Looking like the following for assistants...

[Evil Crimson Dragon]

This. Within each passing play there are different options for the QB to select from. From what I could gather, a lot of our passing plays had three "types" of routes built into them. A safety valve in the flat (possibly a RB or TE), an intermediate option in the 15-25 yard range, then the home run route in which we were going for the jugular. Tua, IMO, gravitated too much toward the "jugular"/"home run" option when there was a better, higher percentage one available.

It's a part of of Tua's game that he has to get better at or he will regress in 2019. You could already see teams adjusting to his tendencies before the Clemson game. Now there is a full fledged blue print on him.

Once he breaks those habits, those blue prints go right out the window.................and I think a lot of it was coaching, and him trying too hard to get the score. I look for him to progress a lot this year

 

[Bamabuzzard]

Yeah but couldn’t Trevor Lawrence?

My issue was when teams like UGA, MSU, Clemson, and LSU prevented the big play Tua looked very average. There were constantly check downs wide open that could have extended drives. It more reflects on coaching, and play calling. Yes to a significant degree it reflects on Tua, but how hard is it to tell him after the MSU that there are teams with great dlines and great DCs that won’t let you hit a home run when you want to. How many times was Irv Smith and a RB wide open for a 10-20 yard gain all year?

At some point you have to call his shots at times instead of just letting him continuously struggle in games with defenses with the tools to matchup with us.

Clemson dinked and dunked all night, and most of their big plays came from those. We continuously tried to be overally aggressive and played our ways to an early death to a team just as talented as us

Once the ball is snapped players resort to instinctive playing habits. There's not much the coaches can do while the play is going on. There were times Tua looked downfield, the big play wasn't there and hit Irv Smith or the underneath receiver to take the better option. However, the problem was, he wasn't consistent enough with it and when the intensity got turned up. He simply played by his instincts and his instincts are to go for the big play. This has been a criticism we've heard from Coach Saban and if I remember correctly. Even coming out of the Elite 11 camp with Trent Dilfer. However, there's simply no way we can effectively run an offense by telling Tua where to throw the ball and not to throw the ball before each series. That's assuming the defense is doing the exact same thing every time. Which we all know isn't the case. Each play is a life and story of it's own. Where one play, the big play is open and the intermediate stuff is not, then the very next play the opposite is true. The answer to all of this is Tua has to improve his decision making as a quarterback. Knowing when to check down to the intermediate stuff and when not to. We all know the physical talent is off the charts, but he has definitely hit a point that he needs to improve on the mental part of the game.

 

[81usaf92]

Once the ball is snapped players resort to instinctive playing habits. There's not much the coaches can do while the play is going on. There were times Tua looked downfield, the big play wasn't there and hit Irv Smith or the underneath receiver to take the better option. However, the problem was, he wasn't consistent enough with it and when the intensity got turned up. He simply played by his instincts and his instincts are to go for the big play. This has been a criticism we've heard from Coach Saban and if I remember correctly. Even coming out of the Elite 11 camp with Trent Dilfer. However, there's simply no way we can effectively run an offense by telling Tua where to throw the ball and not to throw the ball before each series. That's assuming the defense is doing the exact same thing every time. Which we all know isn't the case. Each play is a life and story of it's own. Where one play, the big play is open and the intermediate stuff is not, then the very next play the opposite is true. The answer to all of this is Tua has to improve his decision making as a quarterback. Knowing when to check down to the intermediate stuff and when not to. We all know the physical talent is off the charts, but he has definitely hit a point that he needs to improve on the mental part of the game.

Lane started calling Coker’s shots against Venerables after he struggled against a daunting pass rush and a great secondary. I’m not saying Tua should be told to revert to Tom Brady’s dink, dunk, hand it off, over the top strategy all the time, but at some point when a game is getting away from him someone has to start calling his shots to get him back into rhythm. We scored a whopping 0 in the second half that isn’t just a qb problem is my point.

Had MSU had an offense or UGA had a head coach that wasn’t the NCAA equivalent to Andy Reid we probably wouldn’t have been 14-1 this year because we saw no offensive adjustments to adversity.

 

[Bamabuzzard]

Lane started calling Coker’s shots against Venerables after he struggled against a daunting pass rush and a great secondary. I’m not saying Tua should be told to revert to Tom Brady’s dink, dunk, hand it off, over the top strategy all the time, but at some point when a game is getting away from him someone has to start calling his shots to get him back into rhythm. We scored a whopping 0 in the second half that isn’t just a qb problem is my point.

Had MSU had an offense or UGA had a head coach that wasn’t the NCAA equivalent to Andy Reid we probably wouldn’t have been 14-1 this year because we saw no offensive adjustments to adversity.

I think the best you can do in the situation you're describing is give Tua some "cue's" to look for when going out for the next series or each series. Which, to be honest, this should be what's being discussed on the sidelines while the defense is on the field. We have no idea what level of coaching is being done during games on the sidelines. But one thing we do know is, whether Tua's being told where to throw or not, he ultimately is in complete control of where he decides to throw the ball. Regardless of what he's been told.

 

[rgw]

Our last two OCs - Daboll and Locksley - were not QB coaches or former QBs and I think the wonkiness in our passing plans at times was partly due to that fact. I think we poorly adjusted to coverages in-game at times.

A few times this happened I distinctly remember with my laymen's eyes:

1) The Auburn game in 2018 we spent a half calling stuff that went over the middle of the field when they bringing a safety up in a rover coverage. As soon as we started going vertical on them, the game blew wide open.

2) The Tennessee game in 2017 we could've thrown the RPO seam route to the TE the entire first half w/ Hale and Irv combining for the most yards by a TE in an Alabama football game. Didn't really realize this opening until late in the 2nd quarter.

 

[Evil Crimson Dragon]

I think the best you can do in the situation you're describing is give Tua some "cue's" to look for when going out for the next series or each series. Which, to be honest, this should be what's being discussed on the sidelines while the defense is on the field. We have no idea what level of coaching is being done during games on the sidelines. But one thing we do know is, whether Tua's being told where to throw or not, he ultimately is in complete control of where he decides to throw the ball. Regardless of what he's been told.

I look for Sark to work on those issues during camp..................honestly, I look for Tua to improve that area a lot this year

 

[CrimsonForce]

This. Within each passing play there are different options for the QB to select from. From what I could gather, a lot of our passing plays had three "types" of routes built into them. A safety valve in the flat (possibly a RB or TE), an intermediate option in the 15-25 yard range, then the home run route in which we were going for the jugular. Tua, IMO, gravitated too much toward the "jugular"/"home run" option when there was a better, higher percentage one available.

It's a part of of Tua's game that he has to get better at or he will regress in 2019. You could already see teams adjusting to his tendencies before the Clemson game. Now there is a full fledged blue print on him.

Tua had a sit down with Kirk Herbstreit mid season last year. Kirk asked Tua about how he reads plays and Tua said he's coached to read long to short i.e. work from the deepest routes to shorter routes in terms of reads. So I'm not sure how much of always looking for the deep shot is Tua or the coaches. IMO, for the Clemson game they should have reversed that reading pattern meaning they should have coached and worked on Tua working from short to deep. In a game with a team that is similarly talented there's no need or logic in being over aggressive. Tua being told to work short to long would've made a huge difference in the game. Now, with that being said there were still some deep balls that weren't there that Tua should have worked through his progressions on but if Tua was told to start his reads on the shorter passes the ball would have come out of his hand a lot faster vs Clemson. Those short routes were open all game and we never adjusted..

 

[mlh]

I look for Sark to work on those issues during camp..................honestly, I look for Tua to improve that area a lot this year

I agree. Tua is an extremely talented QB. But he still needs coaching. He seems to be very dedicated and has a good work ethic. As far as I know, he's "coachable." IMHO, he will improve with coaching and experience.

 

[Evil Crimson Dragon]

I agree. Tua is an extremely talented QB. But he still needs coaching. He seems to be very dedicated and has a good work ethic. As far as I know, he's "coachable." IMHO, he will improve with coaching and experience.

True..............the sky is the limit, and Sark has a great rep with QB development

 

[day-day]

All this talk about Tua and we haven't yet had a good thread going on who the starting quarterback will be next season. May have to wait until after the A-Day Game.

 

[CB4]

All this talk about Tua and we haven't yet had a good thread going on who the starting quarterback will be next season. May have to wait until after the A-Day Game.

I'm still hoping against hope for a graduate transfer......

 

[GrayTide]

IIRC there has been a lot of criticism on here about not wanting to a have a "dink and dunk" passing strategy. While I am not a huge fan of "dink and dunk" it has its advantages. It keeps drives alive, eats up the clock, and helps to avoid negative plays and sacks. The short and intermediate routes in a controlled passing game, IMO, lets your offense control the tempo and pace of play. In the end though, the old cliché of "take what the defense gives you" still applies.

I do agree that not having an experienced OC/QB coach probably has not helped in developing Tua and Jalen when he was here. I do think both QBs showed improvement under Enos. I believe that having someone like Sarkisian will benefit all our QBs.

 

[KrAzY3]

Tua had a sit down with Kirk Herbstreit mid season last year. Kirk asked Tua about how he reads plays and Tua said he's coached to read long to short i.e. work from the deepest routes to shorter routes in terms of reads. So I'm not sure how much of always looking for the deep shot is Tua or the coaches.

I missed that, but it does explain a lot.

I do know that Daboll was known as a deep ball guy, so in the least he didn't discourage that sort of thing. In either case, the next stage of Tua's development does need to be taking advantage of high percentage pass plays (they also have other advantages like beating a pass rush). I don't think there's a way to stop the long ball, Alabama's run game, and the underneath stuff (and Tua has fantastic accuracy). If Alabama finds a way to take advantage of all three of things things, it will be bad news for any future opponents.

 

[Bamabuzzard]

Tua had a sit down with Kirk Herbstreit mid season last year. Kirk asked Tua about how he reads plays and Tua said he's coached to read long to short i.e. work from the deepest routes to shorter routes in terms of reads. So I'm not sure how much of always looking for the deep shot is Tua or the coaches. IMO, for the Clemson game they should have reversed that reading pattern meaning they should have coached and worked on Tua working from short to deep. In a game with a team that is similarly talented there's no need or logic in being over aggressive. Tua being told to work short to long would've made a huge difference in the game. Now, with that being said there were still some deep balls that weren't there that Tua should have worked through his progressions on but if Tua was told to start his reads on the shorter passes the ball would have come out of his hand a lot faster vs Clemson. Those short routes were open all game and we never adjusted..

This is not unique to our staff. In general, this is standard operation procedure for quarterbacks. You read deepest routes first then work back to the LOS. But I agree, depending on the game, the circumstances of that particular game, a quarterback may forgo even looking deep and simply read intermediate to flat routes. An effective pass rush is normally what does this. It's what Alabama normally does to the opponent.

 

[rgw]

I think it is standard to look deep to short in your reads unless the play itself has a specific key that would negate that situation. He was a couple yards from our school's first 4000 yard passer and easily the single-season passing TD record holder. What Tua needs to work on is nuanced. He needs to pick his battles on when to extend a play and open himself up to contact. He needs to avoid falling prey to assuming coverages and instead seeing them before he releases the ball. I hope he reads deep first every time the play dictates it because he's one of the best deep ball throwers I've ever seen. He completes 20+ yard passes like most quarterbacks complete 10 or less yard passes. He makes it looks easy.

 

[KrAzY3]

I hope he reads deep first every time the play dictates it because he's one of the best deep ball throwers I've ever seen. He completes 20+ yard passes like most quarterbacks complete 10 or less yard passes. He makes it looks easy.

I have to point out that I said this several times during the season, and even last season I pointed out the vulnerabilities in overly relying on the passing game... I just want to get that out there, since it's easy to be like yeah in hindsight that was a bad idea.

Tua's big play ability is like a cheat button. It's great, you hit it, oh look, 7 points. Done. The problem is it allows you to develop other bad habits in the process, but who cares right? So what if you don't have a smashmouth running game? Who cares if you're not taking advantage of the short stuff, I mean Tua can throw into coverage and come away with 7 points, what's not to like? It doesn't even matter if the defense gives up points because you'll just score more.

Until the cheat doesn't work, and then you're in trouble (or even worse you get punished for using the cheat). That's why you don't rely on it. Because it won't work 100% of the time and to win a championship you need to be able to win 100% of your games. No one here is saying take the deep ball away from Tua, but what they are saying, and rightly so, is Tua and the Alabama offense can not be reliant on it.

If Alabama goes into the Clemson game more focused on running the ball, and more willing to take the lower hanging fruit in the passing game (remember, Tua had two interceptions, both of which resulted in points for the other team, essentially negating everything Alabama did on offense), it would have been a completely different game. Sure, Alabama might not win most of their games by 6 touchdowns if they rely less on the cheat button, but they'd be more consistent on offense.

 

[rgw]

No doubt, I want the offense to pound the rock next year and save the "cheat code" until the big moments. But when he does drop back to pass, I don't mind him looking deep...just don't throw it to a guy on the other team because he wasn't suppose to be there.

 

[rgw]

I mean, what do you think Lawrence was doing all night against us? Hand off or Renfrow option routes on first and second down to try to make the 3rd down manageable. They mostly did not work. On 3rd down he was looking for shots and, unlike Clemson's defense, our defense was allowing his guys to consistently come open off the snaps especially to the defensive left side.

 

[81usaf92]

I mean, what do you think Lawrence was doing all night against us? Hand off or Renfrow option routes on first and second down to try to make the 3rd down manageable. They mostly did not work. On 3rd down he was looking for shots and, unlike Clemson's defense, our defense was allowing his guys to consistently come open off the snaps especially to the defensive left side.

Most of Clemson’s shots were mostly 10 yard passes that became 60 yard house calls due to bad decisions by our defense and bad tackling. Trevor dinked and dunked us all night more than he threw bombs. Dinking and dunking sets up the the big play.

 

[Con]

Most of Clemson’s shots were mostly 10 yard passes that became 60 yard house calls due to bad decisions by our defense and bad tackling. Trevor dinked and dunked us all night more than he threw bombs. Dinking and dunking sets up the the big play.

I mean, what do you think Lawrence was doing all night against us? Hand off or Renfrow option routes on first and second down to try to make the 3rd down manageable. They mostly did not work. On 3rd down he was looking for shots and, unlike Clemson's defense, our defense was allowing his guys to consistently come open off the snaps especially to the defensive left side.

It hurts to read these quotes, but I do agree with you both.