QB Competition 2018

[TIDE-HSV]

Personally, I think its more likely Tua has a package or at least I hope that's the case. If he has a package most of these questions don't apply. However...

1) My guess is they probably wouldn't but I may depending on the flow. If Jalen hits a big play or 2 for a TD but the offense otherwise stalls then I would be tempted to at least consider it. Again, doubt coaches would but I would.

2) Again, depends. At some point the QB has to make some plays despite his teammates. If Jalen isn't making those at all then again, I think you have to consider a change.

3) No. If you make a change at QB you have to live or die by it. You can't give Tua just one series.

4) If Jalen plays poorly enough that you make a QB change then my answer is the same as #3. You live or die by it and see what happens.

Any of those may occur. I was simply saying that I think we're past the point where Jalen finishes the game, no matter how he's playing...

 

[BamaMoon]

Against AUB we had

3n3 -- ran for 2-- punted
3n5 -- IP -- punted
3n3 -- ran for 2, but we converted 4n1 on the next play
3n4 -- IP -- punted
3n5 -- Complete to Bo for 4-- punted
3n4 --> 3n9 (due to a penalty) -- IP (wild throw to endzone) -- botched field goal
3n2 -- 1st down on Jalen run
3n7 -- 1st down on Jalen run
3n4 --> bad snaps lead to 4n4 -- Foster gets 3
3n7 -- 1st down on Jalen run
3n22 -- IP

2 of the 11 3rd downs didn't run plays (penalty and botched snap). Of the remaining 9, we converted 3, the only converted 3rd downs being Jalen's runs. The converted 4th down was also a JH run. Are you guys really sure you want Jalen running less?

There was a touchdown to Jeudy, but besides that there were zero first downs by pass!!

I wish I hadn't seen this!!!

 

[TIDE-HSV]

Because Jalen played a bad game against Auburn? How is that a "huge" blind spot?

I wouldn't put it that way. He does have a tendency to stick with a QB through thick or thin. He's done it with several now. However to say that the problem is "a bad game against Auburn" is a gross oversimplification. What the AU game did was hold a big spotlight on the method which has evolved to neutralize Hurts - and thus Bama's offense. I don't think Saban and the staff will just stand and watch a repeat performance...

 

[B1GTide]

Because Jalen played a bad game against Auburn? How is that a "huge" blind spot?

I'm sorry - I built in the assumption that readers have been reading along for the last few months. Saban does not pull established starters at QB for a better QB on the bench. He builds a relationship with his starting QBs, builds trust, and sticks with them even in the face of disaster.

 

[LA4Bama]

I trust him to put together a solid game plan and have the team as well prepared for Clemson as they possibly can be. But I do not trust him to see his blind spots - and QB is a huge blind spot for him.

I have no reason to believe the most expensive staff in college football doesn't tell Saban the objective truth, or that he doesn't listen to them.

 

[B1GTide]

I have no reason to believe the most expensive staff in college football doesn't tell Saban the objective truth, or that he doesn't listen to them.

I hope that you are right, but we will know soon enough.

 

[Maxbama]

I don't blindly trust anyone. Saban is human. He is not some infallible machine. We trust now because we have no better option, and because he is probably worthy of that trust. But we also know that he has a HUGE ego. We will just have to wait and see how it all plays out.

Good point. Didn't mean to imply blind trust. What I really meant was the coaching staff knows exactly what is going on with all the players (nagging injuries/cold or flu). And, as this thread has pointed out - weaknesses for each player. I hope we are successful in playing to our strengths (not just at QB) and I'm sure we will game plan that way. Clemson will try and game plan against our strengths. I hope, if necessary, that Coach Saban breaks his tendency if the game isn't going our way.

 

[rgw]

Saban is not one to just allow teams to make the same sort of mistakes twice. We were very good against the run v. Auburn after a pretty poor game (maybe not statistically but execution-wise) against State. Auburn executed in the pass game on 3rd downs which won them the ball game.

I think we're gonna get a manhood challenge game on the backs and linemen. Harris and Scarbough will get a huge load. Hurts will take a back seat and just distribute the ball quick. We may lose our rear ends but we're not going to lose by calling a game that allows Jalen to fall into the excesses of heroball. Because pure and simple that is what I feel like our offense became in the Auburn game and it is senseless. Too much talent in the backfield alone for this young man to have to play a game like he's got Louisville's roster around him.

 

[BamaMoon]

The Auburn game was a culmination of about 2 years worth of "close calls" with Jalen in big games.

His performance going back to his freshman year (with the exception of the MSU game) was sketchy, but we just blew it off as "he's a freshman." In the CFP semis, although he played poorly, we just overwhelmed a good team in Washington.

Probably the thing that hurt him the most, in hindsight, is how he "almost" saved us on the last drive against Clemson. The situation played to his strengths and with only 1 pass completion in the final drive, he led us to a TD and it looked like another NC (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XbT6VykEeE8) Of course, we know why we were in the situation of not having a defense that could stand up and we allowed DW a heroic comeback.

This year, starting off against FSU, there was more of the same, but we won. No sweat.

Things looked pretty good against the weaker competition, and we kept winning....nothing to worry about, right?

But then when we got to LSU and MSU it seemed like we had regressed offensively, but we still won.

I think the Auburn game has to be viewed as a trend that finally caught up to us. I say all of this to say I don't think CNS has a blind spot. I truly believe everything we've discussed in this thread the staff has probably considered and then much, much more. We know that CNS and his staff knows we didn't convert a 3rd down by passing the whole game.

I think Earle is right. The Auburn game changed the way the staff sees Jalen because it's become obvious good teams have figured out how to defend him.

If you have the courage to watch the Clemson game from last year. Fast forward and watch the play that JH scored on from the 30 yard line and ask yourself if Clemson will play him that way again this year. When you watch the replay of his run from the camera behind the LOS, you can see their linebacker vacated the middle of the field and they played right into his strength of pulling it down and running it.

No good team we'll ever face again with JH at qb will allow that. That's what has changed.

 

[rgw]

I agree, smart teams have made the choice to not let him beat them on the ground. They'll give up some yards where he breaks contain occasionally and scurries down the sidelines but they're not going to give up huge runs up the middle off roll out play actions that were back breakers like LSU, TAMU, and Clemson did last year. People have wised up and challenging him to beat them in the pocket and he's not be very consistent at it and against Auburn he was down right awful (can't mince words).

 

[LA4Bama]

Against AUB we had

3n3 -- ran for 2-- punted
3n5 -- IP -- punted
3n3 -- ran for 2, but we converted 4n1 on the next play
3n4 -- IP -- punted
3n5 -- Complete to Bo for 4-- punted
3n4 --> 3n9 (due to a penalty) -- IP (wild throw to endzone) -- botched field goal
3n2 -- 1st down on Jalen run
3n7 -- 1st down on Jalen run
3n4 --> bad snaps lead to 4n4 -- Foster gets 3
3n7 -- 1st down on Jalen run
3n22 -- IP

2 of the 11 3rd downs didn't run plays (penalty and botched snap). Of the remaining 9, we converted 3, the only converted 3rd downs being Jalen's runs. The converted 4th down was also a JH run. Are you guys really sure you want Jalen running less?

There was a touchdown to Jeudy, but besides that there were zero first downs by pass!!

I want to correct my comment here because it's more than a bit misleading. There were no 3rd down conversions by passing. There were five first downs on passing plays. Two were by DPI on Ridley, and 2 were short passes to Harris. Still, only one, the 26 yard pass to Ridley in the 4th quarter, was a completed pass to a receiver downfield that earned a first down.

 

[BamaMoon]

I want to correct my comment here because it's more than a bit misleading. There were no 3rd down conversions by passing. There were five first downs on passing plays. Two were by DPI on Ridley, and 2 were short passes to Harris. Still, only one, the 26 yard pass to Ridley in the 4th quarter, was a completed pass to a receiver downfield that earned a first down.

I understood you were talking about only 3rd down passing plays. No sweat!

That was an eye opening post!

 

[TiderJack]

I'm sorry - I built in the assumption that readers have been reading along for the last few months. Saban does not pull established starters at QB for a better QB on the bench. He builds a relationship with his starting QBs, builds trust, and sticks with them even in the face of disaster.

I have read along with much of the thread. My point was "huge" blind spot was bit of an overstatement. I am trying to remember a QB Saban stuck with that did not deserve to start. He pulled Jake for a lesser QB in one game. You may have a point with Jalen but I don't think I could say it is huge.

 

[Isaiah 63:1]

I think that's a fair assessment. You have to consider few factors that may determine whether Tua plays in the game or not.

1) What if Jalen starts off hot, does what he was supposed to be doing... few gaffs here and there, but Game is tied 14-14 at halftime? When do you put Tua in?

2) What if Jalen is doing what he was supposed to do, but receivers dropping the balls, OL not blocking well?
3) What if Tua comes in a series and he struggles to move the offense? Is that it?
4) what if Jalen plays terrible and Tua plays terrible as well?


There are things I'll be looking for when practice starts Friday.

5) insert Mac Jones scenario here? It’s the only obvious downer you omitted


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[BamaInBham]

I trust him to put together a solid game plan and have the team as well prepared for Clemson as they possibly can be. But I do not trust him to see his blind spots - and QB is a huge blind spot for him.

Anyone certainly agrees that Saban is not infallible and he has proven that rarely, but he does prove it from time to time. But IMO, you are off here about him having a QB blind spot. JPW was the only choice at the time and performed well. GM was essentially the only choice and was OK. AJ was correctly chosen over P Simms, this with some degree of ambivalence by the fan base. Blake Sims was chosen to the shock of most. When the media continued to assume that Coker would be the choice, he steadfastly said, "why don't y'all ask me about Blake Sims, he's a pretty good QB". Again, he was correct. He stayed with him in the AU game, and he pulled it out. He was not afraid to go against form and chose a true fr QB and stuck with him after fumbling his first series. IMO, he's correctly stayed with Jalen to this point - how can you replace a 25-1 QB, who has made numerous big plays at crunch time ? Now things seem to be more open because of the AU game, and IMO, rightly so. But to say CNS has a blind spot about QBs is a gross overstatement. In fact, IMO, he has done extremely well in choosing his QBs to this point, at least twice going against the expected or popular choice.

I have been one to change my tune about Jalen being the hard, fast, only choice at QB, the AU game being the breaking point; and I'm excited about Tua's demonstrated passing skills, and know too that he has proven to be a great leader in his past circumstances. But to say QB is a blind spot because Saban has not yet pulled the trigger to replace Jalen is way too much. It's likely that Jalen is still the best choice at this time, but even if he's not, assuming he is continuing to respond to coaching, it is not wrong to give him another shot. By another shot, I don't mean staying with him no matter what, but a genuine chance to lead the team again. At least from a distance, at this point, it would be sad to see him ditched like that.

 

[UAH]

The Auburn game was a culmination of about 2 years worth of "close calls" with Jalen in big games.

His performance going back to his freshman year (with the exception of the MSU game) was sketchy, but we just blew it off as "he's a freshman." In the CFP semis, although he played poorly, we just overwhelmed a good team in Washington.

Probably the thing that hurt him the most, in hindsight, is how he "almost" saved us on the last drive against Clemson. The situation played to his strengths and with only 1 pass completion in the final drive, he led us to a TD and it looked like another NC (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XbT6VykEeE8) Of course, we know why we were in the situation of not having a defense that could stand up and we allowed DW a heroic comeback.

This year, starting off against FSU, there was more of the same, but we won. No sweat.

Things looked pretty good against the weaker competition, and we kept winning....nothing to worry about, right?

But then when we got to LSU and MSU it seemed like we had regressed offensively, but we still won.

I think the Auburn game has to be viewed as a trend that finally caught up to us. I say all of this to say I don't think CNS has a blind spot. I truly believe everything we've discussed in this thread the staff has probably considered and then much, much more. We know that CNS and his staff knows we didn't convert a 3rd down by passing the whole game.

I think Earle is right. The Auburn game changed the way the staff sees Jalen because it's become obvious good teams have figured out how to defend him.

If you have the courage to watch the Clemson game from last year. Fast forward and watch the play that JH scored on from the 30 yard line and ask yourself if Clemson will play him that way again this year. When you watch the replay of his run from the camera behind the LOS, you can see their linebacker vacated the middle of the field and they played right into his strength of pulling it down and running it.

No good team we'll ever face again with JH at qb will allow that. That's what has changed.

Excellent post. I believe you summarized the events very well that have lead us to this point of knowing that if it continues in a similar way we have a very difficult game ahead of us.

 

[B1GTide]

Anyone certainly agrees that Saban is not infallible and he has proven that rarely, but he does prove it from time to time. But IMO, you are off here about him having a QB blind spot. JPW was the only choice at the time and performed well. GM was essentially the only choice and was OK. AJ was correctly chosen over P Simms, this with some degree of ambivalence by the fan base.

Look, I know that you love Saban but come on. AJ was born a better QB than GMac was on his best day. Add the fact that GMac had broken ribs when you played Texas. Saban went with GMac in that game rather than AJ, even knowing that it meant that you were going to have to win the game without a passing game. Then the next season, with GMac still a below average QB when under pressure, AJ rode the pine the entire season. AJ didn't become your QB until GMac ran out of eligibility.

But you can go back further if you like. Look back to his days at LSU, when he didn't want to bench his starting QBs in the face of injuries or terrible performances.

Saban is the best head coach in the game, but there is some kind of connection that he makes with QBs that doesn't align with other position groups. He will bench a DB in a second if there is even a chance that he will see better play from someone else - just a chance.

 

[BamaGreek]

Anyone certainly agrees that Saban is not infallible and he has proven that rarely, but he does prove it from time to time. But IMO, you are off here about him having a QB blind spot. JPW was the only choice at the time and performed well. GM was essentially the only choice and was OK. AJ was correctly chosen over P Simms, this with some degree of ambivalence by the fan base. Blake Sims was chosen to the shock of most. When the media continued to assume that Coker would be the choice, he steadfastly said, "why don't y'all ask me about Blake Sims, he's a pretty good QB". Again, he was correct. He stayed with him in the AU game, and he pulled it out. He was not afraid to go against form and chose a true fr QB and stuck with him after fumbling his first series. IMO, he's correctly stayed with Jalen to this point - how can you replace a 25-1 QB, who has made numerous big plays at crunch time ? Now things seem to be more open because of the AU game, and IMO, rightly so. But to say CNS has a blind spot about QBs is a gross overstatement. In fact, IMO, he has done extremely well in choosing his QBs to this point, at least twice going against the expected or popular choice.

I have been one to change my tune about Jalen being the hard, fast, only choice at QB, the AU game being the breaking point; and I'm excited about Tua's demonstrated passing skills, and know too that he has proven to be a great leader in his past circumstances. But to say QB is a blind spot because Saban has not yet pulled the trigger to replace Jalen is way too much. It's likely that Jalen is still the best choice at this time, but even if he's not, assuming he is continuing to respond to coaching, it is not wrong to give him another shot. By another shot, I don't mean staying with him no matter what, but a genuine chance to lead the team again. At least from a distance, at this point, it would be sad to see him ditched like that.

BamainBham you are absolutely correct here. If Bama gets to the promised land, it will be Jalen that leads them there. Dilly Dilly and Roll Tide!

 

[BamaInBham]

Look, I know that you love Saban but come on. AJ was born a better QB than GMac was on his best day. Add the fact that GMac had broken ribs when you played Texas. Saban went with GMac in that game rather than AJ, even knowing that it meant that you were going to have to win the game without a passing game. Then the next season, with GMac still a below average QB when under pressure, AJ rode the pine the entire season. AJ didn't become your QB until GMac ran out of eligibility.

But you can go back further if you like. Look back to his days at LSU, when he didn't want to bench his starting QBs in the face of injuries or terrible performances.

Saban is the best head coach in the game, but there is some kind of connection that he makes with QBs that doesn't align with other position groups. He will bench a DB in a second if there is even a chance that he will see better play from someone else - just a chance.

I know you know that QB is a totally different kind of position, especially when it comes to starting, benching, etc. It's conceivable that AJ was not the better choice in '09, and remember a decent NC winning QB was returning in '10. How many coaches would have benched him? Saban was still afraid to "let AJ loose" in '11 til the title game (IMO, possibly one of the few QB mistakes of Saban's tenure.) But you ignore all of the other correct choices he's made. So, "he can make mistakes" is far more accurate than saying "he has a huge blind spot" . IMO, he's actually good at choosing QBs and handling them, imperfect, but good. Yea, I think Saban is good, but I would think that would add to my credibility . But I'm quite aware of what I think are some of his flaws and could name them. But why ? (You referred to one a post or 2 back.) My comments about him have nothing to do with some sort of "my hero can do no wrong" complex, just my cold, fallible judgment.

 

[TiderJack]

I know you know that QB is a totally different kind of position, especially when it comes to starting, benching, etc. It's conceivable that AJ was not the better choice in '09, and remember a decent NC winning QB was returning in '10. How many coaches would have benched him? Saban was still afraid to "let AJ loose" in '11 til the title game (IMO, possibly one of the few QB mistakes of Saban's tenure.) But you ignore all of the other correct choices he's made. So, "he can make mistakes" is far more accurate than saying "he has a huge blind spot" . IMO, he's actually good at choosing QBs and handling them, imperfect, but good. Yea, I think Saban is good, but I would think that would add to my credibility . But I'm quite aware of what I think are some of his flaws and could name them. But why ? (You referred to one a post or 2 back.) My comments about him have nothing to do with some sort of "my hero can do no wrong" complex, just my cold, fallible judgment.

And that QB in '10 had a good season.