Ruling?--Shooter Fouled Before clock expires, ball released after clock but is good

[day-day]

This came close to happening at the end of the 1st half vs. MSU. I can't find a clear ruling on this and will probably end up with a bunch of guesses. Does anyone know?

If a shooter is fouled in the act of shooting, the shot clock expires, the ball is released and then goes in. I think the ruling would be a shooting foul but no made basket. The shooter would go to the line and shoot 2 or 3 free throws depending on where the shot attempt took place. The refs can use the monitor to see when the ball leaves the shooter's hand so this in not beyond reality and suspect it has occurred.

Without time running out, the ruling would be basket good plus one free throw.

 

[CajunCrimson]

I agree with your assessment, unless you are Vanderbilt -- then, you get the basket, the free throw, and 2 additional free throws for the flagrant foul......

 

[imauafan]

I agree with your assessment, unless you are Vanderbilt -- then, you get the basket, the free throw, and 2 additional free throws for the flagrant foul......

Plus the ball with time added back on the clock.

 

[GreatMarch]

This came close to happening at the end of the 1st half vs. MSU. I can't find a clear ruling on this and will probably end up with a bunch of guesses. Does anyone know?

If a shooter is fouled in the act of shooting, the shot clock expires, the ball is released and then goes in. I think the ruling would be a shooting foul but no made basket. The shooter would go to the line and shoot 2 or 3 free throws depending on where the shot attempt took place. The refs can use the monitor to see when the ball leaves the shooter's hand so this in not beyond reality and suspect it has occurred.

Without time running out, the ruling would be basket good plus one free throw.

It depends on if the ref can go to a monitor and review. It may still be a judgement call. It is either a foul on the floor with time put on the clock for out of bounds or fts if in the bonus, or 1 ft counting the bucket with no shot violation because the ref felt the ball was released before the shot clock light went off. The latter would be a monitor view to see if the ball was out of the hand before the light came on in the shot clock. 0 on the shot clock does not mean a violation because there may be 0.4 on the timer still.
The ref may also be of the judgement that the clock went off before the foul occured.
The scenario that you described is rare but would have to happen in such a fast timeframe that slow motion may have a hard time conclusively giving a correct view.

 

[day-day]

It depends on if the ref can go to a monitor and review. It may still be a judgement call. It is either a foul on the floor with time put on the clock for out of bounds or fts if in the bonus, or 1 ft counting the bucket with no shot violation because the ref felt the ball was released before the shot clock light went off. The latter would be a monitor view to see if the ball was out of the hand before the light came on in the shot clock. 0 on the shot clock does not mean a violation because there may be 0.4 on the timer still.
The ref may also be of the judgement that the clock went off before the foul occured.
The scenario that you described is rare but would have to happen in such a fast timeframe that slow motion may have a hard time conclusively giving a correct view.

Why would it be a foul on the floor if the player was in the act of shooting? The scenario I asked about was pretty straight forward. There is a certain amount of continuation that can take place during a shot attempt.

 

[GreatMarch]

Why would it be a foul on the floor if the player was in the act of shooting? The scenario I asked about was pretty straight forward. There is a certain amount of continuation that can take place during a shot attempt.

Judgement by the ref. I have seen it where a player will pump fake, get the guy in the air, draw contact, ref whistles, player shoots only to have the ref call the foul on the floor. Continuation is a judgement by the ref and is not as liberal in college as it is in the NBA. I was assuming that you were speaking of a pump fake scenario.

 

[PalmBayBama]

The rule book is not as clear as one would like, but my reading of the rule book is that, at the end of a period only, the shot counts because the clock should stop when the foul occurs. Relevent sections:

Rule 5 Section 10:

Section 10. Stopping Game and Shot Clocks
The game clock and shot clock, if running, shall be stopped when an official:
Art. 1. Signals:
a. A foul.
b. A held ball.
c. A violation.

That alone would suggest that the foul has to not just be committed but actually be signalled before the clock expires, but Rule 2 Section 13 Article 3 seems to offer an exception that only applies when the game clock (not the shot clock) expires:

Art. 3. Officials shall use such available equipment in the following situations:
a. When there is a reading of zeros on the game clock at the end of any period,
after making a call on the playing court, and when necessary to determine the
outcome of the game in the following situations:
1. Determine whether a try for field goal entering the basket was released
before the reading of zeros on the game clock. When it is determined that
the try for goal was successful, the official is permitted to put the exact
time back on the game clock as to when the ball passed through the net.
2. Determine whether a shot-clock violation occurred before the reading of
zeros on the game clock.
3. Determine whether a foul occurred before the reading of zeros on the
game clock. When it is determined that the foul occurred before the
reading of zeros on the game clock, the official is permitted to put the
exact time back on the game clock as to when the foul was committed.

So the clocks don't stop until they actually signal a foul, but they are allowed to use the monitor to see when the foul actually occured. I think that means that the shot clock and game clock both stop when the foul actually occurred, but only when consulting the monitor after the game clock expired. Confusing enough for you?

 

[PalmBayBama]

To clarify, even if not at the end of the period, if the official actually signals the foul before the clock expires, then the shot counts because the clock by definition stops when the foul is signalled.

 

[day-day]

Judgement by the ref. I have seen it where a player will pump fake, get the guy in the air, draw contact, ref whistles, player shoots only to have the ref call the foul on the floor. Continuation is a judgement by the ref and is not as liberal in college as it is in the NBA. I was assuming that you were speaking of a pump fake scenario.

Yes, chances are they wouldn't call the foul at all but that's not what I'm asking...

To clarify, even if not at the end of the period, if the official actually signals the foul before the clock expires, then the shot counts because the clock by definition stops when the foul is signalled.

Thanks PalmBayBama. I had read the same rules but was still confused a little. So technically, when a shooting foul occurs at the end of a period and the ref allows the continuation, the actual shot release takes place after the clock has stopped. The basket would count and time would likely be added back on the clock, especially if it had run out before the timekeeper could stop it.

I guess the judgement about when the ball left the shooters hand would be "mute".

I'm sorry now that I asked the question; I'm starting to get a headache...

 

[bamafaninbham]

To clarify, even if not at the end of the period, if the official actually signals the foul before the clock expires, then the shot counts because the clock by definition stops when the foul is signalled.

This is correct and is exactly what happened at the end of the first half of the MSU game. The commentators were talking about it as well. They said that as soon as the ref's hand went up signaling a foul that is when the clock was stopped. Or in this case time was put back on the clock after the refs looked at the video (0.4 seconds if I recall).

 

[TIDE-HSV]

This is correct and is exactly what happened at the end of the first half of the MSU game. The commentators were talking about it as well. They said that as soon as the ref's hand went up signaling a foul that is when the clock was stopped. Or in this case time was put back on the clock after the refs looked at the video (0.4 seconds if I recall).

Good number memory. That's exactly what it was...