News Article: Good luck dealing with a pandemic, depending on this administration...

[Crimson1967]

OK, they're done. Macron has shut down France. Like most small restaurants, their margin is small. This will put them under...

The Local France

I hate to hear that. This will hurt a lot of small businesses like that here.

 

[B1GTide]

Okay, something else to take into account. Seems that COVID-19 damages the lungs of those who get it. We don't know exactly how many, but we know it is happening. It is not a surprise. If you remember, back in January I mentioned that both SARS and MERS scarred the lungs of survivors - they are also coronaviruses.

Coronavirus: some recovered patients may have reduced lung function and are left gasping for air while walking briskly, Hong Kong doctors find

 

[NationalTitles18]

To start, thanks for joining the conversation. I am always excited when we get a brave new soul willing to wade into the non sports politics forum.

I wouldn’t leave yet. Most of the people here like to focus on arguments and discussions that have a basis in fact and are backed up with reputable sources.

All that being said, I think it is dangerous to label people who are unwilling to buy the tales being spun by this administration as inherently not conservative. Please join the conversation, but if you want to start an actual dialog or conversation, drive by comments will more often result in one line comments or snark than any actual dialog.

We tend to be fairly wordy, so don’t be afraid to be more verbose.

Now, a little background as to why most on here have little patience for the lies coming out of this administration. There are at least two people in the medical industry, who have front line stories they have shared. There are many more engineers, scientists, lawyers, and others who trust in a fact based approach towards figuring out a problem.

Epidemiologists have long described what happens in a highly infectious outbreak. The well established and accepted information on outbreaks and pandemics have proven to accurately model the current progression in all of the countries. This modeling is the same modeling that the Trump administration have said would absolutely not happen in the US. It is now happening in the US.

Why did I lay all this out? I think by and large, many who are still at least moderately on Trumps side see much of the conversation from Trump skeptics as hyperbolic, hysterical, and fear mongering. Which actually makes sense if you think about it. You seem willing to give this administration at least the benefit of the doubt. Many here have long given up on expecting any action or statement by the president to be truthful. When the President is denying that epidemiological models will affect the US while also claiming that the Coronavirus severity is a hoax, the only real avenue for discussion is to use those models to explain just how wrong he is.

If that process makes someone anti-conservative, then in essence that means that science and math is anti-conservative.

In any event, more voices, placing checks and balances on the group think are always good in any community. Please hang out, have some discussions, and don’t take requests for proof and facts as an attack against you. It is merely the process by which we can refine ideas and arguments. You would be surprised how many people around here have and are willing to change their position on many things. One position that is almost universally immutable is whether facts and truth actually matter.

Well said.

Since I've always respected your views on the football forum CA I'll respond to your post. I'm not ashamed to say I do support the President on a lot of issues. Why? Because Trump is considered by many as a Nationalist. I'm so tired of the Globalists of the past (George W. Bush in particular) Their notion that outsourcing jobs to other countries to help them get rich and powerful would help the U.S. is ridiculous IMO. I talked politics with a co-worker 20 years ago and every day we talked about the issues that Trump campaigned on to get elected. We both felt 20 years ago that NAFTA was a disaster, that China was a threat, and illegal immigration was a major problem. Right now the opponent on the Democrat side Mr. Biden was in favor of NAFTA, does not view China as a threat and is in favor making all illegals American citizens and even inviting more, so I cannot support him. I was a big fan of other Nationalists of the past including Pat Buchanan and the late Ross Perot. I felt they were spot on but there just wasn't enough frustration with Globalism at the time for them to gain traction.

Maybe Trump's response to the virus wasn't perfect but there is a lot of government bureaucracy that Presidents must deal with, and shocking to someone new to government like Trump. Some of the people within agencies have been there through many Administrations and have a their standard operating procedures. I've read that some bureaucratic restrictions may have been part of what caused a delay of testing for the virus. Of course to those on the Left it's just nonsense, it's ALL Trump's fault. If an asteroid would strike Earth it would be all Trump's fault. Maybe one mistake Trump makes is to assume these bureaucrats are all competent and know what they are doing. In 1979 I learned big time how the government can screw up and delay responses because I lived about 40 miles East of Three Mile island. Nobody knew the extent of the accident for a while. Nobody knew how much radiation was released or whether evacuation was needed. I didn't really blame the leadership at the time because I sensed the problem was the system.

I believe most of us here (almost all if not all) do not blame Trump for the virus or for it reaching our shores. We do blame him for calling it a hoax and downplaying it and for removing the existing capacity to quickly respond prior to it beginning and then having a very poor response afterward because he simply did not take it seriously.

I would say if Trump made a mistake it was trusting the system too much. Maybe he felt a system was in place where there were highly competent people around him to make fast decisions in an emergency. Coming from the private sector into government he probably underestimated the slowness of the system. We know how slow things go when we need help from the government and have to go though a lot of red tape to get it. I think once he recognized the slowness of the system he kicked a few butts and got things moving.

Do you feel he made a mistake in calling it a hoax or in saying it's like having a cold or saying one day it would be like a miracle and it would just *poof* be gone? Do you feel his attitude and actions slowed the federal response in any way?

OK, they're done. Macron has shut down France. Like most small restaurants, their margin is small. This will put them under...

The Local France

We will see this in Seattle or New York or both within the next week and it will fan out from there. I don't know how widely. It could be just the hot spots in the beginning but I foresee it being very widespread within 2 weeks or maybe - maybe - a bit longer.

And that goes back again to being unable to test and implement targeted responses. We now have to use the shotgun approach to make sure we are more likely to get it.

Okay, something else to take into account. Seems that COVID-19 damages the lungs of those who get it. We don't know exactly how many, but we know it is happening. It is not a surprise. If you remember, back in January I mentioned that both SARS and MERS scarred the lungs of survivors - they are also coronaviruses.

Coronavirus: some recovered patients may have reduced lung function and are left gasping for air while walking briskly, Hong Kong doctors find

Any pneumonia is going to cause scarring of the lungs. I had it 8 years ago and my lung capacity suffered as a result. It is a well known result of that serious an infection.

 

[NationalTitles18]

And this story just popped up when I check in:

Trump says some domestic travel restrictions under consideration

The novel coronavirus has infected more than 136,000 people globally and killed more than 5,000.

www.cnn.com

 

[JDCrimson]

I really appreciate having found this thread. It's really helped me evaluate my own perspective on this whole issue as well as how we got here. We are suffering from our own sense of invincibility over the last 70 years or so and we are quite spoiled. We dont have many remaining who lived through the depression to give us an impression of this which started as a economic crisis and spawned into a humanitarian crisis and probably set the stage for WWII. Our economy will recover but other countries' economies may not. And that is the thing to watch out for coming out of this. Several EU countries are still in negative interest rate territory a full decade after the Great Recession.

We have talked alot the virus on this thread and the impact on our healthcare care system and they number of people that could die from it. However, we also need to consider that the strokes, heart attacks, cancer, car wrecks, murders that will continue and possibly escalate as well. Even with the understanding that our most venerable citizens are at high risk of dying from the virus resources will have to be taken away from those medical issues that span across any age group to deal with virus. There is not enough system support to deal with all of it at one time. If the numbers reach as many as they are estimating the mortuary system may become overwhelmed, the dead wont be properly handled and mourned. This virus will have to be processed through our whole social system it's not just a medical issue.

It will take great leadership in our country to recover from such as that give to us by FDR and Churchill and a New Deal level initiative to restart the economy all the while keeping our banking system capitalized and keeping inflation from taking hold with all the money flooding into the system.

Unfortunately we dont have that level of leadership available to us in the White House, in the Senate, or in the House now Republican or Democrat. And more concerningly, the ones charged with making the decisions likely won't be alive or will be uninvolved bystanders a mere decade from now and seem totally incapable of making decisions that dont impact nothing but the present decorum and self-interest. We have been attacked in our own homeland but we aren't responding as if this is the case.

 

[TIDE-HSV]

I think I saw Earle at the store yesterday.
View attachment 6553

No, I live in the US...

 

[NationalTitles18]

Infected people without symptoms might be driving the spread of coronavirus more than we realized | CNN

New studies in several countries and a large coronavirus outbreak in Massachusetts bring into question reassuring assertions by US officials about the way the novel virus spreads.

www.cnn.com

New studies in several countries and a large coronavirus outbreak in Massachusetts bring into question reassuring assertions by US officials about the way the novel virus spreads.

These officials have emphasized that the virus is spread mainly by people who are already showing symptoms, such as fever, cough or difficulty breathing. If that's true, it's good news, since people who are obviously ill can be identified and isolated, making it easier to control an outbreak.

But it appears that a Massachusetts coronavirus cluster with at least 82 cases was started by people who were not yet showing symptoms, and more than half a dozen studies have shown that people without symptoms are causing substantial amounts of infection.

ETA: This reinforces the need for the coming lockdown of America. If asymptomatic people can spread it there is no other way to stop it other than mass testing and contact tracing and isolation/quarantine and since we don't have more than a drop in the bucket of the tests needed we are in for a long haul.

 

[B1GTide]

Any pneumonia is going to cause scarring of the lungs. I had it 8 years ago and my lung capacity suffered as a result. It is a well known result of that serious an infection.

Don't discard it that quickly. 9% of people who get this end up in the hospital with pneumonia. Reduced lung capacity is a HUGE deal. The only thing more important to human life than water is air.

 

[NationalTitles18]

@JDCrimson , it is like the shock of 9/11 when everyone came to the realization that it can indeed happen here.

 

[NationalTitles18]

Don't discard it that quickly. 9% of people who get this end up in the hospital with pneumonia. Reduced lung capacity is a HUGE deal. The only thing more important to human life than water is air.

I believe I did not convey my thought very well if you thought I was being dismissive. I was simply confirming and stating that I would expect it. That's all.

 

[B1GTide]

I believe I did not convey my thought very well if you thought I was being dismissive. I was simply confirming and stating that I would expect it. That's all.

We're good - read too much into it. My apologies.

 

[TIDE-HSV]

Don't discard it that quickly. 9% of people who get this end up in the hospital with pneumonia. Reduced lung capacity is a HUGE deal. The only thing more important to human life than water is air.

It worries me as much as my CAD and age, TBF. Mine is reduced because of carelessness installing insulation 40 years ago. IF I survive the infection, I would dread the decrease in quality of life...

 

[TIDE-HSV]

 

[NationalTitles18]

Coronavirus in the U.S.: Latest Map and Case Count

A detailed county map shows the extent of the coronavirus outbreak, with tables of the number of cases by county.

www.nytimes.com

Over 2400 infections and at least 52 deaths so far. On Tuesday I projected out to 60 days. Following that model the day is not over but we are nearly 500 infections past the projection. The deaths, unfortunately, are relatively on track. I hope they will be lower at closer to 9 PM tonight than the 64 deaths projected.

Johns Hopkins professor estimates at least 50,000 people have coronavirus in US

A medical professor at Johns Hopkins University urged Americans not to believe low numbers of confirmed coronavirus cases in the United States, warning the actual number of people walking around wi…

thehill.com

 

[TIDE-HSV]

Coronavirus in the U.S.: Latest Map and Case Count

A detailed county map shows the extent of the coronavirus outbreak, with tables of the number of cases by county.

www.nytimes.com

Over 2400 infections and at least 52 deaths so far. On Tuesday I projected out to 60 days. Following that model the day is not over but we are nearly 500 infections past the projection. The deaths, unfortunately, are relatively on track. I hope they will be lower at closer to 9 PM tonight than the 64 deaths projected.

Johns Hopkins professor estimates at least 50,000 people have coronavirus in US

A medical professor at Johns Hopkins University urged Americans not to believe low numbers of confirmed coronavirus cases in the United States, warning the actual number of people walking around wi…

thehill.com

There's not really been time for the restrictions to take hold and show a slowing. One thing I don't understand are the delayed closings. Our schools here in HSV are going through the day Wednesday. Under the circumstances, I think that's foolish. It's like the word "exponential" didn't exist in the English language...

 

[TIDE-HSV]

I feel like we're living through the Decameron, holed up, waiting for the grim reaper...

 

[TexasBama]

Coronavirus in the U.S.: Latest Map and Case Count

A detailed county map shows the extent of the coronavirus outbreak, with tables of the number of cases by county.

www.nytimes.com

Over 2400 infections and at least 52 deaths so far. On Tuesday I projected out to 60 days. Following that model the day is not over but we are nearly 500 infections past the projection. The deaths, unfortunately, are relatively on track. I hope they will be lower at closer to 9 PM tonight than the 64 deaths projected.

Johns Hopkins professor estimates at least 50,000 people have coronavirus in US

A medical professor at Johns Hopkins University urged Americans not to believe low numbers of confirmed coronavirus cases in the United States, warning the actual number of people walking around wi…

thehill.com

The US case count from Wednesday through today has increased pretty much linearly. Which means that the we are still testing limited.

 

[B1GTide]

Well, the number of active cases is higher than the number of recovered cases once again - it had flipped around for nearly a month. There is no denying it - almost 11,000 new cases again today.

 

[CrimsonMapper]

did she work out how to get from the Airport? If you need it, Groome transport goes from Hartsfeild to Montgomery/Auburn and a few other places multiple times per day. We've used them to get close to my wifes families place at lake martin for visiting family

Thanks for the advice! I’m going to pick her up. We’re just going to stick it out at the house since school is shut for weeks. I can work from home and she’s a teacher. At this point, I can’t risk staying in Mobile with my parents because it would be very bad for my mom to get it. This is all assuming she’ll get on the flight tomorrow. I’ve told her that at this point she’s as safe there as Montgomery and school is shut for a while anyway. But momma misses the boys something awful.

 

[NationalTitles18]

COVID-19 Characteristics Differ in Children vs Adults

Pediatric cases of COVID-19 are typically mild, but underlying coinfection may be more common in children than in adults, according to clinical findings from pediatric inpatients in Wuhan, China.

www.medscape.com

The median age of the COVID-19 patients in that series was 3 years (range 1-7 years), and in contrast to the findings of Xia et al., all previously had been "completely healthy." Common characteristics were high fever and cough in all six patients, and vomiting in four patients. Five had pneumonia as assessed by X-ray, and CTs showed typical viral pneumonia patterns.

One patient was admitted to a pediatric ICU. All patients received antiviral agents, antibiotic agents, and supportive therapies; all recovered after a median hospital stay of 7.5 days (median range, 5-13 days).

In contrast with the findings of Xia et al., the findings of Liu et al. showed COVID-19 caused moderate to severe respiratory illness in children, and that infections in children were occurring early in the epidemic.


Some Perspective
In an interview regarding the findings by Xia et al., Stephen I. Pelton, MD, professor of pediatrics and epidemiology at Boston University, and director of pediatric infectious diseases at Boston Medical Center, noted the absence of fever in 40% of cases.


"This is important, as the criteria for testing by public health departments has been high fever, cough, and shortness of breath," he said. "The absence of fever is not inconsistent with COVID-19 disease."

Another important point regarding the findings by Xia et al. is that the highest attack rates appear to be in children under 1 year of age (input: of children in the study), he said, further noting that the finding of concurrent influenza A, influenza B, or respiratory syncytial virus underscores that "concurrent infection can occur, and the presence of another virus in diagnostic tests does not mean that COVID-19 is not causal."

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Just want to share as I come across things and have a chance to digest them.

These findings are pretty matter of fact and clear.