75th anniversary of D-Day...

[TIDE-HSV]

My mother was born in 1928. She used to tell us FDR was the first president she remembers. Mama was almost 17 when he died. She said it was a really tough day for her family and the whole the country.

I'm sure most here have seen the Ken Burns documentary on the Roosevelts. If not it is worth watching.

I was born in 1939 and he's definitely the first I remember. I also remember the mourning on the day he died...

 

[crimsonaudio]

March 28, 1945: On the western from, the Allies continue the push into Germany as US 1st Army continues its rapid advance from the Remagen bridgehead and captures Marburg, while US 3rd Army captures Limburg am Lahn. Meanwhile, British 2nd Army begins an offensive towards the Elbe River. British sappers build another Rhine bridge, "Blackfriars", by noon. Behind the lines, Dwight Eisenhower transfers US 9th Army from Bernard Montgomery's army group to Omar Bradley's army group as Anglo-American objective shifts toward southern Germany and Czechoslovakia. US 9th Army attacks around Dorsten, Kirchhellen, Hamborn, and Neumuhl while US 7th Army attacks toward Aschaffenburg, Mannheim, and Heidelberg.

In addition to besieging the German fortress ports at Lorient and St. Nazaire, US 15th Army is ordered to control occupied territory as more of Germany falls into Allied hands.

Over Germany, US 8th Air Force attacks Berlin with 383 bombers, Hannover with 465 bombers, and targets of opportunity with 43 bombers.

To the east, Soviet 1st Belorussian Front captures Danzig (now Gdansk), yielding 9,000 prisoners of war. Gdynia falls to forces of the Soviet 2nd Belorussian Front. Soviet 3rd Belorussian Front captures Balga, completing destruction of German 4th Army (except those elements evacuated by sea) along East Prussian coast. In Hungary, just south of the Danube River, Gyor is captured by troops from the 2nd Ukrainian Front. while Soviet 3rd Ukrainian Front continues attacking German Army Group South and pushing beyond the Raab River.

Stalin receives a personal telegram from General Eisenhower (Supreme Allied Commander of the Allied Expeditionary Force) giving details of his order of battle and saying that he intends to send the main weight of his advance across southern Germany and Austria. The main thrust is to be toward Erfurt and Leipzig and a secondary effort is to go for Nuremberg, Regensburg and Linz. This effectively leaves the capture of Berlin to the Soviets. The British protest the signal sent to Stalin, suggesting that decisions of such importance should not be taken by Eisenhower alone and that he also overstepping the authority in communicating directly with the Soviets. Both Churchill and the British Chiefs of Staff would prefer the advance to be directed on Berlin as had been the plan up to now for the political value of this move. However, President Roosevelt, weakened by his illness, leaves most military decisions to General Marshall and the Joint Chiefs of Staff. Marshall confirms his support for Eisenhower in response to the British protest.

Pictured: A Sherman tank crosses a scissors bridge near Meiktila, March 28, 1945.; From left, Harry Goldsmith, Lawrence Czarnota, Cecil New and Glenn Kappelman bring two captured Germans, sitting on the front hood, into a Main River village. The photo was taken March 28, 1945, east of Offenbach, Germany.; Patton, Bradley, Hodges, and Eisenhower, Germany, March 28, 1945.; Map depicting the crossing of the Rhine, 22-28 Mar 1945.

 

[TIDE-HSV]

And Ike lived long enough to see the consequences of giving Berlin to the Soviets...

 

[Tidewater]

March 28, 1945: ... Stalin receives a personal telegram from General Eisenhower (Supreme Allied Commander of the Allied Expeditionary Force) giving details of his order of battle and saying that he intends to send the main weight of his advance across southern Germany and Austria. The main thrust is to be toward Erfurt and Leipzig and a secondary effort is to go for Nuremberg, Regensburg and Linz. This effectively leaves the capture of Berlin to the Soviets. The British protest the signal sent to Stalin, suggesting that decisions of such importance should not be taken by Eisenhower alone and that he also overstepping the authority in communicating directly with the Soviets. Both Churchill and the British Chiefs of Staff would prefer the advance to be directed on Berlin as had been the plan up to now for the political value of this move. However, President Roosevelt, weakened by his illness, leaves most military decisions to General Marshall and the Joint Chiefs of Staff. Marshall confirms his support for Eisenhower in response to the British protest.

Pictured: ...Map depicting the crossing of the Rhine, 22-28 Mar 1945.
View attachment 6895

I hate to say it, but the Brits were right on this one. If the considerations in Ike's mind were not strictly military, then they were most likely "grand strategy" or policy and grand strategy and policy decisions ought to be left to policymakers. Military strategy, properly understood, is subordinate to policy. Here is a diagram showing the relationship. This is now called the "Strategic-Operational-Tactical (SOT) Snowman."

("NCA" means "National Command Authorities," a Cold War construct meaning the president and the SecDef, so just imagine it says "President & SecWar" here instead of "NCA").

Should the Allies have met the Red Army at Berlin? That is a policy question, because it has profound impacts on the post-war peace. Better to make that decision at the policy level (heads of state, ministers of defense) rather than by a man in uniform (theater strategist).
Now, was Ike right? Probably. The Soviets lost a ton of men taking Berlin and the Allies were going to get almost 3/4 of the city for free in the post-war occupation. Did this free up forces to race south and east and occupy southern Germany and Austria? Sure.
Maybe we can say that Ike's was a good decision improperly arrived at.

 

[Tidewater]

March 28, 1945: In addition to besieging the German fortress ports at Lorient and St. Nazaire, US 15th Army is ordered to control occupied territory as more of Germany falls into Allied hands.

Talk about a split focus. Beseiging German forces still in Brittany (Although the Brits or Canadians were probably besieging the place, Dunkirk, for example, did not fall until 8 MAY 1945!) and arranging occupation duty in Germany. I imagine that the American forces besieging Lorient and St. Nazaire felt themselves pretty lucky, since their odds of dying were pretty slim.

The 15th Army would be Patton's last command. Once the shooting stopped, they were the "lessons learned" command.

 

[TIDE-HSV]

Talk about a split focus. Beseiging German forces still in Brittany (Dunkirk, for example, did not fall until 8 MAY 1945! Although the Brits or Canadians were probably besieging that place) and arranging occupation duty in Germany. I imagine that the American forces besieging Lorient and St. Nazaire felt themselves pretty lucky, since their odds of dying were pretty slim.

The 15th Army would be Patton's last command. Once the shooting stopped, they were the "lessons learned" command.

Pretty much had to be, since he didn't live out 1945, dying barely 60. He looked ancient for someone that age. OTOH, when I see mug shots in the local news of some guys (particularly meth) who look older than I, and then their age pops up and it's something like 49. I guess mileage matters...

 

[Tidewater]

Pretty much had to be, since he didn't live out 1945, dying barely 60. He looked ancient for someone that age. OTOH, when I see mug shots in the local news of some guys (particularly meth) who look older than I, and then their age pops up and it's something like 49. I guess mileage matters...

"It's not the age, it's the mileage," is true I guess.
Still, I'm not sure I would put Patton in charge of a "lessons learned" command. Like Grant, Patton had what Napoleon called genie (maybe best translated as "will" in English) in spades, but, like Grant, Patton did not strike me as a great intellect.

 

[TIDE-HSV]

"It's not the age, it's the mileage," is true I guess.
Still, I'm not sure I would put Patton in charge of a "lessons learned" command. Like Grant, Patton had what Napoleon called genie (maybe best translated as "will" in English) in spades, but, like Grant, Patton did not strike me as a great intellect.

He made some statements which were strikingly less than brilliant...

 

[Tidewater]

He made some statements which were strikingly less than brilliant...

Putting it politely.

 

[UAH]

I hate to say it, but the Brits were right on this one. If the considerations in Ike's mind were not strictly military, then they were most likely "grand strategy" or policy and grand strategy and policy decisions ought to be left to policymakers. Military strategy, properly understood, is subordinate to policy. Here is a diagram showing the relationship. This is now called the "Strategic-Operational-Tactical (SOT) Snowman."
View attachment 6896
("NCA" means "National Command Authorities," a Cold War construct meaning the president and the SecDef, so just imagine it says "President & SecWar" here instead of "NCA").

Should the Allies have met the Red Army at Berlin? That is a policy question, because it has profound impacts on the post-war peace. Better to make that decision at the policy level (heads of state, ministers of defense) rather than by a man in uniform (theater strategist).
Now, was Ike right? Probably. The Soviets lost a ton of men taking Berlin and the Allies were going to get almost 3/4 of the city for free in the post-war occupation. Did this free up forces to race south and east and occupy southern Germany and Austria? Sure.
Maybe we can say that Ike's was a good decision improperly arrived at.

Difficult for me to think that Marshall particularly and Churchill would not be involved in this decision. I can appreciate that everything in DC was in a state of flux with FDR increasingly incapacitated and the state department in constant change. My impression is that Eisenhower was an administrator of the first order and adept at CYA.

 

[UAH]

"It's not the age, it's the mileage," is true I guess.
Still, I'm not sure I would put Patton in charge of a "lessons learned" command. Like Grant, Patton had what Napoleon called genie (maybe best translated as "will" in English) in spades, but, like Grant, Patton did not strike me as a great intellect.

If we look closely at MacArthur we would see some of the same traits, similar accomplishments and even greater failures than Patton both as a military strategist and as a politician. Reading extensively on Patton over many years I do view him as first rate military strategist and see indications of him being a warrior of the first order from early on in his career.

 

[Tidewater]

Difficult for me to think that Marshall particularly and Churchill would not be involved in this decision. I can appreciate that everything in DC was in a state of flux with FDR increasingly incapacitated and the state department in constant change. My impression is that Eisenhower was an administrator of the first order and adept at CYA.

For me, Churchill was even slicker than most.
Relatively early in the war, he was playing for empire, by which I mean, at some junctures, when the imperatives of winning the war collided with preserving the British Empire, Churchill chose the latter. The Dodecanese Campaign and the withdrawal of the 2nd British Parachute Brigade (composed of the 4th, 5th, and 6th Parachute Battalions) from southern France even before the fighting was really over so they could be deployed to liberate Greece (and protect British possessions in the eastern Med after the war). Clearly (at least to my mind), retaining the 2nd British Parachute Brigade was important to defeating the Nazis in southern Germany. Churchill removed them anyway for largely post-war imperial reasons.

 

[TIDE-HSV]

For me, Churchill was even slicker than most.
Relatively early in the war, he was playing for empire, by which I mean, at some junctures, when the imperatives of winning the war collided with preserving the British Empire, Churchill chose the latter. The Dodecanese Campaign and the withdrawal of the 2nd British Parachute Brigade (composed of the 4th, 5th, and 6th Parachute Battalions) from southern France even before the fighting was really over so they could be deployed to liberate Greece (and protect British possessions in the eastern Med after the war). Clearly (at least to my mind), retaining the 2nd British Parachute Brigade was important to defeating the Nazis in southern Germany. Churchill removed them anyway for largely post-war imperial reasons.

And yet they lost it anyway...

 

[crimsonaudio]

March 29, 1945: Armor of the British 21st Army Group breaks out of the Wesel bridgehead and British 2nd Army attacks around Emmerich, Netterden, Rheine, Winterswijk, Osnabruck, Beikelort, and Coesfeld. US 9th Army is attacking around Dorsten, Marl, Polsum, Feldhausen, Schoven, Gladbeck, and Sterkrade while US 1st Army attacks northwards toward Paderborn to isolate the Ruhr. US 3rd Army captures Lauterbach and exploits rapidly northward and eastward. US 7th Army is attacking against strong resistance around Aschaffenburg but captures Mannheim and Heidelberg.

Omar Bradley is promoted to the temporary rank of general.

Above Germany, RAF Bomber Command sends 130 aircraft to attack Salzgitter during the day and 48 aircraft to attack Berlin overnight.

To the east, Soviet troops entered former Czechoslovakian province of Ruthenia. 8th Guards Army and 5th Shock Army of Soviet 1st Belorussian Front capture Kustrin, eliminating all but approximately 1000 German troops who escape. 2nd Shock Army and 19th Army of Soviet 2nd Belorussian Front assaulting Danzig. Soviet 3rd Ukrainian Front is pushing back German Army Group South and isolating some German forces south of Lake Balaton. Germany loses its last major source of oil when Soviet units capture the Komorn oil fields in Hungary.

Over Britain, the last of 2,419 German V1 flying bombs reaches Greater London.

Pictured: Soldiers of 44th Division, US 7th Army fighting in Mannheim, Germany, 29 Mar 1945; note bazooka and M1 Garand rifles.; Men of the 9th Durham Light Infantry advance through the ruins of Weseke, March 29, 1945.; British Sergeant Edward Hill, captured by the Germans at Dunkerque, France in 1940, smiling as he was liberated in late March 1945.; Soviet M-17 vehicles in the streets of Danzig, Germany, late-March 1945.

 

[Tidewater]

March 29, 1945: ... Soviet M-17 vehicles in the streets of Danzig, Germany, late-March 1945.
View attachment 6929

That great Russian invention, the quad .50 machine gun.
(Not that you are saying they were, but I bet the Soviets claimed it at one point or another).

 

[Tidewater]

Watching a documentary on the last months of the second Work War by Duetsche Welle, one of my favorite media outlets.

It is, of course, filmed from the german perspective.
Unfortunately, it ends with the death of FDR.
Worth a look.

 

[Go Bama]

Omar Bradley is promoted to the temporary rank of general

I don’t understand. Wasn’t Bradley already a general? Why temporary?

 

[crimsonaudio]

I don’t understand. Wasn’t Bradley already a general? Why temporary?

Sorry for the lack of clarity, it was a 'temporary' promotion to 4*:

Bradley's command took the initial brunt of what would become the Battle of the Bulge. For logistical and command reasons, General Eisenhower decided to place Bradley's First and Ninth Armies under the temporary command of Field Marshal Montgomery's 21st Army Group on the northern flank of the Bulge. Bradley was incensed, and began shouting at Eisenhower: "By God, Ike, I cannot be responsible to the American people if you do this. I resign." Eisenhower turned red, took a breath and replied evenly "Brad, I—not you—am responsible to the American people. Your resignation therefore means absolutely nothing." Bradley paused, made one more protest, then fell silent as Eisenhower concluded "Well, Brad, those are my orders."

At least one historian has attributed Eisenhower's support for Bradley's subsequent promotion to (temporary) four-star general (March 1945, not made permanent until January 1949) to, in part, a desire to compensate him for the way in which he had been sidelined during the Battle of the Bulge. Others point out that both Secretary of War Stimson and General Eisenhower had desired to reward General Patton with a fourth star for his string of accomplishments in 1944, but that Eisenhower could not promote Patton over Bradley, Devers, and other senior commanders without upsetting the chain of command (as Bradley commanded these people in the theater). A more likely explanation is that as Bradley commanded an Army Group and was the immediate subordinate of Eisenhower, who was promoted to five star rank in December 1944, it was only appropriate that he should hold the next lower rank.

 

[Tidewater]

Rank in the Regular Army (RA) versus the "Army of the United States" were a reflection of the fact that the United States used to have very small peacetime army which would balloon up for a war when men flowed into the army, then shrink down once peace was restored.
"During World War II, the Regular Army served as a corps of professionals who formed the leadership of the Army of the United States. Regular Army officers typically would hold two ranks: a permanent rank in the Regular Army and a temporary rank in the Army of the United States. Promotions within the Army of the United States were also very rapid and some officers were known to hold the permanent Regular Army rank of captain while serving as a colonel in the Army of the United States.The Army of the United States rank could also be revoked (sometimes known as "loss of theater rank") meaning that an officer would revert to Regular Army rank and, in effect, be demoted."
During the Civil War, officer would hold RA rank and rank in "United States Volunteers." This is the reason why George Custer could be a brigadier general (USV) at Appomattox in 1865 and die as a lieutenant colonel (RA) at Little Big Horn in 1876.
Bradley held the rank of major general (RA) in September 1944 and was promoted to four-star general (Army of the United States) 12 MAR 1944. He was promoted to four-star general (RA) in 31 JAN 1949.

 

[TIDE-HSV]

Rank in the Regular Army (RA) versus the "Army of the United States" were a reflection of the fact that the United States used to have very small peacetime army which would balloon up for a war when men flowed into the army, then shrink down once peace was restored.
"During World War II, the Regular Army served as a corps of professionals who formed the leadership of the Army of the United States. Regular Army officers typically would hold two ranks: a permanent rank in the Regular Army and a temporary rank in the Army of the United States. Promotions within the Army of the United States were also very rapid and some officers were known to hold the permanent Regular Army rank of captain while serving as a colonel in the Army of the United States.The Army of the United States rank could also be revoked (sometimes known as "loss of theater rank") meaning that an officer would revert to Regular Army rank and, in effect, be demoted."
During the Civil War, officer would hold RA rank and rank in "United States Volunteers."This is the reason why George Custer could be a brigadier general (USV) at Appomattox in 1865 and die as a lieutenant colonel (RA) at Little Big Horn in 1876.
Bradley held the rank of major general (RA) in September 1944 and was promoted to four-star general (Army of the United States) 12 MAR 1944. He was promoted to four-star general (RA) in 31 JAN 1949.

I've always thought of it as mostly being the difference between a reserve rank and an RA rank...