COVID-19 Vaccines and Related Issues Part XIII

[NationalTitles18]

New Danish Study Finds Masks Don’t Protect Wearers From COVID Infection | Jon Miltimore

“Researchers in Denmark reported on Wednesday that surgical masks did not protect the wearers against infection with the coronavirus in a large randomized clinical trial,” the New York Times reports. The study is perhaps the best scientific evidence to date on the efficacy of masks.

fee.org

How about this one. 😂

Wanted to add that vaccines are about 70% effective preventing severe COVID illness even though they are no longer as good preventing illness.

A study that did not measure whether masks prevent infection but rather measured how the recommendation to wear a mask would prevent infection?

Let me help you out:

Mask of any variety reduce infection rates - more so if all potentially infected parties wear them.

A well fitting cloth mask significantly reduces risk of infection.

A surgical/medical mask that fits well does better.

And a well fitting N95 or equivalent does roughly as good or better.

https://royalsocietypublishing.org/doi/10.1098/rsta.2023.0133#RSTA20230133F2

COVID-19 Masks: Expert Tips for What You Should (and Shouldn’t) Do

Face masks remain crucial in preventing the spread of COVID-19, even with vaccine availability. The decision to wear masks depends on vaccination status, risk factors, and local hospitalizations. Medical N95, KN95, or KF94 masks offer the best protection.

www.ucsf.edu

Did face masks help fight COVID? Scientists want you to w...

Eris is now the most common variant in the U.S, making up 17 percent of all cases and as of August 8, it has been detected in more than 50 countries.

www.newsweek.com

Effectiveness of Face Mask or Respirator Use in Indoor ...

This report describes face mask or respirator effectiveness in helping protect against COVID-19 infection.

www.cdc.gov

Medical and infectious disease experts don't give two blanks about controlling anyone. They have much better things to do.

What they do want is to have and disseminate life saving knowledge.

Former physics professors and other who are not experts in disease - although potentially having knowledge and expertise that can contribute to understanding - are limited in what they can contribute - particularly if they have an agenda that pre-shapes their opinions and that causes them to wildly misinterpret the studies that exist and they cherry pick the studies that they believe make them more believable to their target audience (even when they in no way support their opinion).

And wildly misinterpreted studies that measure one thing and are claimed to measure something entirely different contribute nothing (except to what they actually did measure if the study is of good quality).

There really is no point in having this debate any more until and unless good studies that actually measure this question come out refuting the good studies that have been done to this point because it's clear at this point that masks do help prevent infection (based on scientific study).

 

[NationalTitles18]

That laugh tells me all I need to know.

You are going to believe what you believe regardless of what real evidence actually shows.

Anyone who desires to be deceived is easily deceived.

 

[AWRTR]

That laugh tells me all I need to know.

You are going to believe what you believe regardless of what real evidence actually shows.

Anyone who desires to be deceived is easily deceived.

I don't desire to be deceived. You just believe everything you're told. I look around and ask questions, and I don't buy this one. Like I said earlier a well-fitted N95 surely helps, but the average person wearing poor masks poorly does next to nothing. I also think vaccines help, but these aren't the polio vaccine for a number of reasons including the mutation of the virus. Good luck and God's speed.

 

[NationalTitles18]

I don't desire to be deceived. You just believe everything you're told. I look around and ask questions, and I don't buy this one. Like I said earlier a well-fitted N95 surely helps, but the average person wearing poor masks poorly does next to nothing. I also think vaccines help, but these aren't the polio vaccine for a number of reasons including the mutation of the virus. Good luck and God's speed.

These are not polio vaccines - literally or figuratively.

These vaccines are very good, though. (no need to debate)

And of course "poor masks" don't do much - particularly if they do not fit well or are improperly worn. The scientific studies available generally support that notion.

Even an improperly worn or poor fitting N95 becomes a "poor mask" in that context.

Condoms help prevent pregnancy when used properly. That many people do not properly use them does not negate that fact, but does have an effect on real world effectiveness. This is where education on proper use and additional prevention methods become important. And even with that people will do what they want in spite of what works (up to a certain percentage).

But one has to ferret out how effective a measure is when used properly vs when it is not when considering the matter.

ETA: This comment tells me you know little to nothing about me:
You just believe everything you're told.

The reality is that I have some understanding of how to evaluate the evidence.

And I have come to similar conclusions, based on the evidence, that people with far more understanding than myself have come to - so I feel pretty good about that.

 

[92tide]

That laugh tells me all I need to know.

You are going to believe what you believe regardless of what real evidence actually shows.

Anyone who desires to be deceived is easily deceived.

how dare you doubt bro science

 

[NationalTitles18]

how dare you doubt bro science

IKR?

But it's strange that someone who says that I believe everything I'm told believes when someone tells them a study says something it doesn't actually say when it's not possible that study says what they were told it says and they either did not take the time to check the study themselves or did not understand it if they did. It's a bit ironic.

 

[dtgreg]

IKR?

But it's strange that someone who says that I believe everything I'm told believes when someone tells them a study says something it doesn't actually say when it's not possible that study says what they were told it says and they either did not take the time to check the study themselves or did not understand it if they did. It's a bit ironic.

You'll just never understand that some people are special and have special knowledge.

 

[DzynKingRTR]

You'll just never understand that some people are special and have special knowledge.

They did their own research.

 

[92tide]

IKR?

But it's strange that someone who says that I believe everything I'm told believes when someone tells them a study says something it doesn't actually say when it's not possible that study says what they were told it says and they either did not take the time to check the study themselves or did not understand it if they did. It's a bit ironic.

it's like projection on your wedding day

 

[NationalTitles18]

it's like projection on your wedding day

Projection and confession are rampant these days.

 

[Jon]

this thread is making my morning, thanks all

 

[NationalTitles18]

I do wonder what the point is in asking questions if you aren't willing to accept the true answers when they come and are so deluded by conspiratorial thinking that you will take the word of the ignorant and nefarious over the actual evidence and those who understand the evidence.

 

[AWRTR]

You are all my favorites and the reason so many on the football side won’t dare post over here if they don’t 100% agree with you. I’ve gotten more than one PM telling me they won’t post because of it.

 

[NationalTitles18]

You are all my favorites and the reason so many on the football side won’t dare post over here if they don’t 100% agree with you. I’ve gotten more than one PM telling me they won’t post because of it.

Awesome.

So no one wants to be shown how they are wrong.

They just want to spew and rehash debunked crap and not be called out on it.

And they stay away from fact based retorts.

I have no problem with that.

 

[AWRTR]

Awesome.

So no one wants to be shown how they are wrong.

They just want to spew and rehash debunked crap and not be called out on it.

And they stay away from fact based retorts.

I have no problem with that.

😘

 

[NationalTitles18]

If the facts hurt one's feelings then the problem isn't the facts.

 

[AWRTR]

These are not polio vaccines - literally or figuratively.

These vaccines are very good, though. (no need to debate)

And of course "poor masks" don't do much - particularly if they do not fit well or are improperly worn. The scientific studies available generally support that notion.

Even an improperly worn or poor fitting N95 becomes a "poor mask" in that context.

Condoms help prevent pregnancy when used properly. That many people do not properly use them does not negate that fact, but does have an effect on real world effectiveness. This is where education on proper use and additional prevention methods become important. And even with that people will do what they want in spite of what works (up to a certain percentage).

But one has to ferret out how effective a measure is when used properly vs when it is not when considering the matter.

ETA: This comment tells me you know little to nothing about me:
You just believe everything you're told.

The reality is that I have some understanding of how to evaluate the evidence.

And I have come to similar conclusions, based on the evidence, that people with far more understanding than myself have come to - so I feel pretty good about that.

Here’s the fun part and my point. I agree with you on 90% of what you say. My wife and I are vaccinated and I agree they definitely help with serious illness and hospitalization. How much they prevent infection is debatable. There are studies showing different rates. My two breakthrough cases are enough evidence of that on both fronts.

My first case I also got the antibody treatment at the recommendation of my doctor. I went to one of the clinics set up by the De Santis administration. It was super easy and run very well, so shout out to Florida for that.

I embrace the thought that well fitted N 95 type masks make a difference, but how dare I say that the neck gator things, cloth masks made by everyone’s Maw Maw, and poorly fitted surgical masks with your breath pouring out of the sides aren’t really that effective against an airborne respiratory virus that can easily pass through the fabric or out of the sides of the mask. I’ve been sitting in a waiting room with a mask on and can feel the hot air going out of the sides of the mask. What do you think is happening there? If I sneeze or cough it will stop droplets, but it’s not stopping my breath. Those masks were never really designed to do anything but that. Put your hand in front of the mask and you feel your breath even coming through it.

I had a close friend die from Covid. I had been telling him to get vaccinated, and he didn’t. I’m sure if he had he would be alive if he had.

What drives people away from this board is the group that requires adherence to their thoughts and what they believe to be true 100% or you are a conspiracy nut. I just don’t care what you think. This is an internet message board. You don’t affect me at all.

 

[81usaf92]

You are all my favorites and the reason so many on the football side won’t dare post over here if they don’t 100% agree with you. I’ve gotten more than one PM telling me they won’t post because of it.

Honestly I worry about the football side starting to chase prominent posters off more than this particular board due to this shift of “if you say anything negative about alabama then we are chasing you out of town” crowd starting to get a stronger say.

Here it’s basically the result of the Trumpers proving that they couldn’t even follow a very loosely moderated board’s rules and becoming butt hurt that they had their posting abilities revoked.

Yes some of the dialogue here becomes borderline locker room material but it’s like the old saying goes “if you can’t handle the heat then get out of the kitchen”.

 

[81usaf92]

What drives people away from this board is the group that requires adherence to their thoughts and what they believe to be true 100% or you are a conspiracy nut. I just don’t care what you think. This is an internet message board. You don’t affect me at all.

ive been here way longer than you and can honestly tell you that N18 and 92 were in the vast minority of posters on this side of the board. This board before 2015 was very lightly moderated and there was some expectation of sharper pushback on one’s opinions. I probably would say this board was overwhelmingly Bush conservative in nature. What changed was that in 2015-18 too many people started bringing Facebook and Twitter conspiracy theories onto the board and started personally attacking people. Eventually over half of the board was suspended or left because they were butt hurt that stricter moderation was needed to maintain some sense of “civility” because it just became uncontrollable chaos.

 

[NationalTitles18]

I agree they definitely help with serious illness and hospitalization.

No doubt.

How much they prevent infection is debatable. There are studies showing different rates.

Yeah, they have some effect but they have limited effectiveness preventing infection. This is why layering prevention strategies is important.

, but how dare I say that the neck gator things, cloth masks made by everyone’s Maw Maw, and poorly fitted surgical masks with your breath pouring out of the sides aren’t really that effective against an airborne respiratory virus that can easily pass through the fabric or out of the sides of the mask.

The gator things are shown to be not very effective.

So have poor fitting masks.

The evidence agrees with you on those points 100%.

The main problem is that a poor fitting or improperly worn mask is not all that effective.

And that speaks to the need for education and layered protection (masks plus vaccines plus...)

I had a close friend die from Covid. I had been telling him to get vaccinated, and he didn’t. I’m sure if he had he would be alive if he had.

I'm very sorry to hear that. I lost friends to this. A colleague's husband (both friends) died early on before vaccines were available. Several people I knew from school passed. A few came close.

What drives people away from this board is the group that requires adherence to their thoughts and what they believe to be true 100% or you are a conspiracy nut.

When someone uses conspiracy nuts to try to prove their point then that tells me they probably follow conspiracy thinking. When they say they are asking questions and only believe those who tell them what they want to hear while ignoring the weight of the evidence then that tells me they aren't looking to have those questions answered honestly. So it's not just that I assume these things - people reveal their thoughts in what they say so I don't have to fill in the blanks when they are so open about it.

If you are going to be open to truth you have to be willing to change your mind.

The medical community changed its collective mind several times on several issues.

Masks are one example.

Treatment with ventilators is another.

Early on masks were thought to be not very effective (based on the paltry evidence available at the time) and based on past experience with MERS and SARS early ventilation was thought to improve survival.

Both turned out to be wrong and the evidence proved it, so thoughts and practices changed with the evidence.

The people who get made by and large do so because they can't stand being told and shown how they are wrong - and they mostly go away believing in self righteousness that they are correct despite the evidence and that they were wronged because someone told them and showed evidence proving their position was not supported by evidence.

And yes, after a while the nonstop willful ignorance and arrogance get old so the responses to such silliness get shorter and more sarcastic.

But over the past day or so I feel that I have been fairly patient and took the time to explain why the presented "evidence" was not what it was purported to be and linked to explanations/studies of the evidence showing the facts of the matter.

And again it did not change the mind of the person hell bent on believing what they believe, evidence be damned.

And nevermind that it was that person who said things like "you just believe what you're told" while providing nothing to back that up.

And that goes back to projection and confession - not only in the statement itself but also the attacking nature of such a post. They claim to be victims for being told they are wrong and for people not always being the nicest when often they set the tone for that.