Here's one way to slow down up tempo offenses

[Bamabuzzard]

I stand by the principle, even if my wording was incorrect. Once the ball is set, it's at the offenses' discretion as to what they do. If they are hovering over the ball within 3 seconds of the end of the last play then it's their prerogative. No rule exploitation. If the refs are hurrying beyond some normal expectation then that is on the refs, not the offense. I would think, however, that the refs are supposed to have the ball set for play as closely to the start of the play clock as possible.

This is a goal but is not the only thing involved in the concept of "ready for play".

 

[Bamabuzzard]

because, like it or not, people like to see teams score points....we're from a defensive mindset, but people like high scores...

The HUNH does not work against teams that have the right personnel and schemes (See Stanford slow down Oregons offense)...

defenses will have to make the adjustments, and they will.

theyve adjusted before, see no reason they wont adjust again.

Oh I know why. The majority of college football fans are apart of the video game generation. They want to see what happens on EA Sports carried out in the real game and that's what we've gotten. So to do that the rules had to be changed to ensure the offense could put up a lot of points. Like I said. The game has now been structured where the offenses are setup for success via rule changes and the defenses have a smaller realm to work in with regard to adjustments.

Yet we expect the defenses to "adjust". LOL!!! Okay.

 

[CrimsonPride25]

While I understand a lot of people do enjoy seeing points on the scoreboard, I am the exact opposite. I would much rather see a competitive 21-17 type game where a big defensive play/adjustment late in the game decides the outcome.

 

[Bamabuzzard]

While I understand a lot of people do enjoy seeing points on the scoreboard, I am the exact opposite. I would much rather see a competitive 21-17 type game where a big defensive play/adjustment late in the game decides the outcome.

I just don't think many realize that we have created a game that doesn't give equal room for adjustments. I love scheme and strategy. That's part of the reason why we put in rules. Not only for safety but to keep the game where both competitors have just as much room as the other to implement strategy and have the ability to adjust. The game as it stands now doesn't provide that. We've concocted all these rules that benefit the offense and hinder the defense that we've limited the defense's ability to adjust.

 

[257WBY]

Part of the problem is you've got the "undisciplined" part not being flagged. Go back and watch the Ole Mist/Vandy game. I kept seeing the ball being snapped and players not set. Heck, I can't tell you how many times I saw the ball snapped and not only were some of the players not set but the refs nor the chain gang were in place.

"Is this the type game we want?"-Nick Saban

Ole Miss will tell you "yes". They were dead in the water before this offense rolled into Oxford. It brings excitement to the fan base and helps bring in recruits who want to catch passes.

 

[Bamabuzzard]

Ole Miss will tell you "yes". They were dead in the water before this offense rolled into Oxford. It brings excitement to the fan base and helps bring in recruits who want to catch passes.

Oh there's no doubt they would say yes. Ultimately the game will change in accordance to what people want to see and will pay big bucks to see it. It has nothing to do with preserving the integrity and spirit of the game. It all has to do with $$$$.

 

[B1GTide]

I don't want to sound like Captain Obvious here, but we probably wouldn't enjoy the game that originated this passion if it was put back on the field today. As our society has evolved, so have our sports - including football.

Also, what is the "spirit of the game"? Football was designed emulate field battles, with teams fighting for control of the field of battle. To "score" you had to traverse that field, with the opponent deeply entrenched. At the time that football was "created" wars were fought on the ground with simple weapons. Today those wars are fought with drones and missiles from afar. Seems like our sports are just trying to keep up.

 

[Ldlane]

"Original Intent" by Walter Camp:


Walter Camp contibuted the following changes from Rugby and Soccer to American football:


1. one side retained undisputed possession of the ball, until that side gives up the ball as a result of its own violations
the line of scrimmage
2. 11 on a team instead of 15
3. created the quarter-back and center positions
4. forward pass
5. standardized the scoring system, numerical scoring
6. created the safety, interference, penalties, and the neutral zone
7. tackling as low as the knee was permitted - 1888
8. a touchdown increased in value to six points and field goals went down to three points - 1912

http://inventors.about.com/od/fstartinventions/a/HistoryFootball.htm

The Original Spirit was to actually go out target players to knock out of the game. There is no minimum or maximum of yardage you can gain.

 

[Bamabuzzard]

I don't want to sound like Captain Obvious here, but we probably wouldn't enjoy the game that originated this passion if it was put back on the field today. As our society has evolved, so have our sports - including football.

Also, what is the "spirit of the game"? Football was designed emulate field battles, with teams fighting for control of the field of battle. To "score" you had to traverse that field, with the opponent deeply entrenched. At the time that football was "created" wars were fought on the ground with simple weapons. Today those wars are fought with drones and missiles from afar. Seems like our sports are just trying to keep up.

I understand the game has "evolved". But it has done so at an uneven pace.

 

[gman4tide]

I understand the game has "evolved". But it has done so at an uneven pace.

It's been manipulated more in the last 20 years than it has evolved, imo.

 

[Bamabuzzard]

It's been manipulated more in the last 20 years than it has evolved, imo.

I was trying to be nice about it. :biggrin2: But you're right. It's been manipulated. The game has taken the approach that if something seems "unfair" for the offense they change a rule or rules. When there's something unfair for the defense they say "adjust". As I've mentioned over and over. That is about as hypocritical as you can get.

 

[B1GTide]

I was trying to be nice about it. :biggrin2: But you're right. It's been manipulated. The game has taken the approach that if something seems "unfair" for the offense they change a rule or rules. When there's something unfair for the defense they say "adjust". As I've mentioned over and over. That is about as hypocritical as you can get.

To be fair, there is no hypocrisy here. They do not want a level playing field, and they don't care if defensive minded fans or coaches like it. They are being as straight forward as they could possibly be, unless you think that they are lying about player safety issues.

We are on the same side of this issue - I also prefer an even handed game with as much emphasis on defense as offense, but I don't see a conspiracy. I just see an evolution to match the desires of the TV audiences. TV ratings drive sports today, and no one really pretends otherwise.

 

[CrimsonNagus]

The only thing I don't like about the HUNH offenses is how refs seem to forget to call procedural penalties or false starts against these teams. It's like they get a different rule book then teams like Bama. The HUNHO may not be against the rules but they all get away with breaking the rules on almost every play. I see things like illegal motion, illegal shift and false starts on almost every down when I'm watching a HUNHO and I don't understand why they get to play with a different set of rules. What happened to having to be set for 1 full second before the ball is snapped? A Bama lineman sneezes and he is called for a false start yet time after time HUNHO will still have WR walking towards the line when the ball is snapped and a flag is rarely thrown.

I've got no problem with HUNHO but, they should have to play by the same rules as every other offense; you know, the rules that are already in the book. I honestly believe that refs have been instructed to be more lenient to HUNHO. That's the only thing that explains why the refs seem to forget about these rules for HUNH teams yet are more then happy to call it against other teams.

 

[JIB]

I think the conspiracies about the HUNH offense are a bit outlandish.

I don't see the uncalled penalties that people are talking about, but I haven't really looked for it that closely. I will this weekend.

 

[Bamabuzzard]

I think the conspiracies about the HUNH offense are a bit outlandish.

I don't see the uncalled penalties that people are talking about, but I haven't really looked for it that closely. I will this weekend.

Here's one of the main one's to look for. A player has to be "set" for at least one second. On plays that a receiver is down field and having to get back for the next play. It is quite common that in his rush to get back tot he line he isn't coming to a "set" position before the ball is snapped. Happened in the Vandy/Ole Mist game last Thursday. Also, watch for the illegal shifts. That is very common as well.

 

[B1GTide]

Here's one of the main one's to look for. A player has to be "set" for at least one second. On plays that a receiver is down field and having to get back for the next play. It is quite common that in his rush to get back tot he line he isn't coming to a "set" position before the ball is snapped. Happened in the Vandy/Ole Mist game last Thursday. Also, watch for the illegal shifts. That is very common as well.

I agree - both of these happen in these games at the college level with few flags. When the same mistakes are made in the NFL, there are usually penalties.

 

[TideEngineer08]

I was listening to Colin Cowherd this morning and he was going on and on about this. He loves the HUNH spread offenses (of course). He was saying it was a good thing for the fans. More plays equals more exciting football, and it was a myth that injuries would result with more plays (not sure how he can make that claim; he never backed it up). He was mocking Coach Saban for whining about player safety and I'm not sure where he got off with that because Coach Saban never whined. He stated one time that he wondered if it was safe and asked rhetorically "is this what we want football to be?" I'm not sure how that qualifies as whining since he hasn't said anything about it since then. He then started in on his reasons why the SEC fans hated the HUNH offenses. Because we're fat. We're obese, out of shape and our diets are full of fat and sugar. That's why we produce so many great defensive linemen who are 330 lbs but they can't hang with a HUNH spread offense for 90 plays. The northeast and west coast is healthier; eats a better diet, and that's why they run these offenses. Leaner, smaller players meant better cardiovascular health and less injuries (not sure how or why cardio health would have anything to do with more concussions, torn ACLs, and broken bones).

In short, we're fat and need to get in shape and get with the rest of the country in loving video game football.

 

[crimsonaudio]

Fiutak nails it (from today's 'Cavalcade of Whimsy'):

”Good Lord, what has this buffoon done now?” ... To California head coach Sonny Dykes and to all coaches who utilize some sort of an up-tempo, warp-speed offensive attack, here’s the deal. If you’re going to base your offense on a gimmick that exploits a glitch that gives you an offensive advantage, then you can’t complain to an official or roll your eyes if a defense wants to also exploit the rules to its own benefit to slow things down. To Dykes’ credit, he didn’t say a thing about this and did nothing but praise Northwestern after the loss, but going forward, defenses should get just as much right to use the rulebook as offenses do, and that means they should scream wolf whenever they want to slow things down. Now, you’re not allowed to fake injuries and delay the game, but good luck trying to determine who’s dinged and who’s not in today’s day and age of concussion awareness. It didn’t matter if the Wildcats were faking injuries or not, that’s a part of the game now, just like it is for an offense to try quick-pitching a defense.

 

[Bamabuzzard]

Fiutak nails it (from today's 'Cavalcade of Whimsy'):

Good one 'Audio. He's right. The HUNHO has found a "glitch" and exploited it beyond belief. So it is only right that the defenses find a glitch and do the same. They know with today's sue happy society ain't no ref going to question an "injury" by a player. So they can do it all day long and there's nothing they can do about it.

 

[USCBAMA]

The only thing I don't like about the HUNH offenses is how refs seem to forget to call procedural penalties or false starts against these teams. It's like they get a different rule book then teams like Bama. The HUNHO may not be against the rules but they all get away with breaking the rules on almost every play. I see things like illegal motion, illegal shift and false starts on almost every down when I'm watching a HUNHO and I don't understand why they get to play with a different set of rules. What happened to having to be set for 1 full second before the ball is snapped? A Bama lineman sneezes and he is called for a false start yet time after time HUNHO will still have WR walking towards the line when the ball is snapped and a flag is rarely thrown.

I've got no problem with HUNHO but, they should have to play by the same rules as every other offense; you know, the rules that are already in the book. I honestly believe that refs have been instructed to be more lenient to HUNHO. That's the only thing that explains why the refs seem to forget about these rules for HUNH teams yet are more then happy to call it against other teams.

Exactly! If they’d enforce the motion/procedure rules, and the substitution rules and the huddle rules it would help level the playing field. Here are some rules that, if enforced properly, would balance out the HUNH offenses.

Legal Substitutions
ARTICLE 2. A legal substitute may replace a player or fill a player vacancy provided none of the following restrictions is violated:

c. (2). A departing player must immediately leave the field of play, including the end zones. A departing player who leaves the huddle or his position within three seconds, after a substitute becomes a player, is considered to have left immediately.

PENALTY For a dead-ball foul: Five yards from the succeeding spot. For a live-ball foul: Five yards from the previous spot.

e. While in the process of substitution or simulated substitution, Team A is prohibited from rushing quickly to the line of scrimmage with the obvious attempt of creating a defensive disadvantage. If the ball is ready for play, the game officials will not permit the ball to be snapped until Team B has placed substitutes in position and replaced players have left the field of play. Team B must react promptly with its substitutes.

PENALTY—(First Offense)—Dead-ball foul. Delay of game on Team B for not completing its substitutions promptly, or delay of game on Team A for causing the play clock to expire. Five yards from the succeeding spot [S21]. The referee will then notify the head coach that any further use of this tactic will result in an unsportsmanlike conduct foul.
PENALTY—(Second or more offense)—Dead-ball foul, unsportsmanlike conduct. An official will sound his whistle immediately. 15 yards from the succeeding spot [S27].

ARTICLE 3. a. Team A may not break the huddle with more than 11 players nor keep more than 11 players in the huddle or in a formation for more than three seconds. Officials shall stop the action whether or not the ball has been snapped.

PENALTY Dead-ball foul. Five yards at the succeeding spot. [S22]

Shift and False Start
ARTICLE 2. a. Shift. After a huddle (Rule 2-14-1) or shift (Rule 2-22-1) and before the snap, all Team A players must come to an absolute stop and remain stationary in their positions for at least one full second before the ball is snapped, without movement of the feet, body, head or arms (A.R. 7-1-2-I).

5. The offensive team never coming to a one-second stop prior to the snap after the ball is ready for play (A.R. 7-1-2-IV).

PENALTY—[a-d] Dead-ball foul: Five yards from the succeeding spot. [S7 and S19 or S20].

Examples:

After a huddle or shift, all Team A players come to a stop and remain stationary for one second. Then, before the snap, two or more simultaneously change their positions. RULING: All 11 Team A players
must again stop for one second before the snap, otherwise it is a liveball foul at the snap for an illegal shift. Penalty—Five yards from the previous spot (Rule 2-22-1).

Ten Team A players shift while A1 remains stationary. A1 then starts moving backward before one second elapses and the ball is snapped. RULING: If A1, who moved, did not halt with the other Team A players for one second before the snap, it is a dead-ball foul at the snap for a false start. Penalty—Five yards from the succeeding spot.

Team A is in a no-huddle offense and is moving to the line when the ball is made ready for play. Although some players settle into their positions and stop, at least one player never stops and is still moving when the ball is snapped. RULING: Dead-ball foul--false start, since Team A never satisfied the one-second rule before the snap. Officials should shut the play down and penalize Team A five yards.

Just enforce the stinkin' rules already on the books and this is a moot issue.