QB Competition 2018

[B1GTide]

*You were specifically addressing the quarterback position so I'm discussing it from that position. I completely understand other areas of the team play into it as well.

**Just as Tua's natural passing ability is obviously better than Hurts'. Hurts' pure athleticism is obviously better than Tua's. Tua's running ability is effective in spots. But no way he would be better than Hurts if QB runs were a consistent and primary component of our offense. Outside of Hurts' superior overall athleticism, Tua's size and smallish frame wouldn't last through an entire season if QB runs were a major component of the offense.

What I continue to ask myself - with your RBs, why the heck would you want to run an RPO offense. It is stupid, IMO.

8 games into the season Alabama had 1400 yards rushing before first contact. Let that sink in. Those are unprecedented numbers. I don't know where you stood at the end of the year, but Bo's TD run yesterday - he was untouched. Your o-line was not just good at run blocking this year - it was great - the best in the country. And you are running an RPO offense?

What you need is a pocket passer and a run first offense. Period. If Jalen can handle the role as a pocket passer, great. If he can't, move on.

 

[mlh]

I've been saying this for a while, but it certainly seems to be coming true. I felt Hurts wasn't used properly throughout the season and I thought that Daboll's play calling would catch up to Hurts.

Now, that doesn't mean that Hurts is without his faults, but Hurts is a tool and it is Daboll's job to put him to best use. It isn't a question of whether or not Hurts can make certain throws, because it's Daboll that is asking him to do that. The question rather is can Hurts move the ball? I think we've seen enough to say yes. You have to call plays that make best use of the weapons you have on the field, not draw up plays that in theory a hypothetical quarterback might make. Sure Tua might have executed Daboll's gameplan better, but Hurts was the quarterback that was in the game. The complete lack of a lot of shorter stuff throughout the season, and running Hurts too often seems to have caught up to Alabama. I don't think it makes sense to change quarterbacks because your OC isn't doing a very good job calling plays. It's hard to argue that the play calling situation Hurts has had to deal with the past couple of seasons has really given him the best chance to succeed.

Think about this though, Ridley doesn't get mugged on every play and Hurts might have thrown for 100+ more yards and had at least one more passing TD. We might not be complaining about the play calling or Hurts in that scenario. On the flip side, it was happening...

I think this is the best analysis of the Jalen/Tua discussion. I couldn't agree more, KrAzY3.

 

[Bamabuzzard]

I wasn't aware we were making a decision about a QB in a vacuum for fun?


I think I'm going to bow out of this. I see the other side I just strongly disagree. I don't think I'm going to change anyones mind. I hope Tua gets a shot and I hope the best QB gets the job. Don't care who it is as long as both get a shot.

I think you see JH as THE problem and simply are dancing around it. If you want to discuss the offense as a whole then you need to start discussing the OL development, playcalling, style of offense being run and many other aspects of the game. But it seems you're talking out of both sides of your mouth by on one hand not wanting to discuss the QB position "in a vacuum" yet continually coming straight back to Jalen Hurts as the center of the conversation without wanting to discuss other variables that directly impact the QB position.

Either way, I'm done corresponding with you on this particular topic.

 

[tusks_n_raider]

What I continue to ask myself - with your RBs, why the heck would you want to run an RPO offense. It is stupid, IMO.

8 games into the season Alabama had 1400 yards rushing before first contact. Let that sink in. Those are unprecedented numbers. I don't know where you stood at the end of the year, but Bo's TD run yesterday - he was untouched. Your o-line was not just good at run blocking this year - it was great - the best in the country. And you are running an RPO offense?

What you need is a pocket passer and a run first offense. Period. If Jalen can handle the role as a pocket passer, great. If he can't, move on.

I imagine that most of that before contact stat is severely skewed by Jalen runs where he ran to the sideline or ad llbbed up the vacated middle in addition to what ever runs where Damien cut back into a lane that other RB's on the team wouldn't have been able to do. Some was also probably garbage stats in those blowouts against those creampuff teams.

When we faced half way decent D-lines we got hardly any push from the OL. It was tough sledding other than Damien. Our OL doesn't pass the eye test against good teams. Not consistently and not when other backs are in the game besides Damien Harris.

 

[B1GTide]

I imagine that most of that before contact stat is severely skewed by Jalen runs where he ran to the sideline or ad llbbed up the vacated middle in addition to what ever runs where Damien cut back into a lane that other RB's on the team wouldn't have been able to do. Some was also probably garbage stats in those blowouts against those creampuff teams.

When we faced half way decent D-lines we got hardly any push from the OL. It was tough sledding other than Damien. Our OL doesn't pass the eye test against good teams. Not consistently and not when other backs are in the game besides Damien Harris.

Sorry, but your rushing stats in those games tell another story. If you want to tell me that your o-line did a poor job in pass protection this year I would agree 100%, but in run blocking you are the best in the country.

 

[day-day]

It would not have made sense to change QB's this season but it might next season. It is such a tough call because Hurts has made so many great plays and seems to be a good leader; also, Tagovailoa still has little game experience. I like the idea of getting the ball to Bama's RB's, WR's and TE's though.

Hurts had some excellent long balls in the AU game and the defenders made the correct pass interference play on them to stop a potential score or long yardage catch. Other than that, Hurts did not pass so well or make the best decisions. I think an experienced Tagovailoa would be able to move the ball in the air better and he has good legs.

 

[tusks_n_raider]

Sorry, but your rushing stats in those games tell another story. If you want to tell me that your o-line did a poor job in pass protection this year I would agree 100%, but in run blocking you are the best in the country.

I guess I'll just have to respectfully agree to disagree with you on this.

I think it's a case of the RB's/Jalen making the OL look better than vice versa. These recent OL's have been nowhere near as good as the Pendry/Stoutland OL's from '08-'12.

We still have success because our skill players are insanely talented. They find a way to thrive despite just above average blocking.

I DO agree with you that we should have been a run 1st team as phenomenal as Damien Harris has been. The run blocking was overall better than the pass blocking too.....I agree with you there.

But this isn't the type of power OL that can line up and just physically road grade teams.

 

[KrAzY3]

I sure would like to have seen Tua come in last night. He couldn't have done any worse.

Yes, he could. That sort of thing is just plain football ignorant.

But I'd be very disappointed if the coaches don't at least give Tua a shot to win the job.

Of course you are, you've been saying this since before Tua took a snap at Alabama. Clearly, no bias at all on your part...

I'm not saying there won't be a QB competition in a spring. Tua has earned that right. But I am sick of people literally just waiting for Hurts to fail so they can harp on it. I find it deplorable and the motives questionable. No one wants to talk about Hurts saving the game against Miss. State either.

 

[BamaMoon]

What I continue to ask myself - with your RBs, why the heck would you want to run an RPO offense. It is stupid, IMO.

8 games into the season Alabama had 1400 yards rushing before first contact. Let that sink in. Those are unprecedented numbers. I don't know where you stood at the end of the year, but Bo's TD run yesterday - he was untouched. Your o-line was not just good at run blocking this year - it was great - the best in the country. And you are running an RPO offense?

What you need is a pocket passer and a run first offense. Period. If Jalen can handle the role as a pocket passer, great. If he can't, move on.

Man, you are making WAY too much sense! You got any OC experience???

 

[BamaMoon]

I guess I'll just have to respectfully agree to disagree with you on this.

I think it's a case of the RB's/Jalen making the OL look better than vice versa. These recent OL's have been nowhere near as good as the Pendry/Stoutland OL's from '08-'12.

We still have success because our skill players are insanely talented. They find a way to thrive despite just above average blocking.

I DO agree with you that we should have been a run 1st team as phenomenal as Damien Harris has been. The run blocking was overall better than the pass blocking too.....I agree with you there.

But this isn't the type of power OL that can line up and just physically road grade teams.

You are comparing us against us...he said the best in the country and he's comparing us against the rest. You both have a point, just in different perspectives.

 

[Just Win]

We can whistle through the graveyard, or we can just call it like it is. I've watched every game like all of you have. Hurts is not good in the passing game. He's average at best. He has his moments, but they are few and far between, and as Saban loves to say, the "consistency in performance" is not there from the passing phase of his game. We put him in as a true freshman because we had to, and he was able to do things that kept us winning games. We also had a once in a generation front 7 with great quality depth there, and also scored many points from defense and special teams. Down the stretch, our lack of converting 3rd downs, many times because our QB was quick to just tuck it and run, killed our defense due to exhaustion. Now our dilemma is that if we stick with Hurts for 2 more years (no, he's not going pro after next year - you think a single NFL team would draft him to play QB?), we'll likley have more QB's transfer again. It could even affect our recruiting of WR's who can't get balls thrown to them, and RB's who would like some of JH's carries. I know many other teams would love to have our "problems", but why do we keep playing a QB who we know is not a threat to throw it on the opposition, when we have one on the bench who can throw the ball much better and has much better pocket presence and field vision? What did JH have as a true freshman that TT doesn't have? Not saying that he's the magic wand, but he would at least keep the defense honest with the threat of the forward passing game.

Hey, it's basketball season now, at least that looks to be exciting this year. We've got some folks who can fill up the basket.

 

[64met]

Seriously, we win and JH is a savior. We loose and people seem ready to throw him under the bus. I stated this in another thread, but this game is not JH fault. Look at our coaches, missed tackles, questionable play calling, dropped passes, etc. Is JH Tom Brady. NO. But he has lost JUST 2 games as a starter for us.

If Tua beats JH for the starting position in 2018, then so be it. I have full trust in CNS to make that decision.

 

[Just Win]

*You were specifically addressing the quarterback position so I'm discussing it from that position. I completely understand other areas of the team play into it as well.

**Just as Tua's natural passing ability is obviously better than Hurts'. Hurts' pure athleticism is obviously better than Tua's. Tua's running ability is effective in spots. But no way he would be better than Hurts if QB runs were a consistent and primary component of our offense. Outside of Hurts' superior overall athleticism, Tua's size and smallish frame wouldn't last through an entire season if QB runs were a major component of the offense.

Buzzard. With the stable of RB's and WR's we have, we don't need the QB to run like JH does. Look at it this way, on a scale of 1 to 10 with 10 being best, I would call JH
an 8 as a runner and a 4 as a passer. Conversely, from what i have seen i would call TT a 6-7 as a runner, and an 8 as a passer. We need a passer - we have plenty of RB's to tote the rock. Like i said in another post, our RB's and WR's can't be happy. They don't get the ball enough.

 

[DzynKingRTR]

I thought the whole reason Jalen signed with Alabama was because we were going to turn him into a pocket passer.:conf3:

 

[WylieTexasTider]

Okay I don't believe there will be a QB competition, Jalen will be the QB for the next couple of years, Coach believes in Explosive plays, maybe that is why he goes for the long pass play.

If Nick doesn’t open it up to competition and I am Tua, I transfer. Plain and simple. Why waste another year or two behind Jalen?

Honestly, if Nick keeps Daboll he needs to add a QB coach. Daboll has not shown he can develop Jalen. I feel as if the O staff has let down Jalen and set him up to fail. They need to design an offense for his skill set like LK did for Blake!

Personally, I’d go bring back J-Mac! Imagine the O he could have with our RB’s and Tua’s arm! I bet J-Mac could also create an O for Jalen as well.

I look at Daboll as Nuss and Applewhite. Just a bad fit. Saban realized I‎t and got rid of them.

 

[Bamabuzzard]

Buzzard. With the stable of RB's and WR's we have, we don't need the QB to run like JH does. Look at it this way, on a scale of 1 to 10 with 10 being best, I would call JH
an 8 as a runner and a 4 as a passer. Conversely, from what i have seen i would call TT a 6-7 as a runner, and an 8 as a passer. We need a passer - we have plenty of RB's to tote the rock. Like i said in another post, our RB's and WR's can't be happy. They don't get the ball enough.

I get what you're saying and what I'm saying is "We" (meaning the staff) need to make a decision on what type offense "we" want to be and commit to doing THAT. We need to stop trying to mesh multiple type offenses into one. Depending on what type offense the staff commits to running will ultimately decide who the "best qb" to run the offense will be. I'll use Clemson again as an example. If our staff decided to run what Clemson is running now with their QB, then Hurts would be the best option, not Tua. Clemson requires their quarterback to be the central part of their rushing attack. They only ask him to execute a handful of types of passes. They definitely do not ask him to go through the types of reads and progressions we want Hurts to go through. They have made the decision on the type of offense they want to run and the role the quarterback will play in it and they've committed to it. That's what we need to do and commit to doing it.

 

[Saban4Ever]

If Nick doesn’t open it up to competition and I am Tua, I transfer. Plain and simple. Why waste another year or two behind Jalen?

Honestly, if Nick keeps Daboll he needs to add a QB coach. Daboll has not shown he can develop Jalen. I feel as if the O staff has let down Jalen and set him up to fail. They need to design an offense for his skill set like LK did for Blake!

Personally, I’d go bring back J-Mac! Imagine the O he could have with our RB’s and Tua’s arm! I bet J-Mac could also create an O for Jalen as well.

I look at Daboll as Nuss and Applewhite. Just a bad fit. Saban realized I‎t and got rid of them.

I think he will give Daboll another year. How many years is his contract, 2 or 3?

 

[mlh]

The main thing is what kind of offensive team do we want to be? Do we want to be a wide open - spread team - that relies on short passes, quick screens, zone read running plays, and try and get our WR's and RB's out in space on the edges? Or do we want to be pro-style offense with power running game, drop back passing with play action design?

I think if it is the spread - we go with Jalen. If it is the pro-style we go with Tua.

However, we must be committed to it - whatever way we go. We were a variation of both this season with no real identity. We didn't and couldn't decide what we wanted to be. We could spread and run the ball but our passing game was more pro-style. There were no easy pass completions with our offense this year - no quick outs, very little screens, very few jet sweeps/pop passes, etc. Jalen became easy to defend because our coaches were forcing him to make all the plays and not utilizing the talent around him. We didn't play to Jalen strengths but instead his weaknesses and tried to make him a better downfield passer - instead of letting him get the ball out quickly to the edges with a short to intermediate passing game that allows our talented receivers and RB's to make plays.

^THIS^

We have the talent to go either way, but we have to commit to one philosophy or the other. Both Jalen and Tua are very talented, but in different ways. It's obvious who should be the QB...once you decide what your offensive identity will be.

 

[12Namath12]

I was impressed with Daboll until the Auburn game. Again, it was only one game.

 

[BamaMoon]

I think he will give Daboll another year. How many years is his contract, 2 or 3?

He normally asks assistants to give a two year commitment. For this reason, I'd be shocked if CNS released him, based on performance alone, without giving him at least one year to fix it...if CNS thinks it is a problem.

If he doesn't, when CNS logs into TideFans he'll see that it is.