Alabama QBs in 2024

[landonew]

Pretty much it doesn’t matter what you show him or say his mind is made up and he won’t see it any other way. Supposedly we are wrong for putting blame on milroe but he has done nothing but play the blame game with the offensive line while side stepping any milroe critism by posting coach speak and Vegas odds for a heisman as proof he’s right.

It's the opposite. Your minds have been made up since fall camp. JM finished 6th in the Heisman vote. What I am saying is the general consensus of both the public at large and our coaching staff. That's the reality of the situation.

 

[CB4]

Wow! I guess when the Head Coach has lost all seven previous bowl games taking such a crazy chance is conceivable. But, what a risk!

I coached high school tennis for 19 years. I never would have tried to have my players adopt completely different strategies or tactics right before Regionals (What was called "Sectionals" in the Southeast.) or State. It took me all season to get the boys to play using the strategies and tactics I instilled in them to GET THEM to those big season's end tournaments.

As a coach, I'd call that approach INSANE. But it worked ... Dagnabit!

I still put this on the O Line. Everything which was problematic with Bama's offense centered on line play.

I guess you missed the 1973 Sugar Bowl which Alabama lost 24-23 to Ara Parseghian and Notre Dame? Ara, in those three weeks had noticed have heavily Alabama’s defense “flowed” with motion of the offense. So he implemented a bunch of misdirection run plays back against the offensive flow. And they broke numerous significant runs against us. He exploited one of the very things that had always been a defensive strength for us…speed and pursuit… against us.

Everyone thinks back to third down thrown by Tom Clements to TE Robin Weber (over Tyrone King) from their own goal line as “risky”. The real “risk” was Ara taking the chance on implementing that much misdirection in his game plan. It easily could have blown up on him. I always credit that change, as much as anything, putting them in position to win.

And going forward, almost every team we faced attempted some form of misdirection based on Notre Dame’s success that night.

 

[Rocky Mtn Bob]

I guess you missed the 1973 Sugar Bowl which Alabama lost 24-23 to Ara Parseghian and Notre Dame?

Nope. That's a big part of why I detest Notre Dame to this day.

You actually reinforced my point. It was a risky gameplan on Michigan's part ... but sadly, it worked. I still say an OL more adept at the basics should have been able to adjust. They didn't.

 

[CB4]

Nope. That's a big part of why I detest Notre Dame to this day.

You actually reinforced my point. It was a risky gameplan on Michigan's part ... but sadly, it worked. I still say an OL more adept at the basics should have been able to adjust. They didn't.

“If necessity is the mother of invention, then desperation is surely the father.”

Our Oline play has been less than stellar the last three seasons. The biggest difference in 2021 and 2022 was a generational quarterback in Bryce Young. His ability to get in and out of plays, recognize where pressure was coming from, the secondary coverage and get to the “hot” read was nothing short of amazing. Why do you think in those seasons Bryce came so close to letting the play clock run out? The guy processed everything.

I guarantee you this. Michigan won’t gamble with a bunch of pressure packages like that against Washington. Michael Penix will eat them alive.

 

[landonew]

Talking about problems for a unit (o-line, secondary., RB’s) and laying out collective criticism instead of individual players or giving the opponent credit for superior execution is classic “coach speak”. As an example, the final play - when asked about it CNS could have easily said “Yeah the play was counter left, and Latham got blown up on the right. The snap was a little low, Jalen was suppose to follow the pulling guard to the left. But instead took it directly up the middle…” But instead he said “We didn’t get it blocked…”

The "coach speak" point is actually a pretty good one. What about the actions of his teammates -- why haven't our WRs and TEs hit the transfer portal? Do you think they are returning to play with such a severely limited QB? If he's that limited, there'd have been a mass exodus.

There are two possible scenarios. Either you guys have observed shortcomings on broadcast television that JM's teammates and coaches have missed. Or you guys have convinced each other, through group think and confirmation bias, that JM is more limited than he actually is.

 

[RammerJammer14]

Wow! I guess when the Head Coach has lost all seven previous bowl games taking such a crazy chance is conceivable. But, what a risk!

I coached high school tennis for 19 years. I never would have tried to have my players adopt completely different strategies or tactics right before Regionals (What was called "Sectionals" in the Southeast.) or State. It took me all season to get the boys to play using the strategies and tactics I instilled in them to GET THEM to those big season's end tournaments.

As a coach, I'd call that approach INSANE. But it worked ... Dagnabit!

I still put this on the O Line. Everything which was problematic with Bama's offense centered on line play.

This is why I think Michigan loses to Washington. They put A LOT of energy into beating Bama. Just like TCU put all of their energy into beating Michigan last year. They’ve used up all of their tricks.

 

[landonew]

“If necessity is the mother of invention, then desperation is surely the father.”

Our Oline play has been less than stellar the last three seasons. The biggest difference in 2021 and 2022 was a generational quarterback in Bryce Young. His ability to get in and out of plays, recognize where pressure was coming from, the secondary coverage and get to the “hot” read was nothing short of amazing. Why do you think in those seasons Bryce came so close to letting the play clock run out? The guy processed everything.

I guarantee you this. Michigan won’t gamble with a bunch of pressure packages like that against Washington. Michael Penix will eat them alive.

Bryce young was sacked 47 times during 2022. BY was a generational talent and I'm not trying to revisit the comparison between JM and BY. But what you're saying is not accurate.

 

[JDCrimson]

Yall need to quit feeding the trolls... If I could read a thread and ignore certain poster(s), I would.

Based on what I have seen through and knowing coming into the season that Milroe would actually be in the competition for starting QB in 2023, I have wondered what Milroe actually worked on over the summer? What has he worked on the last 3 years? So now, he thinks he is going to cram learn how to be a QB? This young man, even without the support of Bob has not used his time wisely at Bama.

I don't have to bet on Vegas odds on whether Milroe will win the Heisman. I had the option through Tide Pride to buy tickets to the SECX and each CFP game. I didn't because after the Auburn game and the way we won I didn't want to risk my hard earned money on watching this team play like a circus high wire act on offense.

 

[irvingtontide]

It's the opposite. Your minds have been made up since fall camp. JM finished 6th in the Heisman vote. What I am saying is the general consensus of both the public at large and our coaching staff. That's the reality of the situation.

Look when you put the tape on and honestly look at it you can see Jalen milroe has a lot of holes in the passing game. You can keep refusing to see that and claim everybody else is wrong and you’re right. We will just have to disagree on this.

I also don’t think that is the reality of the staff or why else would you try a different starter in game 3 and change the offense mid season.

 

[CB4]

The "coach speak" point is actually a pretty good one. What about the actions of his teammates -- why haven't our WRs and TEs hit the transfer portal? Do you think they are returning to play with such a severely limited QB? If he's that limited, there'd have been a mass exodus.

There are two possible scenarios. Either you guys have observed shortcomings on broadcast television that JM's teammates and coaches have missed. Or you guys have convinced each other, through group think and confirmation bias, that JM is more limited than he actually is.

See this is exactly the type of tunnel vision you have. Ever fathom a scenario where some of this players may actually wait until the portal opens in May, after Spring Practice to make a decision? Ever take into consideration that there are some on this board, many of which you have been tremendously terse and condescending towards, may have more insight as to what is really going on in the program?

I’ve been a poster here for over ten years. One of things I learned early on was there ARE people on this board whose knowledge and perspectives in terms of the program and the game itself are far superior to what you or I could even begin to consider. I learned there are certain posters here that, if they say something, you can bank on it. These folks aren’t keyboard warriors or the group think cultists as you may believe.
You would be well served to take it down a notch and step back from the keyboard for while.

 

[landonew]

Look when you put the tape on and honestly look at it you can see Jalen milroe has a lot of holes in the passing game. You can keep refusing to see that and claim everybody else is wrong and you’re right. We will just have to disagree on this.

I also don’t think that is the reality of the staff or why else would you try a different starter in game 3 and change the offense mid season.

JM has limitations as a passer. I’m not debating that. What I’m saying is that moderate improvement in both areas (accuracy and reading defenses) will allow JM to mature into an effective passer. And that JM as an effective passer would be an elite dual threat QB. Similar to Cam Newton, Vince Young and Jameis Winston. I think that’s the potential CNS sees in JM, as I cannot imagine any other reason he’d have chosen JM over TS after USF.

If people think I’m saying JM is a polished QB, they’re misunderstanding me. I’m saying he’s got a very high ceiling and that the offseason improvements he needs to make are attainable.

 

[CrimsonTitles]

Not for nothing - how old is Penix? Not making excuses for JM but I doubt Penix was doing that 2-3 years ago. Plus he’s got a couple of seasons’ experience as a starting QB; this ain’t apples to apples.
If JM is still around in two years, could he do that? We’ll never know.
Yes, that’s what you want your QB to do; not many 1st year starters can.
This is an excellent example of doing the right thing, but expecting JM to have that skill set in his tool kit, at this point in time, isn’t reasonable. But he missed a lot and made bad decisions, and this is the result. All he can do at this point is learn, and from the last two seasons it is reasonable to judge that curve as “not steep”.

To be fair, some on here were saying he was better than Penix a few weeks ago.

 

[HighlandOak]

As an Alumni of Alabama, I think it's very important that our fanebase support our players. Objective criticism is fine, but you know good and well that's not what has gone on here over the last 4-6 months. We have posters telling him to hit the portal, saying he is "not a QB" (i.e., implying that he's not "smart" enough to play QB).

It's disrespectful and it gets back to and affects our players.

https://www.instagram.com/reel/C0aMPLAOLls/

If he, or any other player on our team, lets negative posts on a message board affect their play, then they need to hit the portal because they're not cut out for big boy NFL-Lite football.

And, before you ask . . . I think he needs to either change positions or hit the portal because of his limitations that have already been mentioned ad nauseum in this thread, and others.

 

[HighlandOak]

The "coach speak" point is actually a pretty good one. What about the actions of his teammates -- why haven't our WRs and TEs hit the transfer portal? Do you think they are returning to play with such a severely limited QB? If he's that limited, there'd have been a mass exodus.

There are two possible scenarios. Either you guys have observed shortcomings on broadcast television that JM's teammates and coaches have missed. Or you guys have convinced each other, through group think and confirmation bias, that JM is more limited than he actually is.

Or, the WRs and TEs know Sayin will be here for next seasons.

 

[Cruloc]

This is a solid explanation, thank you. What I think is that every defensive scheme attempts to disguise pressure. When the disguise is effective, it's a "ghost" blitz; when it's not effective, it's a predictable "look." That's not to say your explanation does not have merit. I just do not buy that our O-Line's lack of protection during the Rose Bowl was somehow manifested by JM's limitations as a passer. And I do not want to get into a long debate about that, as that debate would be based largely on speculation. I will acknowledge that a more polished QB might be able to help redirect protection, or audible/bring motion to alleviate the play. I also think JM scrambled/rushed for 100+ yds (not counting yds lost during sacks), and that very few QBs are dynamic enough to add that type of production with their legs.

If a seasoned coach and a talented defense know a QB can't make certain throws and can't read their defense or coverages.....he's easy to defend. That puts pressure on the entire offense....yes, even the OL.

They did what they did to Milroe based on game film. They knew exactly what to do. Bring pressure, play deep. The kid couldn't adjust and played scared.

The offense was limited all year because of the limitations at QB.

The OL had their own issues, but a lot of their issues are because of the limitations at QB.

 

[BamaMoon]

JM has limitations as a passer. I’m not debating that. What I’m saying is that moderate improvement in both areas (accuracy and reading defenses) will allow JM to mature into an effective passer. And that JM as an effective passer would be an elite dual threat QB. Similar to Cam Newton, Vince Young and Jameis Winston. I think that’s the potential CNS sees in JM, as I cannot imagine any other reason he’d have chosen JM over TS after USF.

If people think I’m saying JM is a polished QB, they’re misunderstanding me. I’m saying he’s got a very high ceiling and that the offseason improvements he needs to make are attainable.

Yes, he's limited as a passer. Very limited.

But perhaps an even bigger problem is he's limited as a runner! Did you catch the AJM interview where he said JM needs to accept he's not a passing QB but a running one? He didn't mean Jalen can't pass at all. He meant he needs to actually embrace that his legs are his biggest attributes.

Yes, he's dual threat, but he hasn't yet even learned the basics of being "dual threat." He had the RPO "reads" taken away from him because he can't even make the most basic give/keep read a QB needs to make.

Not only is that a HUGE issue, it's symbolic of the bigger picture that he really struggles with basic field vision.

And, you'll probably respond with some video of Jalen running the ball a few times this year. Yeah, we've already seen it. But the point is all the time he should have run it (before getting sacked) OR if he could have made the RPO basic read he'd still be running on some of the plays that had zero yards gained. Whatever his running stats were (not even counting his sack yardage that is subtracted from rushing yards) if he could have performed this basic function this year you could probably triple those rushing yards.

So his "limitations" as a passer aren't even the first thing on the list to fix. It's his running. And what's somewhat troubling is I'm afraid he may not understand that based on some of his comments (repeated by sideline reporters this year) that he doesn't practice running because he can already do that. Well, no, he really can't in the sense he needs to.

 

[CajunCrimson]

As I mentioned in another thread, Bama doesn’t need a dual threat qb. We have actually too much talent to need one. You need a QB that can run when needed. But when you have elite specialists, let them be special.

Bryce, Tua, Mac all threw receivers open. I only remember seeing one this year, and it was Ty Vs Kentucky. Milroe’s deep passes, while accurate were mostly the receiver adjusting post throw and fighting for the catch.

 

[B1GTide]

Saban should have been as hard on Milroe in the media as he was the offensive line. His comments about providing Milroe with more time are fair, but he also knows that the defense was running a zone with 2 deep safeties, and that Milroe was not going to be able to complete those passes anyway. So he bags the offensive line and gives Milroe a pass in the media.

This has been his MO forever. Probably about protecting the confidence of the QB. But the offensive line is probably tired of hearing it.

Yes, the offensive line was a mess this year. But they had no one to make the calls adjusting to defenses. The center was a basket case, and the QB was simply incapable of seeing the adjustments that were necessary. So protections broke down on almost every play.

So, if a QB cannot make the adjustments, whose fault is it that he gets sacked or pressured? The offensive line, or his own? Or the coaches?

You have to put players in a position to succeed. Alabama tried to do that this year by never allowing Milroe to make calls. Why Saban made that choice is beyond me. I would have taken the losses while teaching a real QB.

 

[BamaMoon]

As I mentioned in another thread, Bama doesn’t need a dual threat qb. We have actually too much talent to need one. You need a QB that can run when needed. But when you have elite specialists, let them be special.

Bryce, Tua, Mac all threw receivers open. I only remember seeing one this year, and it was Ty Vs Kentucky. Milroe’s deep passes, while accurate were mostly the receiver adjusting post throw and fighting for the catch.

Somebody compared him to Nick Marshall. Great comparison.

I agree with your post. Mine above it is just stating the obvious that if JM is going to be our QB, he must learn to use his legs.

I personally am ready to see another sharp shooter behind center throwing pinpoint passes to these playmakers so their speed and agility can be unleashed. If JM can become that guy then bring it. If not, step aside.

 

[CajunCrimson]

Saban should have been as hard on Milroe in the media as he was the offensive line. His comments about providing Milroe with more time are fair, but he also knows that the defense was running a zone with 2 deep safeties, and that Milroe was not going to be able to complete those passes anyway. So he bags the offensive line and gives Milroe a pass in the media.

This has been his MO forever. Probably about protecting the confidence of the QB. But the offensive line is probably tired of hearing it.

Yes, the offensive line was a mess this year. But they had no one to make the calls adjusting to defenses. The center was a basket case, and the QB was simply incapable of seeing the adjustments that were necessary. So protections broke down on almost every play.

So, if a QB cannot make the adjustments, whose fault is it that he gets sacked or pressured? The offensive line, or his own? Or the coaches?

You have to put players in a position to succeed. Alabama tried to do that this year by never allowing Milroe to make calls. Why Saban made that choice is beyond me. I would have taken the losses while teaching a real QB.

Ty was supposed to be ready. He wasn’t. Saban had limited options and chose to draw to an inside straight and then bluff his way to the win. It didn’t work