Dave Rader postgame comment!

[UACDM]

It seems a lot of people are jumping on Shula and Rader, but they did give those boys multiple chances. And in many cases they didn't convert the opportunity. Multiple times for Tiffin, but he is yound and thats the situation we find ourselves in. Jimmy Johns ran the ball inside the 10 on one play for what would hopefully have been a touchdown. What happened next, it was called back due to a holding call I believe on DJ Hall. Settle for a field goal try. We had as many penalties in one game as we have had all season and I don't think one penalty was called on Shula or Tiffin.

All of that to say that I wish Shula had called some different plays here and there, I wish Tiffin hadn't missed those kicks, I wish DJ had not gotten the penalty, I wish we had won. This is a TEAM loss anyway you look at it.

 

[Hawk324]

With all the talk about the "killer instinct" not being something this staff thinks about...

Where is the mention of this play?

Mustain throws an interception, caught by Dukes.
Next play, play action to DJ who didn't make the catch but Arkansas was called for PI. The ball, like a lot of them yesterday, was slightly under-thrown...it was all green in front of DJ...but, it was clear the play called was for a home-run. Which, like a few others yesterday would have put the game out of reach.

Let's see...late in the game, score tied, following a turnover, and the staff goes for a home run ball. I'd call that going to the jugular. No other way to describe it.

That's true Terry but here's the thing. Yes, we opened up the offense and did a fantastic job (imo) of passing the ball saturday. But then, all of a sudden they abandoned that aspect of our offense and went to a part of our game that just wasnt working very well. We had trouble running the ball. We've had trouble running the ball all season. And while I agree that we should strive to have a balanced offense, I wonder if maybe we went too conservative too quickly. I would have loved tohave seen our boys grind Arkansas into dust toward the end of the game, but we just arent capable of doing that this year. I dont know why, but we cant do it. Not yet, anyway.

I'm not calling for Shula's head on a platter, nor am i suggesting anyone be fired. That would just put us right back where we were a couple after Fran abandoned us. But it is frustrating to know that we should have scored many more points in that game, yet threw away the opportunity to do so by switching to a very conservative attack.

We are a mediocre team that lost to another mediocre team on Saturday.

 

[diehardfan78]

I've read this thread, and I can acknowledge the point that everyone's trying to make, but I have to take a side, and I will not pull any punches for several reasons. I thought the play calling was pretty good throughout the game, and my hats off to JPW, Keith Brown, DJ Hall, and Jimmy Johns. These guys played a really solid game, especially JPW, and didn't deserve to have the game lost on poor decision making by the coaching staff when the game was on the line. This is even more evident when you know you have Florida @ Florida coming up next week. Alabama will always be considered an elite SEC football team and the SEC has been ruled the best conference from top to bottom this year. You can't just try to set it up in the middle and kick a FG for the win all the time. This seems to be the Bama MO since I can remember, but anyone with sense knows you have to make a concerted effort to get the TD and if that fails then go for the FG. In the first OT, this should have been the case, and if so, Bama would likely have gotten the win, and been in a much better position to be going to Florida. Instead of going to FL to beat them, now the mentality is likely to prove that what happened at Arkansas was a fluke. At least this will be the case for Leigh Tiffin. This kid should not deserve this much pressure, and should not have been put in such a position. That fault does, regardless of what anyone says belong to the coaching staff. You mean to tell me that Christensen can kickoff, but not kick a FG. Especially a FG to win a hard fought game. That's what he does, and I'm sure he was thinking he'd get the call to give it a shot. The play calling in regulation was good, beside a few instances where Jimmy Johns should have been in the backfield. Darby is still the man, but he has to quit with the hop, skip, and jump mentality, and just hit the hole sometimes. My hats off to the O' Line as well. I think they played a pretty solid game. Everything wasn't to perfection, but then again it never is. No need to beat a dead horse though. Anyone up for Gator bait!

 

[SGC]

With all the talk about the "killer instinct" not being something this staff thinks about...

Where is the mention of this play?

Mustain throws an interception, caught by Dukes.
Next play, play action to DJ who didn't make the catch but Arkansas was called for PI. The ball, like a lot of them yesterday, was slightly under-thrown...it was all green in front of DJ...but, it was clear the play called was for a home-run. Which, like a few others yesterday would have put the game out of reach.

Let's see...late in the game, score tied, following a turnover, and the staff goes for a home run ball. I'd call that going to the jugular. No other way to describe it.

First of all, Terry, I'd imagine that JPW had several reads on that play, with DJ running the only "homerun" route. That said, the proof is in the pudding--once we got into FG range, Shula started calling plays like we had Jay Feely waiting on the sidelines to punch it through and win the game. Nevermind the fact that JPW was torching Arkansas through the air. That is most certainly not having a "killer instinct."

 

[Raistlin Majere]

Re: Dave Radar postgame comment!

So you admit that Shula is putting the game in Kines' hands? Defense is the reason that Bama won last year, not conservative play calling. Shula might have been playing to his strength, but his strength was Kines. Remember the TN game?

Again, not knocking Shula - giving Kines props...

Yes Kines can never get enough credit and I do think Shula calls a lot of plays close to vest because he knows more often than not the D will come through.

 

[Crimson Hawk]

You can't just try to set it up in the middle and kick a FG for the win all the time.

I think this was a solid strategy. Furthermore, there wouldn't be any carping if LT had made the kick.

“We were just going to put it in the middle and go home,” offensive coordinator Dave Rader said of the strategy.

All he's saying is that they were trying to milk the clock, leave the ball in the middle of the field, and let the kicker try to win it with a FG. What is so terrible about that? Like I said, solid strategy!

 

[crmsnrevelation]

this game really hurt more than any except the orange bowl against michigan. we now have a qb that can do it all. he was fantastic. as young and inexperienced as he is he made some great plays, especially on the 99 yard drive. we now have a dimension we have lacked for several years with injuries to brodie. the bad news is we have no running game now. i dont understand, how with the few changes on the offensive line, and the good rbs we still cant run. i do believe darby needs to run more north and south into the hole beforce making cuts. we owned arkansas in the air game. john picked them apart. dj and keith were as good a pair of receivers i have seen in a long time. i would have like to see a few possession passes to tight ends, but, i am afraid we need them to stay on the los to block. especially the right side. as for the missed opportunities to win. i have been watching football for over 50 years at all levels. the pros have players paid to make plays, so boo hoo on them when they miss. but, i would never put a pure freshman on the road into the position of winning not once, but twice. i would never concede 6 running plays up the middle giving up any chance for a first down or touchdown to the other team. our passing game was at its peak and i dont see anyway they could deny hall or brown in the end zone. i dont see darby up the gut, if you are going to run why not johns outside the big tackle smith. why not the jumbo backfield. i put this game on the coach, and i hope he learns to pick up the pace inside the red zone. he will gamble all over the field except in the red zone, and i think he has the qb now to do that.

I've read this thread, and I can acknowledge the point that everyone's trying to make, but I have to take a side, and I will not pull any punches for several reasons. I thought the play calling was pretty good throughout the game, and my hats off to JPW, Keith Brown, DJ Hall, and Jimmy Johns. These guys played a really solid game, especially JPW, and didn't deserve to have the game lost on poor decision making by the coaching staff when the game was on the line. This is even more evident when you know you have Florida @ Florida coming up next week. Alabama will always be considered an elite SEC football team and the SEC has been ruled the best conference from top to bottom this year. You can't just try to set it up in the middle and kick a FG for the win all the time. This seems to be the Bama MO since I can remember, but anyone with sense knows you have to make a concerted effort to get the TD and if that fails then go for the FG. In the first OT, this should have been the case, and if so, Bama would likely have gotten the win, and been in a much better position to be going to Florida. Instead of going to FL to beat them, now the mentality is likely to prove that what happened at Arkansas was a fluke. At least this will be the case for Leigh Tiffin. This kid should not deserve this much pressure, and should not have been put in such a position. That fault does, regardless of what anyone says belong to the coaching staff. You mean to tell me that Christensen can kickoff, but not kick a FG. Especially a FG to win a hard fought game. That's what he does, and I'm sure he was thinking he'd get the call to give it a shot. The play calling in regulation was good, beside a few instances where Jimmy Johns should have been in the backfield. Darby is still the man, but he has to quit with the hop, skip, and jump mentality, and just hit the hole sometimes. My hats off to the O' Line as well. I think they played a pretty solid game. Everything wasn't to perfection, but then again it never is. No need to beat a dead horse though. Anyone up for Gator bait!

decided not to read.
No paragraph structure. AHHHH I get lost in my dyslexia :biggrin:

 

[bayoutider]

You mean to tell me that Christensen can kickoff, but not kick a FG. Especially a FG to win a hard fought game. That's what he does, and I'm sure he was thinking he'd get the call to give it a shot.

Jamie has had a groin pull since Fall practice. He hasn't been practicing at the same level as Leigh. Kicking off uses a different set of muscles than kicking FGs and PATs, or so I have been told. Jamie has not told Coach Shula he is ready to resume those kicking duties. So, do we put in a guy who hasn't been kicking FGs for a couple of months or go with the guy who was ranked #3 in the NCAA just last week?

 

[BAMARICH]

Re: Dave Radar postgame comment!

Well, much to the distain of people on the forum I was making complaints over play calling in scoring position leading up to the game. I felt it could be the difference in the game and I was mocked. I feel it was the difference in the game and the only difference I see now is I'm not being mocked. I agree that had things turned out differently most people wouldn't complain and I would be in the minority but I don't think it makes the concerns any less valid.

Why don't you just come out and say, "I was right and everyone else was wrong" and gloat about the fact just a bit? Just because your arguments from last week were true in a portion of the game this week (i.e. late 4th quarter/OT) does not necessarily mean they were right for the first three games... which they weren't. When you go back and chart the plays in our first four games when we inside the red zone, I believe you would change your mind.

 

[TiderinMiss]

Re: Dave Radar postgame comment!

Can't believe that we lost today. Kines had the defense ready, but he can't win all of the games for us.

I called for 8 total wins this year (incuding the Bowl game), and we can still do that, though I expect to only be 7 - 5 at the end of the season.

Got to get ready for Florida. And for those that say that Florida is beatable, I agree - but we seem to be pretty beatable ourselves.

Three years ago, I would have never dreamed I would say this, but thank God for Joe Kines, and God help us if we lose him.

 

[EBTIDE]

I'm just a sick about the loss as everyone else is, but I waited twenty four
hours to post and kind of settle down, and looking back our offense and our
defense made enough plays to win that game, it was just one of those freak
days that teams have in the kicking game, it was like the barn and lsu last year, they have a really good kicker and he missed five in one game, any one of
those kicks would have won the game for the barn. So I feel really positive about the game this week, and if we beat the number five ranked gators we will feel alot better about our future

 

[KrAzY3]

Re: Dave Radar postgame comment!

Why don't you just come out and say, "I was right and everyone else was wrong" and gloat about the fact just a bit? Just because your arguments from last week were true in a portion of the game this week (i.e. late 4th quarter/OT) does not necessarily mean they were right for the first three games... which they weren't. When you go back and chart the plays in our first four games when we inside the red zone, I believe you would change your mind.

I can't say play calling in every game has been suspect in scoring position. I can't and I won't say that. I will say and did say I saw that happen in the Vandy game and I saw it happen in the Arkansas game. I have no doubt at all that this offense can do more, I just question the resolve to do that.

To bring back part of the old conversation (which got locked I believe) here's how it stands now. Mind you my point then was that the team's offensive capacity didn't match their scoring output and I thought suspect play calling in scoring position was the problem:
Total Offense 39
Scoring Offense 58

The "run it up the middle" in scoring position over and over thing didn't just start with last game, it was just more obvious then. The trend has carried over from last year even, it isn't new and while it isn't always the case it does happen too often. Sometimes Alabama gives up on trying to score a TD, despite kicking around 60% on FGs Shula continues to insist on shutting down the offense ON SOME DRIVES to settle for a FG, or just "playing it safe" with repeated runs up the middle (I saw it happen twice in a row at the Vandy game in scoring position and it resulted in a whopping 3 points then). That is a potential 14 points and Alabama ended up with 3. I do feel that type of mentality has resulted in a loss now. I know for a fact Alabama can attack the end zone and fortunately they did that some of the time or we wouldn't just talking about just one loss. My problem is that, especially when it isn't working the "run it up the middle" (quoting Rader and I do and did believe it is as simplistic and predictable as Rader made it sound) mentality can backfire on a team.

Just to put it in perspective a bit Alabama has:
4 Rushing TDs
7 Passing TDs
Now, Alabama has run 171 rushing plays and 101 passing plays.
Our opponents have run 99 rushing plays and 111 passing plays.

Given the ineffectiveness of the rushing game, I'd think we would see a more balanced attack. I also think if someone charts the plays you'd see the disparity grow within the 30 yard line.

 

[bamadoc94]

I just want to make sure I haven't missed something. Does it really take three runs to get the ball set up in the middle of the field. I always thought you could run the first two to the outside or wherever you thought the defense might be weakest. Maybe get another first down, or bust one for a TD. Then on third down you can run it to the middle to set up the FG. When did this philosophy change and what was the reasoning? Someone in the know please fill me in. I don't mind winning games with FG's but with this new twist I'm thinking maybe we should recruit a FG set up specialist. Preferably he would weigh about 275 lbs. and be capable of moving the line of scrimmage by himself. Just a thought.

 

[TerryP]

First of all, Terry, I'd imagine that JPW had several reads on that play, with DJ running the only "homerun" route. That said, the proof is in the pudding--once we got into FG range, Shula started calling plays like we had Jay Feely waiting on the sidelines to punch it through and win the game. Nevermind the fact that JPW was torching Arkansas through the air. That is most certainly not having a "killer instinct."

When I made that comment, it wasn't something I imagined, but something I observed.

We opened up that play in a Power-I, single TE set to the left side, with two wide-outs on the right...Brown and Hall. Brown went into motion. At the snap Brown was at the TE, ran 5 yards downfield and then ran a slant to practically the same position DJ was...just about 10 yards shorter. JPW looked off the safety, and went right to DJ.

It was a called play, to DJ...one we've seen before and will see again.

I tend to make it a point not to make an observation until I've actually observed something.

 

[bat123]

Jamie has had a groin pull since Fall practice. He hasn't been practicing at the same level as Leigh. Kicking off uses a different set of muscles than kicking FGs and PATs, or so I have been told. Jamie has not told Coach Shula he is ready to resume those kicking duties. So, do we put in a guy who hasn't been kicking FGs for a couple of months or go with the guy who was ranked #3 in the NCAA just last week?

This is a point most people don't or won't concede CMS says Jamie will kick when Jamie says he's ready.

 

[Crimson Hawk]

I just want to make sure I haven't missed something. Does it really take three runs to get the ball set up in the middle of the field. I always thought you could run the first two to the outside or wherever you thought the defense might be weakest. Maybe get another first down, or bust one for a TD. Then on third down you can run it to the middle to set up the FG. When did this philosophy change and what was the reasoning? Someone in the know please fill me in. I don't mind winning games with FG's but with this new twist I'm thinking maybe we should recruit a FG set up specialist. Preferably he would weigh about 275 lbs. and be capable of moving the line of scrimmage by himself. Just a thought.

No, but running the ball three times,takes the maximum amount of time off the clock, allowing the Piggies the shortest amount of time to score in. :wink:
At that point, I think CMS was not so much being conservative with his offense, but banking that A- Lt would make the field goal, & B- that CJK's D would hold.

 

[Boclive]

“We were just going to put it in the middle and go home,” offensive coordinator Dave Rader said of the strategy.

I have decided there are some things wrong with this statement. Here are 10 thoughts that should occur to ANY coach BEFORE calling for the kicker:

1. Always call on a kicker as a last resort and only after failing to convert the first down/touchdown.

2. Never breathe during the actual kick.

3. It is better not to watch the actual kick.

4. Never call on your kicker without remembering Garo Yepremian attempting to pass.

5. Always consider going for the first down/touchdown on forth down instead of attempting a kick.

6. Always remember that your kicker is really a soccer player.

7. Snapper.

8. Holder.

9. No tee.

10. Consider a FAKE field goal.

:redface:

 

[NYBamaFan]

I have decided there are some things wrong with this statement. Here are 10 thoughts that should occur to ANY coach BEFORE calling for the kicker:

1. Always call on a kicker as a last resort and only after failing to convert the first down/touchdown.

2. Never breathe during the actual kick.

3. It is better not to watch the actual kick.

4. Never call on your kicker without remembering Garo Yepremian attempting to pass.

5. Always consider going for the first down/touchdown on forth down instead of attempting a kick.

6. Always remember that your kicker is really a soccer player.

7. Snapper.

8. Holder.

9. No tee.

10. Consider a FAKE field goal.

:redface:

LOL - this has always been my philosophy. Funny as these points sound, the kicking game in HS and college is so weak that I am surprised when I see coaches put so much faith in them.

I have seen far more games lost by poor kicking in college than won by good kicking...

 

[TideMobileBay]

Re: Dave Radar postgame comment!

We need a real OC.

I am curious who do you think calls the plays during the game? Shula or Rader?

 

[BamaFan in Germantown]

Re: Dave Radar postgame comment!

I think he has "learned" how to go to 13-3 over the last 16 games which is pretty tough in the sec. He has faith in his players and staff while it didn't pay off for us this game it will in the future. Look at when he had JPW throwing out of his own endzone on back to back plays, a lot of people would say it was stupid to put a young qb in that position but it was just Shula having faith in his player. It seems to me that if they are on the field Shula feels that he can depend on them and imho that is what will bring bama back to the top. CMS will take us were we need to go but I know it is a tough loss to take. RTR

I hate to disagree, however, unless CMS changes, last year's 10-2 will be the best that we will ever see under Coach Shula. We will never win the big games under Shula.