Mass shootings . . . . pt 2.

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92tide

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and i'll add, we are where we are wrt guns in this country in large part to those law abiding firearms owners going along with/sitting idly by and/or saying there's no problem with the massive expansion of firearms in the past few decades.
 

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if they are that sensitive to where that would make them walk away, they weren’t very open minded to begin with.
We are supposed to keep in mind delicate sensitivities when discussing reducing gun violence
They need to start by tossing out the definition of assault weapon, which obsessed on things like pistol grips and forward stocks, all which were trying to ban something which looked like an AR-15. All the manufacturers did was just design around all the little cosmetic points they came up with. That's the reason a new law shouldn't even have the term in it. It just needs to be all semi-automatic long guns. Yes, hunters will gripe. However, semis are for poor shots, anyway. You can even just have it apply to new gun purchases, since that's where most of the incidents occur. Anything would help...
Again, you make sense. I don’t mean to bog down on what an assault rifle
is and I’m certainly not stuck on any one definition.
I know any rational person will admit we have an extreme problem with gun violence here…those that draw the line against any more regulation at all are the ignorant ones in my opinion.

I know for gun enthusiasts, it can be fun poking at me because I can’t tell you the difference between an AK 47 and AR15 but I do not care about that. When I see a weapon spewing bullets like some can I recognize something the general public should not be allowed to own.
 
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Crimson1967

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I don’t own a gun and never have. My experience with them is limited to firing rifles at Scout camp when I was young. I am not comfortable with the idea of handling one due to my total lack of being mechanically inclined. I know nothing about what certain guns are and what they can do so I’m not taking a position on banning “automatic weapons” or the like.

That being said, something needs to be done. No, we don’t need to confiscate every gun as that isn’t happening and no rational person would even suggest it. But there are many first world democracies that thrive without individuals stockpiling more weapons than some countries’ military.
 

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and i'll add, we are where we are wrt guns in this country in large part to those law abiding firearms owners going along with/sitting idly by and/or saying there's no problem with the massive expansion of firearms in the past few decades.
In my opinion gun enthusiasts have allowed their hobby to be high jacked by gun manufacturers and people with an obsessive need to own whatever weapon they might want.
the NRA started out as an honorable association but it has morphed into a monstrous outfit dripping with blood.
 
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crimsonaudio

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I know any rational person will admit we have an extreme problem with gun violence here…those that draw the line against any more regulation at all are the ignorant ones in my opinion.
There are 4x as many people stabbed to death with knives every year than the total number of people killed with rifles.

Why the focus on rifles when handguns kill ~100x as many people as rifles annually?

I'm asking rationally here. I'm fine giving up my AR-pattern rifles if that's what we as a country decide. But really, we have a gun violence problem in this country and you're ignoring the elephant in the room.
 
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The rapid fire weapons so popular with mass shooters are such an obvious thing to get rid of it’s hard not to mention them first. Dealing with them in an effective way would be a good symbolic first step. Then we could get on with reducing gun ownership and handguns however that might be possible.
we need to get beyond this ridiculous position that everybody should have to carry a gun here to be able to deal with other people carrying guns.

more guns do not bring peace, just more shootings.
 
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TexasBama

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They need to start by tossing out the definition of assault weapon, which obsessed on things like pistol grips and forward stocks, all which were trying to ban something which looked like an AR-15.
That's why a Mini-14 wasn't in the ban (and maybe because Ruger's Senator was John McCain also)
 

crimsonaudio

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Data for context:
A 2014 study conducted by Dr. James Fox of 142 shootings found that 88 (62%) were committed with handguns of all types; 68 (48%) with semi-automatic handguns, 20 (14%) with revolvers, 35 (25%) with semi-automatic rifles, and 19 (13%) with shotguns. The study was conducted using the Mother Jones database of mass shootings from 1982 to 2018. High capacity magazines were used in approximately half of mass shootings. Semi-automatic rifles have been used in six of the ten deadliest mass shooting events.


These numbers show that it's not easy at all. Again, I'm not against restrictions if they will make a difference, but we also need discussions about 'red-flag' laws and their implementation.
 

TexasBama

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TexasBama

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Data for context:
A 2014 study conducted by Dr. James Fox of 142 shootings found that 88 (62%) were committed with handguns of all types; 68 (48%) with semi-automatic handguns, 20 (14%) with revolvers, 35 (25%) with semi-automatic rifles, and 19 (13%) with shotguns. The study was conducted using the Mother Jones database of mass shootings from 1982 to 2018. High capacity magazines were used in approximately half of mass shootings. Semi-automatic rifles have been used in six of the ten deadliest mass shooting events.


These numbers show that it's not easy at all. Again, I'm not against restrictions if they will make a difference, but we also need discussions about 'red-flag' laws and their implementation.
You can download their database as a csv file here

 
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NationalTitles18

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A more up to date study. It’s not an illusion.


In that same time frame, active shooter incidents nearly doubled. The FBI designates an active shooter as “one or more individuals who are engaged in killing or attempting to kill in a populated area.” In 2021, 61 such incidents in the United States killed 103 people. In 2017, the number of incidents was 31, though deaths totaled 143.
 

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Incidental story a little off topic…

I had a good friend /business associate who was a confirmed conservative and with me being liberal we disagreed and bickered but we had a close friendship for 30 years, until he recently passed. He was about 15 years older than me, much of our business was done over the phone since he lived in another town.

One day he told me he had bought his first handgun for self defense. He lived in a nice neighborhood in Birmingham and did not travel to dangerous areas. I told him it was more likely he would wind up regretting the purchase rather than the opposite.

Maybe six months later he sent me an email or text, I don’t remember which, and told me he wasn’t up to using the phone. When I pressed him for a better explanation he finally told me he had been cleaning his gun in a bathroom that was tiled. He accidentally pulled the trigger and the report was so loud in the closed room it ruptured both eardrums.
 
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JDCrimson

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Registering/limiting magazine capacity will curtail mass shootings. Universal background checks will impact all gun deaths.

You have to attack the mass shootings first because you have to demonstrate winning in the media. It's virtually universally accepted that mass shootings need to be stopped. There is more public will on this front.

If you drastically reduce handguns through policy change, yet don't do anything to curtail mass shootings, the public nor will the media declare improvement has been won. You have to win the headline war.
 

TIDE-HSV

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Incidental story a little off topic…

I had a good friend /business associate who was a confirmed conservative and with me being liberal we disagreed and bickered but we had a close friendship for 30 years, until he recently passed. He was about 15 years older than me, much of our business was done over the phone since he lived in another town.

One day he told me he had bought his first handgun for self defense. He lived in a nice neighborhood in Birmingham and did not travel to dangerous areas. I told him it was more likely he would wind up regretting the purchase rather than the opposite.

Maybe six months later he sent me an email or text, I don’t remember which, and told me he wasn’t up to using the phone. When I pressed him for a better explanation he finally told me he had been cleaning his gun in a bathroom that was tiled. He accidentally pulled the trigger and the report was so loud in the closed room it ruptured both eardrums.
Well, anyone trying to clean a loaded gun is obviously not gun-owner material...
 

81usaf92

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There are 4x as many people stabbed to death with knives every year than the total number of people killed with rifles.

Why the focus on rifles when handguns kill ~100x as many people as rifles annually?

I'm asking rationally here. I'm fine giving up my AR-pattern rifles if that's what we as a country decide. But really, we have a gun violence problem in this country and you're ignoring the elephant in the room.
What’s crazy is that the Virginia Tech shooting is still the deadliest school shooting… the weapon of choice was 2 pistols. Columbine was shotguns and machine pistols.

Most school shootings are rehearsed and it wouldn’t matter if a person had an AR 15, a pistol, or a shotgun. They are going to kill multiple people if they semi know what they are doing. Police response and how well the school shelters in place will be the main difference of how many people are killed. This one was so deadly because the police decided to save themselves instead of kids. Thankfully the border patrol gave the police chief the finger and went in and eliminated the threat or else there would have been more dead kids.

Just targeting AR15s is not going to solve the problem. Columbine, the UT sniper, and VT proves that you can’t prevent evil by narrowing it down to one particular weapon. Sure I’m against AR 15s because I personally don’t see the need of them, but at the same time I think it’s too short sighted by thinking banning them will fix mass shoutings. I think a larger conversation on gun control and mental health is needed over wasting our time on singling out a particular weapon.
 
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