K State showed how to stop ANY option team: Sound, fundamental, disciplined defense. It works, even with less athletic athletes.
They just couldn't get it done on offense and ST.
They just couldn't get it done on offense and ST.
Game Thread: Barn vs. Kansas State (was, CFN article)
- Thread starter Bama Lee
- Start date
A couple of things:
As much as I can't stand the barn, we can't have them lose to a 2nd-rate Big 12 team. We don't know how this new committee is going to work, but a barn loss tonight probably hurts SEC perception, which may prove important.
I also wouldn't read too much into the barn's offensive struggles tonight. Every team had bad games and the barn had a bad one tonight. If we see other teams pick up on what KS did tonight and continue to frustrate their offense, I'd feel a little better that maybe their offense has been figured out.
I'm not necessarily concerned about the barn one way or the other right now. I couldn't care less about how many wins or losses the barn has so long as one of their losses is to us. A lot can change between now and late November. I'm more worried with us. Bama has a lot of improving to do for me to feel comfortable with them. The test begins Saturday.
Finally, so far this season I don't see a dominant team. We may wind up with a national champion with 2 losses.
As much as I can't stand the barn, we can't have them lose to a 2nd-rate Big 12 team. We don't know how this new committee is going to work, but a barn loss tonight probably hurts SEC perception, which may prove important.
I also wouldn't read too much into the barn's offensive struggles tonight. Every team had bad games and the barn had a bad one tonight. If we see other teams pick up on what KS did tonight and continue to frustrate their offense, I'd feel a little better that maybe their offense has been figured out.
I'm not necessarily concerned about the barn one way or the other right now. I couldn't care less about how many wins or losses the barn has so long as one of their losses is to us. A lot can change between now and late November. I'm more worried with us. Bama has a lot of improving to do for me to feel comfortable with them. The test begins Saturday.
Finally, so far this season I don't see a dominant team. We may wind up with a national champion with 2 losses.
I agree I think as a fan base we tend to worry a little to much about how to stop these kind of offenses. I know we have given up some huge plays in the past couple of years to these type offenses but at the end of the game we have won our fair share of these battles. Take last year's iron bowl no matter how you look at things, if we get one stinking yard towards the end of the game we win. If you limit the big plays you have a chance.
I'll bet that FG kicker for K. State feels real bad tonight.
K. State played good enough to win this one. The Barn really played bad enough to lose this game.
How can K. State stop that offense and we seem to be unable to. Is it because they face this type of offense much more often in the Big 12-2?
K. State played good enough to win this one. The Barn really played bad enough to lose this game.
How can K. State stop that offense and we seem to be unable to. Is it because they face this type of offense much more often in the Big 12-2?
Possibly. I would imagine they'd have a much tougher time stopping our offense since they're not built that way.
I think there's too many variables, and that's exacerbated by chronic inexperience within Alabama's defense (due to players perpetually leaving early). Alabama's fantastic defense in 2011 gave up 21 points and 341 yards to an FCS team. That's the most points they gave up the entire season. It doesn't come as any surprise that they were running the triple option. Does that mean that Alabama didn't play sound, fundamental, disciplined defense that year? They only gave up 8.2 points per game that year. So, clearly, the issue is not born of a lack of fundamental's, it's other factors and Saban explained it leading up to the Georgia Southern game what those issues were.
Nick Saban said that it's hard to prepare for something that the team doesn't usually face, and doesn't face in practice. A lot of it really is that simple. Of course, you can make some adjustments but I think that comes with some sacrifice. If Alabama gets better at one thing, they're likely to get worse at something else.
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What'd y'all think Of the big 12-2 refs? KSU had 0 penalties. I understand that Snyder coached teams are very disciplined, but I thought there were some bad non-calls both ways. I thought they may have gotten away with some holding, as well as some blocks in the back on the punt returns, and they almost certainly could have nailed us for pass interference 3 or 4 more times.
Worse than the SEC refs?
Worse than the SEC refs?
No actually I think they were better in some respects. I think seeing these read option spread HUNH teams more often helps them officiate the LOS better. However I do think they could have flagged Auburn a couple more time for PI. Overall they did a good job of not letting AU get into Nascar mode. I saw Gus yell at the refs early on to speed up and they would have none of it.
As far as KSU on defense, I liked their approach. It appeared the defense had a key on the QB and RB every play and each player was tackled most of the time even if they didn't have the ball. I think that is key to stopping their offense.
Also I don't CAP is a good at running through traffic as Mason was. I think if you can clog up the middle somewhat like they did tonight their offense loses a lot of its effectiveness.
As far as KSU on defense, I liked their approach. It appeared the defense had a key on the QB and RB every play and each player was tackled most of the time even if they didn't have the ball. I think that is key to stopping their offense.
Also I don't CAP is a good at running through traffic as Mason was. I think if you can clog up the middle somewhat like they did tonight their offense loses a lot of its effectiveness.
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The point was that there is no secret to stopping the spread option. It only takes a sound, disciplined defense. Go back and look at that *U game again and you'll see that breakdowns in the fundamentals lead to at least 14 points or more for the Barn. A player out of place here, a blown coverage there. The spread option forces you to cover the entire field. If one man breaks his assignment on one play and gets it right the next only to have his teammate miss his then these small breakdowns build up (and the big ones like breaking to cover the run too soon and giving up a pass TD only need to happen once to make a huge difference). Did Alabama's defense play sound, fundamental, disciplined defense last year? Yes. Did small breakdowns in that cause *U to win that game last year? You bet it did.
K-State got away with a lot of holds. Auburn got away with a few PI's. I guess it washes, but was not impressed with that officiating crew.
I think there was a bad snap that just messed with the timing of that kick..It was a bad snap for sure..He still should have got it though..
I don't know if it is so much that we struggle with those types of offenses. In most of our losses in the last 5 years have come from missed opportunities and turnovers.
2009: 14-0
2010: 10-3
South Carolina: Garcia played game of his life tip your hat.
LSU: Key turnovers cost us that game.
*U: Blew 21 point lead and fumble 20 yards straight into endzone so turnovers proved costly.
2011: 12-1
LSU: Missed field goal after missed field goal. Enough said
2012: 13-1
Texas A&M: Johnny Football but also turnovers and even offsides call on punt at en of game to give us another chance.
2013: 12-2
*U: Missed field goals, 4th down conversion, and I'm not going to say it but the end.
OU: Trevor Knight had the game of his life, but turnovers played a big part and another missed field goal.
Interesting that almost every loss we have had has been because I turnovers or missed field goals. Other than the South Carolina game, we beat ourselves in most of the games we have actually lost. Don't worry that's the way the ball bounces but don't think that teams are running us out o the stadium we have been in every game down to the last drive even OU. Don't let the media tell you that we are a team that can't stop no huddle teams or are getting routed by them... It's just not true. We are a play or two away (going back to 2008 with Florida) from having a chance to play for 5 national titles in 6 years. Now it didn't work out that way but we were in the conversation going into to the final games I the year. We are obviously doing something right. We just had mistakes and beat ourself most of the time.
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Great stuff Coach & I agree 100% with ya..The Barn always plays us harder more physical than any team we play(including the NC Games), but, when we take care of business & don't hand them key turnovers or miss FG's that we should make..We usually beat The Barn..To their credit..They capitalize on our mistakes & makes up pay when we lose our focus..That's what they do best & are the best in college football as a matter of fact..When you make mistakes against The Barn..They make you pay for them..No doubts about that at all..JMO
I won't argue with that point. But, this is all with the backdrop of the fact that the Alabama defense, otherwise capable of completely shutting down offenses, is mortal against an offense they are unfamiliar with. This gives a team like Auburn, or Texas A&M a chance to let mistakes be the difference in the game.
That goes back to the point about experience. I absolutely believe Alabama wins that game if Sunseri is healthy. He, despite only being on campus for three years was one of the most experienced players Alabama had on defense, and one of their best tacklers. This only matters though, if Alabama's defense overall is mortal.
For instance though, Kansas State still gave up 359 yards, it wasn't a stellar performance by any stretch. Going back to 2011, Alabama's defense averaged 184 yards, and only gave up 140 yards to Auburn. That was Gus' offense! 140 yards...
Anyway, yes I agree that small breakdowns can be the difference when Alabama faces an offense that they are ill suited to match up with. I just wanted to point out that there are other issues that are having an impact, and those are not necessarily indicative of there being anything wrong with the defense.
I don't think we are far away from each other in what we are saying. I aagree that the "novelty" of Gus' approach to the spread option is an issue. Sunseri would have made a huge difference. Our defense being a hair quicker/more nimble would have made a difference, especially on the edges. Lots of little things. That's why CNS gets paid a lot - to take care of the little things. I believe he does and will get it right more often than not.
Though I don't necessarily like Jesse Palmer he hit the nail right on the head last night when he said the reason KState was giving the war chickens fits was due to their DL'men winning their matchups. They were only playing 6 and 7 people in the box all night. But the difference was they were winning matchups and playing disciplined football.
I think that's basically why we have so much trouble with these type offenses. We are not fundamentally sound in one on one tackling, our discipline isn't consistent and we're not winning matchups in the trenches. But if Kstate can do it there is absolutely no excuse why we can't. Our second string is just as talented as Kstate's first team defense. No excuses.
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