I lived in B'ham before moving to Texas and I'll never understand the wishful hope for failure that some Alabamians have for Birmingham. Most people want their home state to succeed, but I constantly read and heard of discussions that just wanted Birmingham to fail, which I just don't get. Politics aside, I don't see how this project won't help Birmingham and not just UAB. There will always be dirty politics everywhere, but if I still lived there, I'd be willing to foot a small tax increase to help my area be better. But according to what I'm reading that's not the plan and so I really don't see why so many people care if it's not going to affect their bottom line.
UAB attendance back to normal
- Thread starter bamafaninbham
- Start date
I don't want Birmingham to fail. I want them to stop wasting money, there's a difference. You do understand that some of their biggest failures have in fact been wasting money right? Why should I want them to continue failing, which is exactly what this project looks like. Another massive failure, a huge waste of money for something that no one really needs.
Edit: Let me put it this way, how on earth can Birmingham get back on the right track by spending well over one hundred millions dollars to house a struggling football program? That's flushing perfectly good money.
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My understanding is that they are not just building it for UAB. Won't UAB have to pay to use it? Won't it be used for other events?
How can you be judge and jury about whether it will fail or not? Lot's of folks said that about the new Baron's stadium.
While the latter is a fair question, the primary use without question will be UAB football. In terms of pay to use, do you know the kind of sweetheart deals they made with UAB before? This is being sold as free for UAB and it will probably end up being close to that, a gift from taxpayers to UAB football. Downtown Mobile is littered with multi-million dollar wastes of money to, this isn't just Birmingham, but they're building something and hoping the demand will come after. That's how you end up with things that just sit there losing money. The Birmingham Barons are somewhat of an exception as they have been the most popular baseball team within the state of Alabama (I think the Baybears beat them in attendance one year), not just for my lifetime but for a very long time. They have a rich history, and a legitimate fan base. To put it another way, the Barons have had more total attendance than UAB in every single season both competed in, regardless of the venue.
UAB football does not hold that place, or anything close to that place. They are not even a top 5 most popular FBS program in the state... That's the thing that some people keep trying to ignore. Going to a UAB game is not like going to a baseball game, it's like choosing to not watch Alabama, Auburn, or other SEC programs play. I've seen the Birmingham ratings for when Alabama plays, almost everyone in the city is watching them. Guess what that means? No one is thinking oh, I have to go out and watch a UAB game, the interest isn't there, you simply can't convince people in the state that they're better off watching UAB play than sitting home watching football teams they care about play.
Anyway, so you get an idea of the cesspool we are dealing with, the old lease running to 2013 including the city of Birmingham buying 5,000 tickets a year. Mind you, this team was hovering around the 15K mark, so a full one third of their sales were accounted for by the city of Birmingham paying out of pocket for them. In return, Birmingham was getting 10% of gross ticket sales, plus 20% of the skyboxes and suites. Now, think this through, the city was buying 33% of the tickets roughly, and then getting 10% back, plus 20% on the skyboxes n' what not. So basically, they were letting them use Legion field for free. UAB on the other hand simply doesn't have much they can pay for use of a stadium, because they don't generate any money, they lose money, and lots of it.
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I like many on here do not want it to fail, but we've been down this road for almost 50 years and the only time it has been reasonably successful has been the Barons baseball field which is again a minor league venue. The Barons park is not a venue that brings in hundreds of millions in tourist dollars like the Superdome or Jerry world. This is the minor leagues. We've also been conditioned by 50 years of watching vaious and sundry Birminghamy and Jefferson county officials being arrested for corruption. Birmingham has been without a government that has direction and vision for years. We've also seen numerous attempts at pro football come and go so it is understandable why we are more than a little jaded.
In regards to UAB football, this is a relatively small state in terms of population. We have 2 major teams who dominate the football landscape. There simply isn't a market for a team that in all likelihood will lose its best coach if he has some success and go back to also ran status. People here will not support a losing program no matter how much money you throw at them. We talk about decent attendance to UAB games, but paid seats are probably less than 5000, if that. Ticket prices are not expensive so you can see how this stadium is essentially being given to the program. They will have to play "money" games away to generate revenue to just keep the general program itself on even footing, much less pay rental for a stadium.
The argument that is could be used for other events is flawed as well. The only other possible use is for soccer and almost no one in B'ham will pay to see soccer a game. The thought that business travelers will pay for it is not going to work either. There is already a lodging and rental car tax so new revenue will have exceed what they are already collecting. The bond payments alone on a 100 million dollar stadium will be approximately 6 million a year. This will bring very few visitors to Birmingham because the opponents will play will not be top level teams. Who wants to go see Western Carolina and UAB play?
Every place in this country that has more than about 50 people congregated together has someone in power taking advantage of the rest.
What you have going on in Birmingham does not represent some sort of apex of corruption in America - it is the status quo.
What you have going on in Birmingham does not represent some sort of apex of corruption in America - it is the status quo.
This is why it has to be resisted! Just because Town A wastes tens, if not hundreds of millions of dollars on unneeded projects (which no doubt enrich particular contractors and other involved parties) does not mean Town B should follow their lead. I gave Mobile as an example, of a downtown littered with projects costing tens of millions of dollars which sometimes do nothing but sit empty losing money with every passing day. Just because these guys seem to know nothing other than build something big, fancy, and expensive does not make it the right course of action!
As Rama Jama alluded to, the odds are UAB's gate wouldn't even be enough to service the debt on this stadium. I have numbers which showed UAB was selling 5,000 season tickets for $225,000 dollars (which were in turn often given out free of charge). Now you bust out your calculator, look at even the inflated attendance numbers with inflated attendance figures from last year, and figure out how that tackles the debt on a 140,000,000 project. It won't, not even close. They are talking about building something for which there is no real demand or need, and that's not ok in my opinion. Not ok in Birmingham, not ok in Mobile, and can someone remind me of how Alabama paid for renovations to their stadium? Did they stick the city with the bill? They didn't need to, because they were building for something with actual demand and profitability.
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Yep, but not like this. Change only happens when we burn it all down. Kick them all out. Killing one project or another changes nothing.
Maybe they will do as well as Jefferson County did with the sewer system. Politician's, contractors, attorneys and bankers made a killing...........
The Bham area has a tremendous capacity for corruption and incompetence. The Jefferson County Sewer scandal was one of the largest of its kind in world history - that is not hyperbole. Jeff County Alabama pop 660K. Its 2011 bankruptcy of $4.23 billion was at the time, (Detroit has since surpassed it) the largest city or county bankruptcy in US history. Since the consent decree was issued in 1996, sewer rates have increased 592%, and as of 2014 there were 40 more years of increases to come. That's not counting the massive increase in the base to $47.30, i.e., with 0 CCF usage. It kills the poor. There were 15 criminal convictions as of 2008. I don't remember precisely, but maybe a decade or so before the consent decree, the total bill for a light user was $7 or $8.
Read all about it: https://www.bhamwiki.com/w/Jefferson_County_sewer_construction_scandal
More: http://www.al.com/news/birmingham/index.ssf/2014/12/one_year_later_jefferson_count.html
So, when the local gov'ts here want to spend any more than is absolutely necessary, many in the populace, any with sense, are concerned. It' not just taxes that may go up, but necessities like water may sky rocket. And it's not just corruption, but incompetence.
Read all about it: https://www.bhamwiki.com/w/Jefferson_County_sewer_construction_scandal
More: http://www.al.com/news/birmingham/index.ssf/2014/12/one_year_later_jefferson_count.html
So, when the local gov'ts here want to spend any more than is absolutely necessary, many in the populace, any with sense, are concerned. It' not just taxes that may go up, but necessities like water may sky rocket. And it's not just corruption, but incompetence.
B
BamaJ
Guest
Well... the "Gene Bartow attitude" of lets blame Bama for all of our problems seems to be alive... for at least a small vocal part of their supporters.
OK...maybe I should know more about this as a person who has lived about 30 years in the Great State, but what did Bartow do?
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