Mass shootings . . . . pt 2.

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Chukker Veteran

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Here are my thoughts for the record.

We need universal background checks for all gun purchases.

Handguns are really the problem. Mass shootings make the headlines, but numbers killed by handguns dwarf the number killed by long guns. I would not mind irresponsible handgun owners facing strict punishment (loss of carry permit, loss of guns) for being irresponsible. The number of guns stolen out of cars is mind boggling. If you leave your gun in cars for criminals to steal, you don't need to be a gun owner.

Now on to longs guns. Magazine limits are fine. 5 rounds sure. I could really care less how inconvenient it is on the range. Truth be told, I really don't see the point in semi-auto long guns at all. Hunting? Bolt or lever action work fine. Home defense? Get a shotgun. It would not hurt my feelings at all if semi-auto long guns are banned.

None of those are a perfect answer. Arguing against any one of those because it "doesn't fix" the problem is a straw man argument. This is a complicated problem that will have a complicated/multi-part solution.
Exactly.
we’ve been stuck at doing nothing trying to please an extreme minority of gun owners when most would take reasonable laws well, as you obviously would.

Perhaps a billionaire would decide to launch a buy back handgun program that was so generous that people would line up to sell them back. Where’s Soros when you need him? 😀

Canada has decided to try a few new approaches to guns, I respect them for having the guts to do it.

Going after assault rifles is just the low hanging fruit. A good start.
 

TIDE-HSV

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Exactly.
we’ve been stuck at doing nothing trying to please an extreme minority of gun owners when most would take reasonable laws well, as you obviously would.

Perhaps a billionaire would decide to launch a buy back handgun program that was so generous that people would line up to sell them back. Where’s Soros when you need him? 😀

Canada has decided to try a few new approaches to guns, I respect them for having the guts to do it.

Going after assault rifles is just the low hanging fruit. A good start.
Like I said way above. "Assault rifle" is just a cosmetics definition. Banning all semiautomatic rifles with detachable magazines is the answer. Let hunters go back to bolt and lever action rifles...
 

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As far as I’m concerned it should be renewed no matter how effective it was. Let the gun nuts be disappointed for once instead of sacrificing school children to please their gun fetish.
 
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crimsonaudio

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As far as I’m concerned it should be renewed no matter how effective it was. Let the gun nuts be disappointed for once instead of sacrificing school children to please their gun fetish.
If this is your approach, prepare to be disappointed. Painting millions of law-abiding firearms owners as 'gun fetishist' is using precisely the type of language that makes even the open-minded walk away from the discussion.
 

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The tide will turn, we are the only country that can’t deal with the problem because of an extreme minirity. I imagine the biggest percentage of gun owners share my point of view.
 

NationalTitles18

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Multiple studies after the assault weapon ban expired and accounting for the entire period show that it was an effective law.



Results: Assault rifles accounted for 430 or 85.8% of the total 501 mass-shooting fatalities reported (95% confidence interval, 82.8-88.9) in 44 mass-shooting incidents. Mass shootings in the United States accounted for an increasing proportion of all firearm-related homicides (coefficient for year, 0.7; p = 0.0003), with increment in year alone capturing over a third of the overall variance in the data (adjusted R = 0.3). In a linear regression model controlling for yearly trend, the federal ban period was associated with a statistically significant 9 fewer mass shooting related deaths per 10,000 firearm homicides (p = 0.03). Mass-shooting fatalities were 70% less likely to occur during the federal ban period (relative rate, 0.30; 95% confidence interval, 0.22-0.39).

Conclusion:
Mass-shooting related homicides in the United States were reduced during the years of the federal assault weapons ban of 1994 to 2004.




He calls the results “staggering.” Compared with the 10-year period before the ban, the number of gun massacres during the ban period fell by 37 percent, and the number of people dying from gun massacres fell by 43 percent. But after the ban lapsed in 2004, the numbers shot up again — an astonishing 183 percent increase in massacres and a 239 percent increase in massacre deaths.

Let's compare states with and without large capacity magazine bans:



Methods. We analyzed state panel data of high-fatality mass shootings from 1990 to 2017. We first assessed the relationship between LCM bans overall, and then federal and state bans separately, on (1) the occurrence of high-fatality mass shootings (logit regression) and (2) the deaths resulting from such incidents (negative binomial analysis). We controlled for 10 independent variables, used state fixed effects with a continuous variable for year, and accounted for clustering.

Results. Between 1990 and 2017, there were 69 high-fatality mass shootings. Attacks involving LCMs resulted in a 62% higher mean average death toll. The incidence of high-fatality mass shootings in non–LCM ban states was more than double the rate in LCM ban states; the annual number of deaths was more than 3 times higher. In multivariate analyses, states without an LCM ban experienced significantly more high-fatality mass shootings and a higher death rate from such incidents.

Conclusions. LCM bans appear to reduce both the incidence of, and number of people killed in, high-fatality mass shootings.

___________

We need to stop conflating everyday gun violence, which is its own wider problem requiring a different - if similar - solution, with mass shootings. There's a difference so let's not pretend there isn't.

We also need to try to find areas where the vast majority of Americans agree on taking action.

Banning all semiautomatic rifles with detachable magazines is the answer. Let hunters go back to bolt and lever action rifles...
Common sense solution that most Americans can agree on. Most is the key word.

We can't allow this to continue.
 

TIDE-HSV

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As far as I’m concerned it should be renewed no matter how effective it was. Let the gun nuts be disappointed for once instead of sacrificing school children to please their gun fetish.
Do you realize at all that I'm proposing something much broader and without all the loopholes present in the AWB about how a gun looks? In fact, have you even looked at the AWB in depth, so you know what it says? In the end, it didn't ban "assault weapons" at all...
 
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92tide

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If this is your approach, prepare to be disappointed. Painting millions of law-abiding firearms owners as 'gun fetishist' is using precisely the type of language that makes even the open-minded walk away from the discussion.
if they are that sensitive to where that would make them walk away, they weren’t very open minded to begin with.
 
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crimsonaudio

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if they are that sensitive to where that would make them walk away, they weren’t very open minded to begin with.
It's whether or not people want to have an actual discussion or simply cast aspersions based on ignorance.

There are quite a few firearms enthusiasts out there - I'm one of them - who are open to reasonable discussions with people trying to address the issues we all face. While there are (admittedly) many who won't change their minds regardless, there are those of us that are willing to have an open discussion. But like anything else, words matter, and if one is uneducated about firearms or wishes to simply attack law abiding firearm owners they can't really expect much help.
 

Chukker Veteran

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It's whether or not people want to have an actual discussion or simply cast aspersions based on ignorance.

There are quite a few firearms enthusiasts out there - I'm one of them - who are open to reasonable discussions with people trying to address the issues we all face. While there are (admittedly) many who won't change their minds regardless, there are those of us that are willing to have an open discussion. But like anything else, words matter, and if one is uneducated about firearms or wishes to simply attack law abiding firearm owners they can't really expect much help.
To quote Louie Gomert…Dont cast aspersions on my asparagus.
 

TIDE-HSV

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They could update the definition when it is passed again. I thought you had a very well thought out proposal.
They need to start by tossing out the definition of assault weapon, which obsessed on things like pistol grips and forward stocks, all which were trying to ban something which looked like an AR-15. All the manufacturers did was just design around all the little cosmetic points they came up with. That's the reason a new law shouldn't even have the term in it. It just needs to be all semi-automatic long guns. Yes, hunters will gripe. However, semis are for poor shots, anyway. You can even just have it apply to new gun purchases, since that's where most of the incidents occur. Anything would help...
 

92tide

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It's whether or not people want to have an actual discussion or simply cast aspersions based on ignorance.

There are quite a few firearms enthusiasts out there - I'm one of them - who are open to reasonable discussions with people trying to address the issues we all face. While there are (admittedly) many who won't change their minds regardless, there are those of us that are willing to have an open discussion. But like anything else, words matter, and if one is uneducated about firearms or wishes to simply attack law abiding firearm owners they can't really expect much help.
it's pretty far down my list of things to care about.
 
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