(2018 thread) Active Shooter - Stoneman Douglas High School (near Coral Springs, FL)

[Bazza]

Not necessarily the place to debate this.. and I won't speak to MSNBC because I don't watch it but strongly disagree with this statement.

CNN might be biased some but Fox News is broadcasting from a parallel dimension.

I used to think the same thing about them (and used to watch almost exclusively Fox News at one point in my life), but it's not really even close from what I've viewed.

Agree with you on Fox (and I used to watch it nearly exclusively), but CNN is without a doubt biased - by a country mile. It bothers me terribly that serious unbiased hard news is just about impossible to find outside of maybe - maybe - a 30-60 slot on any of the "news" channels. Crossfire type shows apparently get better ratings than hard news.

They are all biased which speaks to my disdain for the media - well documented on here.

Further - they are partly responsible for much of the social unrest in our country.

I've never advocated getting rid of the media.

But when they are "called out" - I can't help but applaud.

Those not "calling them out" are afraid of them.

Very sad but even more so a bit disgusting.

 

[Bazza]

I had already had visions of the confusion of "Whom do I shoot first?" melees, if teachers were armed before the mistaken shooting of the churchgoer in Texas. This man's hands-on experience illustrates it vividly...

For the sake of discussion, Earle....

Transform yourself from your current occupation to that of a teacher.

Two questions:

1. If the law allowed, would you feel comfortable carrying while at your job as a teacher?

2. If the day came that an incident occurred while you were teaching - would you rather have a weapon yourself or not?

Assuming there are perhaps a handful of your fellow teachers who are also armed and who have undergone specific qualifying.....which was approved by yourself among other committee members.

 

[UAH]

I had already had visions of the confusion of "Whom do I shoot first?" melees, if teachers were armed before the mistaken shooting of the churchgoer in Texas. This man's hands-on experience illustrates it vividly...

This video turned up on my YouTube feed some time ago. It is actual footage of an armed bank guard taking on an armed bank robber. It demonstrates the reaction time required to confront an armed attacker. A viewer can draw their own conclusion as to what might occur in a school environment. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5_l-fVxU8e4

 

[TIDE-HSV]

For the sake of discussion, Earle....

Transform yourself from your current occupation to that of a teacher.

Two questions:

1. If the law allowed, would you feel comfortable carrying while at your job as a teacher?

2. If the day came that an incident occurred while you were teaching - would you rather have a weapon yourself or not?

Assuming there are perhaps a handful of your fellow teachers who are also armed and who have undergone specific qualifying.....which was approved by yourself among other committee members.

I'll answer this one and also the one about gender. There's no doubt that more men would be comfortable with it. In the end, testosterone matters.

Now, for the second. Our local elementary school has 26 teachers and staff - two guys, neither of whom carry nor who would want to, for 173 students. There is a basic personality template difference between most guys who end up as LEOs and those who end up as teachers.

Now, would I feel comfortable carrying in that environment? Hell no! With at least 80+ students to take care of against unknown firepower? Who on earth in his right mind would?

Now, would I be more comfortable, confronted with that situation? Of course. But that doesn't mean that it's a good idea at all, in its genesis. It is a simple idea propounded by a simple man and it makes for a simple slogan appealing to his base. For a Trump, it doesn't get any better than that...

 

[Displaced Bama Fan]

I'll answer this one and also the one about gender. There's no doubt that more men would be comfortable with it. In the end, testosterone matters.

Now, for the second. Our local elementary school has 26 teachers and staff - two guys, neither of whom carry nor who would want to, for 173 students. There is a basic personality template difference between most guys who end up as LEOs and those who end up as teachers.

Now, would I feel comfortable carrying in that environment? Hell no! With at least 80+ students to take care of against unknown firepower? Who on earth in his right mind would?

Now, would I be more comfortable, confronted with that situation? Of course. But that doesn't mean that it's a good idea at all, in its genesis. It is a simple idea propounded by a simple man and it makes for a simple slogan appealing to his base. For a Trump, it doesn't get any better than that...

Teachers yes, coaches, not so much. Most of the coaches I know are avid hunters, outdoorsmen, etc. I could see them as the most likely to carry, at least in JH and HS situations.

 

[Bazza]

-snip-
But that doesn't mean that it's a good idea at all, in its genesis. It is a simple idea propounded by a simple man and it makes for a simple slogan appealing to his base. For a Trump, it doesn't get any better than that...

OK thanks.

For the record, I'm not sure if this is a good idea or not either at this stage. At it's genesis, like you said. A lot of details would have to be worked out - and based on what I've seen from our government's ability to manage things - I have some serious doubts.

But I still think the concept has potential. Regardless of any political aspects.

Teachers yes, coaches, not so much. Most of the coaches I know are avid hunters, outdoorsmen, etc. I could see them as the most likely to carry, at least in JH and HS situations.

Great point, DBF.

If it's a fit - it's a fit. If not - let's not force anything onto anyone.....God forbid!

 

[TIDE-HSV]

Teachers yes, coaches, not so much. Most of the coaches I know are avid hunters, outdoorsmen, etc. I could see them as the most likely to carry, at least in JH and HS situations.

At the school I used as an example, as with the overwhelming majority of elementary schools, there are few men (sort of unusual for there to be two) and no coaches...

 

[TIDE-HSV]

This video turned up on my YouTube feed some time ago. It is actual footage of an armed bank guard taking on an armed bank robber. It demonstrates the reaction time required to confront an armed attacker. A viewer can draw their own conclusion as to what might occur in a school environment. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5_l-fVxU8e4

Very interesting video. It was a pristine situation, with no one between the guard and robber - no customers, employees, etc. Can you imagine that situation with a room full of 1st graders?

 

[Bazza]

At my high school we had a higher number of women to men as is probably the case with most schools.

We had a married couple - she taught English and he Marine Biology. He had some impressive guns - the bicep kind!

It was later discovered he was cheating on her and they ended up getting a divorce. This was quite a bit after I graduated.

 

[Bazza]

Very interesting video. It was a pristine situation, with no one between the guard and robber - no customers, employees, etc. Can you imagine that situation with a room full of 1st graders?

I thought the tellers had a trap door under their desks they disappeared so quickly.....talk about a fast response!

 

[TIDE-HSV]

At my high school we had a higher number of women to men as is probably the case with most schools.

We had a married couple - she taught English and he Marine Biology. He had some impressive guns - the bicep kind!

It was later discovered he was cheating on her and they ended up getting a divorce. This was quite a bit after I graduated.

I assume that wasn't your elementary school?

 

[TIDE-HSV]

I thought the tellers had a trap door under their desks they disappeared so quickly.....talk about a fast response!

They just hit the floor. There's probably still nothing much between them and 3/4 particle board...

 

[Bazza]

I assume that wasn't your elementary school?

High school.

I finished out here from middle of 10th grade on, after re-locating from Norfolk after Mom remarried.

Funny thing is I started taking German in Norfolk but this school only offered 3 options...French, Spanish, and Latin.

So I took Latin.

Our teacher was a recent Duke grad who also taught chemistry and rode a motorcycle to work. Very smart.

Amazing the stuff you remember.

Our brains really do absorb a lot when we are young - and impressionable....

 

[Tidewater]

High school.

I finished out here from middle of 10th grade on, after re-locating from Norfolk after Mom remarried.

Norfolk, in which region of Virginia?

So I took Latin.

Took four years of Latin myself.
It helped a lot with French vocabulary and Russian grammar.

 

[Tidewater]

Very interesting video. It was a pristine situation, with no one between the guard and robber - no customers, employees, etc. Can you imagine that situation with a room full of 1st graders?

I would think that this would require a good deal of thought by smart law enforcement officers. What would we want an armed teacher to do?
My guess would be that police would want the armed teacher to block the door and wait for cops and if a bad guy comes into the room, plug him.
I bet cops would not want teachers roaming the halls looking for a gunman. That would just complicate matters.
Of course, that means that cops, when they arrive had better be darned careful about announcing their entry into a room before they go in. A password (known to the teachers and shared with the cops when they arrive) might help.

I was watching the Unabomber mini-series on Netflix and the judge who finally signed the search warrant for Kazinski's place said that when he was in the Marines in the Pacific in WW II, they had used the password "Liberty." When they heard someone yelling "Riberty! Riberty!" they knew to shoot that guy.

 

[Tidewater]

The perp in the Rockford, Ill. bank robbery:

Rockford bank robber’s family, friends say his last act doesn’t define him

I'm thinking, with all due respect to the family, it kinda does define him at this point.

 

[Bazza]

Norfolk, in which region of Virginia?

Took four years of Latin myself.
It helped a lot with French vocabulary and Russian grammar.

We lived in a subdivision called Fairlawn Estates. Located right behind Janaf Shopping Center on Virginia Beach Blvd.

We studied and learned the language itself but also read and discussed both of Homer's works....The Iliad and The Odyssey, which was pretty cool because our teacher did a great job relating everything to modern times. Much in the way you would/could with any Shakespeare play.

 

[selmaborntidefan]

The perp in the Rockford, Ill. bank robbery:

Rockford bank robber’s family, friends say his last act doesn’t define him

I'm thinking, with all due respect to the family, it kinda does define him at this point.

Well, Jared Fogle's parents are saying the same thing....

 

[TIDE-HSV]

Norfolk, in which region of Virginia?

Took four years of Latin myself.
It helped a lot with French vocabulary and Russian grammar.

Three years here. Helps with every language...

 

[TIDE-HSV]

I would think that this would require a good deal of thought by smart law enforcement officers. What would we want an armed teacher to do?
My guess would be that police would want the armed teacher to block the door and wait for cops and if a bad guy comes into the room, plug him.
I bet cops would not want teachers roaming the halls looking for a gunman. That would just complicate matters.
Of course, that means that cops, when they arrive had better be darned careful about announcing their entry into a room before they go in. A password (known to the teachers and shared with the cops when they arrive) might help.

I was watching the Unabomber mini-series on Netflix and the judge who finally signed the search warrant for Kazinski's place said that when he was in the Marines in the Pacific in WW II, they had used the password "Liberty." When they heard someone yelling "Riberty! Riberty!" they knew to shoot that guy.

There's a gadget I've seen on YouTube which should be in every classroom. Hard to describe, but it's two interlocking plates which slide apart, locking the door securely. There are a number of similar devices. I think the most a teacher should do is to slide something like that in place and then get away from the door with the students...