.

Am I sold 100%? No, I'm still not, but the more I think about it, and the more I read about the details of the decision, the more I want to buy in.

 

[RedStar]

Let me comment from this side. I have lived near Jacksonville State for a few years now. I grew up in this, Calhoun, county. Jax State was once a POWER HOUSE in D2 sports. They won the football championship, went to the final or semi finals several times. They won the basketball championship back in the 1980s. In the 1990s they won back to back baseball national championships. Now, since they JUST HAD to go up to this level, to be like Troy, which just kills the powers at JSU that Troy is larger than they are (Jax State vs. Troy was the AL v. AU of D2 schools in this state back then). JSU has done NOTHING, NOTHING in basketball. Very crummy teams. They do okay in baseball, but if they make the playoffs, they are out quickly in the first round. In football, they have not got much past the first round. They struggle to have a decent team. They sign trouble makers from other programs at D1 level and bring them in so they can hope to have a decent team. They brought in the former LSU QB, Ryan Perileu (spell) a couple of years ago and he got suspended here twice. Now they have brought in 2 more trouble makers. So, JSU has done little moving up. They are just another team, having lack luster teams, doing little, average results. In D2, they were a power house. Those days are gone. They might luck up and have a good year from time to time, but now they have this new expanded stadium and the same ole lack luster teams. I have been to 1 game in 5 years that I have lived in Jville. If I want to watch a good game locally, I go check out high schools.

I don't mean this disrespectfully, but if Jax State fans feel like they're not successful because they moved up, then they're just looking for an excuse. Blaming their lack of success on the division of football they play in is a loser mentality. Just because a team moves up doesn't mean they can't/won't be succesful.

Boise State use to be a Junior College. A JUNIOR COLLEGE. And now they're perennially in the D1 top 10.

Jax State failure to progress should be blamed on bad leadership, not because they moved up a division.

 

[Dr. Keith]

So many posts here that I don't even know where to start. I will just respond to a few things. Someone mentioned that there are not huge fees associated with a move to FCS. I'm not sure how you define huge; however, there are some substantial fees associated with moving to FCS.

I believe the TS mentioned misinformation that is out there. There is misinformation that exists for both positive and negative aspects of the move. Economically this is not a good time for moving to FCS given all of the proration that has taken place and is likely to continue. Joining this with the fact that recent research has revealed rapidly increasing costs of collegiate athletics. (I will post the link when I am back in my office- if I remember).
We all know that breaking even is a problem for FBS schools much less FCS-
there have been several threads regarding this on TideFans in the last few
years.

Let's consider Arkansas State as an example with data that I know to be
accurate from friends at ASU. At the end of the day athletics at ASU is in the
red $5 million which must be made up from the general budget. This is true
even with football playing a few payday games. Attendance is also a problem
and they end up giving many tickets away and barely make it over the
requirement by counting a game they play at Little Rock as a home game. Given just these two issues it seems like a troubling move at this time. Given the current student population at UNA the $150 per semester fee will only generate around $2.1 million.

 

[resullivan]

I think until UNA makes the move and we know the result people are going to argue the way they wanted the decision to go. If they wanted the move they will say look at Boise State, and if they did not want the move they will say look at Arkasas State /\/\/\. If they wanted the move they will say look at how well Jax State has done they beat Ole Miss, and if they did not want the move they will say Jax State used to win D2 championships and now look at them. The bottom line to me is that UNA is making a calculated risk to improve and grow, and to me that is a good thing.

 

[J.E.B. Stuart]

I don't mean this disrespectfully, but if Jax State fans feel like they're not successful because they moved up, then they're just looking for an excuse. Blaming their lack of success on the division of football they play in is a loser mentality. Just because a team moves up doesn't mean they can't/won't be succesful.

Boise State use to be a Junior College. A JUNIOR COLLEGE. And now they're perennially in the D1 top 10.

Jax State failure to progress should be blamed on bad leadership, not because they moved up a division.

It also has to do with the quality of recruits you can draw to your program. If you are not a AL or AU level polayer and are at that next level down and you have offers from two schools at 1AA, you start looking at several things. Would you choose Jax State which really is not near anything (Bham is 60 miles away, Atl is 100 miles, oh, wait we have Anniston, never mind), or some school like Troy which is near Fla and the beach. Jax State recruits all over the place. Few locals on the squad as even though there is fairly good HS football around here, not a huge amoung of D1 or 1AA players. Jax State is going to try to live off the Ole Miss win for the next 10 years. That is their only claim to fame. The next level means you have to get the players to win at the next level. JSU has not really done that. They have one good, one fair, several down years. Plus Jack Crowe ain't Bear Bryant as a head coach either. But, they do have that new beautiful addition to the stadium.

 

[mittman]

Ok. Several thoughts.

I've been waiting for a statement from UNA's side and they've finally put one out. It's on their new website:

The Transition into Division I - University of North Alabama

The first paragraph of that statement says it all.



One important aspect throughout all of this is "how will this be paid for?"

Yes tuition went up, but it didn't go up because of this move:



That website says everything I've been thinking about this transition.

So many of you keep getting caught up in that D1 title that you ignore the FCS in this title. Please, stop suggesting we're going to get beat by the Alabama's of the world. We're not going to be playing the Alabama's of the world. In basketball? Yeah, in Baseball? Yeah, but not football, and that's where the biggest difference in competition is amongst all sports.

Am I 100% sold on the move? No. Honestly I've gone back and forth, but since the vote, I've definitely been excited about the possibilities of seeing what might happen.

Look, DII National Championships are nice, they're nothing to laugh at. A National Championship is still a National Championship. But they barely enter the collective conscious of our national attention. DII is in all actuality DIII. The highest tier is D1 followed by FCS and then DII.

Me personally? If I were a Jax State fan, beating Ole Miss last year would have been the most exciting day in my life as a Gamecock fan. Say in 3 or 4 years we do get the nerve up to play a second tier big school. Say we go play Mississippi State and we win. To me, that's more exciting than winning a DII National Championship, because for one day, you know you can compete with anyone in the country, not just the Grand Valley State's or the Abilene Christians of the world.

I know everyone doesn't feel this way, but it's what I personally felt I was missing from my college experience. Watching us pound Ouchita Baptist on a Thursday night just didn't excite me. Hanging 49 points on the Arkansas Tech Wonderboys in one half really wasn't as fun as it sounded. It felt like watching Alabama play Chattanooga last year.

I know we're only moving up to FCS, but at least teams like App. State Villanova & Georgia Southern have fans who care. If we played Alabama A&M at home, at least they'd bring more than a dozen fans to sit on the other side of the field. It's gotten so bad recently that they moved the student section over to the visitors side just so it appears like the stadium is a little more full.

Am I sold 100%? No, I'm still not, but the more I think about it, and the more I read about the details of the decision, the more I want to buy in.

I don't disagree with anything you have said here.

Most of the people I have heard complain about the costs know that the tuition increase and the fee increases are separate issues.

I would love to buy into this, but I just don't see it working without a huge investment. Braly Stadium, Flowers Hall et. al. just are not going to cut it. Parking anywhere near either of the facilities is not going to cut it. The only way UNA is going to be able to compete well in any D1 sport or division is if they build new facilities, probably well off campus. I heard about some plans to integrate with the complex off of Savanah Hwy. I even saw where someone had drawn up a plan to put a stadium and parking facilities between the practice/baseball fields and Mitchell Hollingsworth on top of Stewart Avenue.

Anytime you try to compare one school to another you may get an idea of what will happen, but I do not see anything we can guarantee will be the same for UNA as others that have made the jump successfully or not. You are right that we are going to have to care and get behind this for it to work, but I do not see where we are in a financial position to do what it takes. They are betting on (in their words) several funding sources. None of them are guaranteed except increasing student fees.

As I have said before. I am not so much against the move, as I am against when and how it was done. IMHO there should have been a decade long plan to prepare for this, and I do not see this as very much more than a kneejerk reaction to the Arkansas schools.

The six year plan may meet all of the goals needed. We also may not meet a timeline, and DII may actually come back into the picture. Who knows.

 

[RollTide2U]

I have an idea as a UNA alum. Lets just drop down and play high school ball that way we can win the title every year? Isn't that the American way now? If you can't beat the best just find someone you can beat? I mean, why would we want to even try? Lets quit while we are ahead right?

I have an idea as a UNA alum too. Timing is everything, and maybe the timing isn't right in the middle of proration and bad economies and a town which is hurting as it is and can barely support the University as it is. I am not against UNA moving up. But timing is everything, and this timing seems very ill-conceived.

 

[Lions]

I agree 100% about the beat downs against those Arkansas teams week in and week out. It was boring, the crowd was bored to tears, well the ones that stayed past halftime were. The level of competition will increase which I think is both good and bad. Remember, UNA could walk through the season almost unopposed and still lose in the playoffs to Northwest Missouri State or in the rematch games between VSU or DSU. Some upgrade to facilities will have to be be done. Braly is a nice high school stadium but not so much for a Division I school. An off campus stadium/athletic complex with baseball and basketball will have to be discussed at some point. I would have liked to see them improve the academic programs and facilities before any such moves were considered. Is it so hard to paint the inside Wesleyan Hall or fix the ac so it works in the Geography lab? How about some computers that can handle ArcMap a little better? A bigger lab would have also been nice. Some type of change was inevitable with the dismantling of the GSC. I think a move to the Southern Conference may be a better one then to the OVC. However, I think the OVC seems to be interested and that will likely be in the eventual landing spot for UNA. I just hope this move doesn't bankrupt the school.