I might have heard Danielson wrong but I think I heard him say Auburn at times substitutes the entire defensive line at a time. Not just on an individual basis.
JessN: Auburn wrap-up: Another miracle finish, because Alabama couldn’t finish
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I might have heard Danielson wrong but I think I heard him say Auburn at times substitutes the entire defensive line at a time. Not just on an individual basis.
I believe that November compares very favorably to December/playoffs in the NFL. Everyone is worn down, and teams have to adjust. I'm sure we do too, in some way. But I think that's where the tweaking needs to come in at. Not only for the sake of the physical abilities of the players, but also in our self-evaluation of game plans/play calling.
Being beat up is relative. A tired O-line vs. a tired D-line is a wash. I had no problem with the play calling as the objective is to wear down the defense. I would agree more with what you are saying but the depth in talent is obscene. If the defensive scheme is so complex that kids cannot learn it easy enough to get on the field that is an issue. Too many good players are sitting on the sidelines. A good plan plus great talent should be more than enough to overcome any obstacle.
I think that is fair, and I am glad you feel free to call it like you see it. As he said, he is ultimately the one who is accountable. No one should deify him.
If what happened in this game was really the norm against Auburn under Saban, I would be completely on board. I just do not think it is. Even though the numbers and results may indicate a November or an Auburn trend, I do not see it as a real trend. I see individual games with different results due to different circumstances that do not match up with what happened in this game.
Once Saban had his system in place, and players that were buying in, this one is the first that I really believe we did not play them well. That belief includes the Cam game. If what happened in this game happens repeatedly I may change my mind, but for me the trend will have to develop from here, not from the past.
I do think he will change some things. I just hope he stays true to his core principles.
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As far as schemes go, I don't have a huge problem with our defense's performance in November. It's more of the offense that seems to grow stale. I believe teams figure out our tendencies and we're not adjusting. Whether that's out of stubbornness or something else I'm not sure.
I do know when the bowl games roll around, we look fantastic on both sides of the ball because we're refreshed - physically, mentally, and schematically.
I agree. The further into the season we don't run anywhere near the diverse offense we do from August to October. Especially our running game. We seem to stop attacking the edges and try to keep it in between the tackles.
I wish they would have thrown deep to Cooper a few more times. He was schooling anyone who was attempting to cover him.
We just didn't put the ball in the air near enough in this game in general. Once we got the dropsies under control, we threw it on them pretty much whenever and however we wanted. I don't know if we were afraid to get into a scoring fest or what, but if we had aired it out more and been able to extend that lead in the 4th quarter, I think they would have been toast. I just don't think their back 7 is very good and we should have abused them, especially when they were all but daring us to do so late in the game. I was especially disappointed that we didn't see the flea flicker to Bell at some point in the 4th quarter. The perfect time to do it (IMO) would have been after we made the defensive stop right behind the 99-yard bomb. Back to back bombs for TDs and the boogs might have quit right there.
Saban is 0-5 against Auburn teams that have won 75% or more of their games in one year. That's a 9-3 record or better.
Does Alabama have to hope for Auburn to stink in order to win the game?
I am sure the coaches are already doing it, but here is what I would like to see. I havent researched it nor do I intend to do so maybe some of you guys can do it for sake of the discussion.
Excluding the 2007 year, I would like to see what our average score is by month from 2008-2013. Then I would like to know what our overall average score is for this same time period. The reason I am asking is that anecdotally it appears that if we score 30+ points we win going away (say a 10+ average margin of victory). However, if we are below 30 pts per game we have a close game and maybe even a loss and this is especially true for Auburn. Our gameplan last weekend should have been to score 30+ come by whatever means necessary then shut the game down.
There is enough body of work to analyze this trend now. My point is to me regardless of what shape the team is in we need to adjust our practice and gameplans in November to get to 30+ per game. And for some reason we dont seem to do that. Even when our team is most beat up we try to become even more physical in November.
We can listen to the coachspeak all we want but I agree with Jess that we can look on the field and in the stands and on the scoreboard and tell there is more effort put into the LSU game than any game thereafter save the SEC Championship (if its against a Tebow UF). You simply cant argue with this proposition by looking at the results on the field after we play them. 3 of our wins against Auburn have been blowouts because their team was terrible or had given up. If they have any semblance of something to play for they have beaten us. Pure and simple.
If UT reverts back to top 15 status, half of our conference will be against top 10-15 talents teams going forward possibly more on any given year, we have to figure out a way to sustain championship performance throughout that gauntlet. I dont what the complete answer is, but I dont think we take advantage of our depth near enough earlier in the season when its obvious we have control of the game. Seems to me doing so that we could rotate a competitive 3 deep at every position.
Excluding the 2007 year, I would like to see what our average score is by month from 2008-2013. Then I would like to know what our overall average score is for this same time period. The reason I am asking is that anecdotally it appears that if we score 30+ points we win going away (say a 10+ average margin of victory). However, if we are below 30 pts per game we have a close game and maybe even a loss and this is especially true for Auburn. Our gameplan last weekend should have been to score 30+ come by whatever means necessary then shut the game down.
There is enough body of work to analyze this trend now. My point is to me regardless of what shape the team is in we need to adjust our practice and gameplans in November to get to 30+ per game. And for some reason we dont seem to do that. Even when our team is most beat up we try to become even more physical in November.
We can listen to the coachspeak all we want but I agree with Jess that we can look on the field and in the stands and on the scoreboard and tell there is more effort put into the LSU game than any game thereafter save the SEC Championship (if its against a Tebow UF). You simply cant argue with this proposition by looking at the results on the field after we play them. 3 of our wins against Auburn have been blowouts because their team was terrible or had given up. If they have any semblance of something to play for they have beaten us. Pure and simple.
If UT reverts back to top 15 status, half of our conference will be against top 10-15 talents teams going forward possibly more on any given year, we have to figure out a way to sustain championship performance throughout that gauntlet. I dont what the complete answer is, but I dont think we take advantage of our depth near enough earlier in the season when its obvious we have control of the game. Seems to me doing so that we could rotate a competitive 3 deep at every position.
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Just curious. But what do you think the problem is? That Saban simply doesn't prepare for the IB as much as he should?
Personally I don't know what the problem or problems is/are. To be honest I haven't even paid attention to the statistics (regarding Auburn) seeing that we've won three out of the last four titles. It seems 2010 wasn't just an "Auburn" problem but a total lack of focus the entire year. We now know that the entire team wasn't focused and had an entitlement mentality. We'd lost two games during the season before ever playing Auburn.
But either way since we are going to discuss it the question begs itself to be asked. What's causing the issue in November that we seem to have?
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I honestly don't know. I think Saban is eminently more equipped to figure that out than me. My only fear regarding this is, in my experience when dealing with highly successful people who have a system (process) that works the overwhelming majority of the time, that on the rare occasion when it doesn't work, their answer is to just do what they've been doing "better."
The only specific suggestion I have is to quit scheduling D-1AA teams the week before Auburn and take the week off. I feel the problem is emotional in nature. I think the team is being forced into the same mold that is in place for the other 11 games -- businesslike, almost robotic. I love to see that against Arkansas, Ole Miss, Chick-fil-A games, bowl week, etc. I don't think it works against Auburn. I don't know whether Saban likes it or not, but emotion/passion is such a key component in college football that I think you have to leverage off that point sometimes. The coaches that try to do it every week too often end up over-doing it, or losing a game in one of the "non-emotional" weeks, but once a year is certainly fine. What I wonder is if Saban simply isn't able to be the rah-rah guy on demand. And if he can't, I don't know what he can do differently.
So you think that Auburn is winning because they want it more - are more fired up? Did you watch the game on Saturday? Did you watch the game in 2010? Neither of those games was lost beacuse Auburn was more fired up. Alabama beat itself in both of those games.
I do not care for a second what his record is from his LSU days.
He's 4-3 vs. Auburn here. Two of those losses came to teams with a combined record of 21-1 when we played them. They were definitely the better team in 2010. I don't give a rat's behind what the talent levels were. They were a better TEAM. Anyone that disputes that is delusional. This season, yes we should have won. We WERE the better team this year but fell short vs. a #4 ranked team on their field. In 2007, again, they were the better team by a WIDE margin.
Forgive me if I'm not upset with those results. Frankly, its disturbing to see someone so respected and knowledgeable as yourself that is upset with that. Do adjustments need to be made? Sure. Nick Saban will handle that better than anyone could. But if we're talking strictly results, something Saban loathes, then anyone disappointed needs to check themselves. JMO. Respectfully.
First, I deleted your two posts above because they didn't address the topic. You won't be using this thread to take ad hominem shots at me and if you continue to do it, you'll get some time off.
To the actual point in this particular post, Auburn has been in full control of the emotional tenor of this game at least four times since Saban has been here -- the three losses plus 2009. Whether Alabama "beat itself" in any of those games is a separate issue.
Separate, but also relevant. It is very obvious that "emotional tenor" was only a single of many factors in these games, and it doesn't come close to the top 10, IMO.
You have your opinion, I have mine - and they are a mile apart. I'll leave it at that.
I understand the love for "The Process," and to a large degree, I share it. But I also worked in sales for a few years and at some point you have to deliver no matter what your process is. Understand that we're talking about a relatively narrow issue -- the "delivery" problem here is limited to just one team. The problem there, is if you don't beat that team, the thing you've established as your end goal (NC) is probably out the window. The last time Alabama lost that game and still either advanced to the SEC Championship Game or the main SEC bowl, pre-SECCG, was 1989 when Alabama lost to Auburn and still went to the Sugar. If it ever happened a second time, I wasn't alive for it.
The fact it's against your chief rival, though, obviously magnifies the effect.
A couple of follow-ups: I included the LSU numbers mostly just for the sample size, in case anyone thought the Alabama figures were too limited. And the 2007 Auburn team was only one game better than Alabama at the time the game was played (7-4 AU, 6-5 UA), so I wouldn't say they were better by a "WIDE margin."
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In those 5 losses, 2 of those teams have been undefeated teams who won 2 SEC Championships, and a NC. This year Auburn has 1 loss and, and is the favorite to win the SEC Championship again. In 2007, we were a 6 loss team that was totally overmatched by every good team we played that year. In 2000, he lost to AU who won the SEC West. Every AU team that CNS has lost to except 2007 won the SEC West at the minimum, and every team except this year, AU had a better record that CNS' team did.
4 out of 5 times, CNS has struggled with better teams that are better than his. This is just not a surprising thing to me.
Do these facts not matter? Should we expect CNS to beat AU every year, regardless of whether his team is not as good as them?
Jess, I see your point of Auburn being in control of the emotional tenor of this series, but since 2008, when Bama reemerged on the national scene, I don't see how that is going to be avoidable. Bama starts every season now (or at least as long as CNS is in charge) with National Championship aspirations. Since 2008, Auburn has been either in rebuilding mode, or in grease fire mode. Even in 2010, AU started that season with little hype, other than the glow of a good recruiting class in Feb. of that year. In the 2010 IB, they played that 1st half much like we played in this year's IB, tight, sloppy, some would say not to lose. They obviously corrected things in that game, but my point is that the team that enters this game with more on the line seems to play down to competition. Bama had much more on the line this season coming into the IB, despite the winner take all aspect. Bama is the national brand, the flagship of the conference currently, the high profile coach, the dynasty, etc. Once again, the team with more pressure, more to lose played down to the level of the opponent. Same with the 2009 and 2010 IB's. I just don't think it is necessarily a flaw, or hole in CNS's process to how the team approaches and prepares for this game in particular. I believe that CNS is conservative, gameplan-wise, in all of these big games. There have been numerous examples where his conservative nature, especially offensively during some games, have almost come back to bite him (2010 BCSCG against Texas, 2011 LSU reg. season game). If anything, I'd say CNS's approach regarding the teams' emotions can be lacking at times regardless of the opponent, not just against AU.
On another note, I'll say again that this Bama team had flaws, or issues, that have been discussed throughout the season. Inconsistent O-line play, inconsistent DB play, lack of focus at times, injuries, etc. This all lead to the IB loss, and AU had a team good enough to exploit some weaknesses and keep the game close. The only trend I see regarding how this game is going to play out is that with Gus running his offense at AU, it seems to be feast or famine. If Gus can identify a dynamic athlete to play QB, they are dangerous despite the opponent. But, Gus has had numerous seasons running the offense there, and he hasn't been able to recruit and identify a QB there with great consistency. It's no secret that dynamic athletes at the QB position give CNS and CKS some trouble regarding gameplanning a defense. I think that we're seeing, through the types of athletes they are recruiting to play D going forward, what their response will be concerning the HUNH and veer offenses being operated at various conference schools now....
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