What Gun Reform would you suggest?

[Bama Reb]

I have never owned a gun and that is unlikely to change. In a more ideal society I would favor background checks, a reasonable waiting period, etc., but because we live in the degenerating society we do, there are at least 2 reasons I don't favor any changes to the current laws:

The gun control advocates who matter: politicians, academia and the mainstream media, have shown they will not relent on any cultural issue, even after they gain the original concession. The left (I'm apolitical) is relentless. Homosexual supporters said just a few short years ago that all they wanted was civil unions. Now we have the Fed gov't forcing the acceptance of boys showering with girls, with the real prospect of sanctioned polygamy, bestiality, etc. not far away. IMO, the same would happen with gun control. It is likely that most gun control advocate foot soldiers would be reasonable, but those in positions of power have proven they can not be trusted. Thus, I can understand NRA types fighting tooth and nail for every inch of ground.

The other reason is that this country has literally hundreds of millions of guns and it would be impossible to make a meaningful dent in that number without a gov't ruthlessness that, thankfully, has yet to be manifested. So, there is no way the criminal element would not still be able to easily acquire guns. But just as importantly is the benefit of criminals not knowing if their prospective victim has a gun. Not only that, but guns are a great equalizer. If there were no guns, then the weaker such as women and the elderly would be much more vulnerable. Criminals have already become much bolder. If they knew their prospective victim had no gun that boldness would only increase. Even though I have no gun, I'm grateful that any potential burglar does not know that.

I've been saying this for years.

 

[2003TIDE]

Despite the fact that gun owners have 'given' over and over (massive legislative changes in 1934, 1968, and 1986), the gunophobes keep wanting more - I think it's natural to be cautious about even more restrictions.

I hear you. So are you of the opinion that the gun violence issues in the US aren't fixable?

 

[G-VilleTider]

Doesn't matter. Until Republicans are willing to sit down and actually talk about things all this that's been going on will continue.


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That's a good point. Still though at least come to the table. There needs to be something. Right now, there's nothing.


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Food for thought. Fewer than 400 people are killed per year from rifles in this country (as of 2011, stats are lagging, but I seriously doubt any change is statistically relevant), while over 500 are killed by hammers and over 600 by knives, 12,000 by drunk drivers and almost 200,000 by medical errors. The media and certain politicians are pulling the hood over your eyes and squashing rationale thought by blinding people to the forest of preventable deaths by focusing on a tiny sapling.

IOW, there is NO "assault rifle" problem in this country. Focus needs to be put on terrorists and criminals who will always find means to their intentions, not on the millions of law abiding gun owners.

 

[Skeeterpop]

More harsh gun violence sentencing will help.

 

[crimsonaudio]

I hear you. So are you of the opinion that the gun violence issues in the US aren't fixable?

No, I think they're fixable, but trying to figure out what new bandaid to use instead of attempting to heal the wound won't get us where we want, anyway. The reality is there are some serious cultural issues that drive a lot of this gun violence, but no one wants to deal with those.

And to be fair, I don't see gun violence in the US as nearly as bad as some do. Firearm deaths barely register in leading causes of detain the US, and most don't seem to realize that roughly 2/3s of all gun deaths in the US are suicides. ~11,000 homicides via firearms / year in a country of 330,000,000 is a tiny amount (0.003% of all deaths are homicides via firearm).

I'm of the belief that if we actually enforced all the gun laws we already have and quit giving people minimum sentences when firearms are used, those numbers could change.

 

[formersoldier71]

One thing that's not mentioned is that it's almost impossible to control a weapon as light as an AR in full auto. I was **, but my son was Army and, when he went through the basic for officers coming out of ROTC, they were all given the opportunity to qualify FA. Nobody could hit reliably enough to qualify.

When I went through basic, our M16's had the full auto selection as opposed to 3 round burst. We were allowed to fire full auto one time and that exercise was designed to show us the folly of doing so.

That's the reason the army went to 3 shot burst, except for suppressive fire.

Even with suppressive fire weapons, such as the M249 (SAW), we were trained to fire in bursts. Squeeze trigger, say "I love sex", release trigger, repeat...

 

[HartselleTider]

I hear you. So are you of the opinion that the gun violence issues in the US aren't fixable?

Completely and totally fixable might be a little ambitious, but we could do better. However, we're not ever going to make it better and tame gun violence in the U.S. by attempting to trample on law abiding citizens Constitutional rights. You can't get liberal politicians to have an honest discussion about it. It's the Democrats voting base that commit the most gun crimes.

Do some research on countries like Guatemala that have some of the toughest and most strict gun laws in the world, yet still have one of the highest violent crime rates and homicide rates of anywhere in the world. Weak judicial systems and lack of severe enough punishment are always the enablers. Violent criminals know they're unlikely to be caught, or punished even if they are.

Gangs and drugs. It's basically Chicago of Central America.

 

[Bazza]

More harsh gun violence sentencing will help.

Or................keeping the repeat offenders IN prison....instead of letting them back OUT..........over and over.....

 

[dvldog]

Cain killed able for no good reason. No amount of law is going to change human nature. We all need to be able to defend ourselves. Weapons come and go. But that fact never changes and cannot be legislated against.

 

[JBama_in_PCOLA]

Food for thought. Fewer than 400 people are killed per year from rifles in this country (as of 2011, stats are lagging, but I seriously doubt any change is statistically relevant), while over 500 are killed by hammers and over 600 by knives, 12,000 by drunk drivers and almost 200,000 by medical errors. The media and certain politicians are pulling the hood over your eyes and squashing rationale thought by blinding people to the forest of preventable deaths by focusing on a tiny sapling.

IOW, there is NO "assault rifle" problem in this country. Focus needs to be put on terrorists and criminals who will always find means to their intentions, not on the millions of law abiding gun owners.

I believe you. I'm not here to say all guns are bad, either. Guns are meant to kill and that's it. There needs to be something to help with that, background checks at least. We have to have a license to drive why not gun ownership.


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[JBama_in_PCOLA]

AR-15 is not an automatic weapon

Semi but really and truly I am talking about weapons period.


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[JBama_in_PCOLA]

What do you mean? Everything that guy did was against the law except buying a gun. Do you really think that stealing a gun would be a big stumbling block for a guy about to commit such a thing as mass murder?

No I do not. I still believe we as people need to be limited somehow.


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[crimsonaudio]

No I do not. I still believe we as people need to be limited somehow.

I'm fine with expanded BG checks. I also wish the different systems FBI, BATFE) could communicate better / more efficiently.

I'm not otherwise fine with us being 'limited' - not sure why my rights should be limited.

 

[JBama_in_PCOLA]

I'm fine with expanded BG checks. I also wish the different systems FBI, BATFE) could communicate better / more efficiently.

I'm not otherwise fine with us being 'limited' - not sure why my rights should be limited.

That's what I meant by limitations though. There should be a BG check at least. Too many people against that. If there were checks in place we wouldn't be talking about that today. Well, probably not talking about this.


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[crimsonaudio]

That's what I meant by limitations though. There should be a BG check at least. Too many people against that. If there were checks in place we wouldn't be talking about that today. Well, probably not talking about this.

Well, you're incorrect - he not only passed the background check to purchase the rifle (which goes through the FBI's NICS system) but he was also a licensed security guard, which also requires background checks.

IOW, this is one of those that was likely just unavoidable unless new laws were put in place, and I'm not sure what those laws would be...

 

[JBama_in_PCOLA]

Well, you're incorrect - he not only passed the background check to purchase the rifle (which goes through the FBI's NICS system) but he was also a licensed security guard, which also requires background checks.

IOW, this is one of those that was likely just unavoidable unless new laws were put in place, and I'm not sure what those laws would be...

Then I've been fed wrong information then.


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[crimsonaudio]

https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/nics

Every person who buys from an FFL dealer has to pass a NICS check after they fill out their 4473.

 

[2003TIDE]

A few ideas. Anything semi-auto or hand gun requires a federal license. Make it a very rigorous background check. Permit has to be renewed ever 10yrs. It is good in all US states and territories. You can walk into any store and buy a gun with it no questions asked. Any private sales no questions asked. You have any legal issues said permit goes away. And guns get confiscated if you have them without a valid permit outside your home or property (covers I want them for home defense argument.) Same thing with concealed carry. Go to nation wide permit. Do away with the hodgepodge of state laws allowing or disallowing concealed carry. No restrictions on strictly hunting guns ( bolt action rifles/break action shotguns) as long as you don't have a violent criminal history.

Thoughts?

 

[Skeeterpop]

Then I've been fed wrong information then.


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You were fed wrong information . As are most who are just yelling out their back side and dont know what they are talking about. No additional checks would have kept him from buying guns. He was clear as you or I. The fact the FBI investigated him and was able to take no further action meant he was fine to purchase.

 

[TIDE-HSV]

When I went through basic, our M16's had the full auto selection as opposed to 3 round burst. We were allowed to fire full auto one time and that exercise was designed to show us the folly of doing so.

Even with suppressive fire weapons, such as the M249 (SAW), we were trained to fire in bursts. Squeeze trigger, say "I love sex", release trigger, repeat...

Exactly what my son said the object lesson was for...