Trump's Policies Part 5

[2003TIDE]

Europe isn't allowing their populations to be poisoned by the food they eat and they aren't giant fat people. Our kids are obese and pre-diabetic. You good with RFK jr. cleaning out the food industry?

RFK Jr is a quack, but I do agree with him on food(not talking about the eating roadkill part.) Problem is people lost their minds when Michelle Obama tried to make their kids eat healthier. Maybe it will take better if it comes from a MAGA nutjob. Personally I'm fine with cleaning up the food industry if we look into why there is a difference between the US and Europe and realize the science . Someone needs to tell voters though "you are fat and that is part of the reason our debt is high." If we want to ban HFCS, artifical food colorings, certain pesticides, and clamp down on food additives in general, I'm 100% ok with that. I feel like my family eats pretty healthy and we would barely notice.

All the Medicaid talk above reminds me of recent trip to nursing home in Alabama visting a relative. Every other person in there was an overweight diabetic with a limb amputated and everyone wonders why Medicaid spending is so high.....

Are you ready in 2037 to cut grandma's SS check by 24%? I'm not. You think we can raise taxes that much and just cover it? That will wreck many working families and small businesses. Everything will get more expensive because just like businesses aren't going to eat the tariffs they won't eat a tax increase either. Something has to be done now to work towards solvency for SS and no one is doing anything. Wait until that $2,000 check is $1,500. Let me know how that is received. That's the hair on fire moment.

It is really not that hard. My post on this 3 policy threads ago.

We can't fix the root cause and not hurt corporate profits so we just try and fix the symptom and pretend we did something. A perfect example is health and healthcare in the US. We are pushing 20% of GDP on healthcare spending in the US. We spent $4.9T in 2024. The US government spent $1.9T of that. Why not try and reduce spending by addressing why costs are so high vs just cutting programs and making people suffer and or die? Europe averages around 10% of GDP and a lot of those countries have higher life expectancies than the US. If we could be at 10% that is almost a Trillion dollars right there without making a single cut.

On the revenue side if we let all the Trump tax cuts expire that will increase revenue ~$600B a year. So between that healthcare you've made it probably 2/3's of the way through the 1.83T deficit without a single program cut.

 

[AWRTR]

RFK Jr is a quack, but I do agree with him on food(not talking about the eating roadkill part.) Problem is people lost their minds when Michelle Obama tried to make their kids eat healthier. Maybe it will take better if it comes from a MAGA nutjob. Personally I'm fine with cleaning up the food industry if we look into why there is a difference between the US and Europe and realize the science . Someone needs to tell voters though "you are fat and that is part of the reason our debt is high." If we want to ban HFCS, artifical food colorings, certain pesticides, and clamp down on food additives in general, I'm 100% ok with that. I feel like my family eats pretty healthy and we would barely notice.

All the Medicaid talk above reminds me of recent trip to nursing home in Alabama visting a relative. Every other person in there was an overweight diabetic with a limb amputated and everyone wonders why Medicaid spending is so high.....



It is really not that hard. My post on this 3 policy threads ago.

I actually think we agree on much of this. This goes back to spineless politicians that won’t make a hard unpopular decision. No one is goin to tell the American people their fat butts are part of the problem. They also don’t seem keen to take on big pharma and the food industry. All of that needs to happen. You may be right about the tax cuts, but are you or any politician ready for the recession that will trigger? It may be long term good but is either party ready for the short to medium term pain? My man point is No one will make any hard decisions. You proposed several that I think would help but short term will be hard.

 

[mdb-tpet]

RFK Jr is a quack, but I do agree with him on food(not talking about the eating roadkill part.) Problem is people lost their minds when Michelle Obama tried to make their kids eat healthier. Maybe it will take better if it comes from a MAGA nutjob. Personally I'm fine with cleaning up the food industry if we look into why there is a difference between the US and Europe and realize the science . Someone needs to tell voters though "you are fat and that is part of the reason our debt is high." If we want to ban HFCS, artifical food colorings, certain pesticides, and clamp down on food additives in general, I'm 100% ok with that. I feel like my family eats pretty healthy and we would barely notice.

All the Medicaid talk above reminds me of recent trip to nursing home in Alabama visting a relative. Every other person in there was an overweight diabetic with a limb amputated and everyone wonders why Medicaid spending is so high.....



It is really not that hard. My post on this 3 policy threads ago.

Nothing nationally substantial will change for the better with respect to food, health, or the like until we move away from the standard that the only goal of corporations is profit. Seriously, if our goal is to truly maximize profits for corporations, then anything and everything that has a cost will be minimized, including safety, testing, nutrition, pests, etc. and only things that improve profitability like shelf life, pesticide use, appearance of food, taste, addictiveness, ship-ability, subsidies etc.

I don't disagree with RFK Jr. on fixing some of these things, but like so many in the magasphere he's kinda throwing darts in the wind randomly hitting some good things and missing wildly on others. There's nothing wrong with seed oils that isn't wrong with any other typical oil source. We should eliminate food dyes, as they are dumb and encourage non-whole food, non-nutritional food consumption.

 

[mdb-tpet]

Republicans have done what they always do: talk a good game about reducing spending, them spend like drunken sailors.
View attachment 50897
"Same as it ever was."

All you need to know about the GOP foxes in the hen house you can learn from Florida's esteemed Senator and former governor Rick Scott and his fraud cases.

Rick Scott | Biography, Hospital Chain, Medicare Fraud, Governor, Senator, & Facts | Britannica

Rick Scott is an American Republican politician who was elected to represent the state of Florida in the U.S. Senate in 2018. He had previously served as governor of the state (2011–19).

www.britannica.com

 

[Tidewater]

All you need to know about the GOP foxes in the hen house you can learn from Florida's esteemed Senator and former governor Rick Scott and his fraud cases.

Rick Scott | Biography, Hospital Chain, Medicare Fraud, Governor, Senator, & Facts | Britannica

Rick Scott is an American Republican politician who was elected to represent the state of Florida in the U.S. Senate in 2018. He had previously served as governor of the state (2011–19).

www.britannica.com

It seems to me that both parties are in a contest to see how egregious their behaviour can be.
Honestly, a meteor smashing into Washington would be the greatest blessing the Almighty has bestowed on these United States since the founding of the republic.

 

[Bamabuzzard]

Legit point.

I'm guessing that some people don't want the money to be recouped because the money would come out of their own pockets. For instance, Trump himself is under an IRS audit as a result of some questionable deductions (resulting in a $72.9 million tax refund) on some tax returns.

IRS Audit of Trump Could Cost Former President More Than $100 Million

The tax agency concluded in its long-running investigation that Trump effectively claimed the same massive write-off twice on his failed Chicago tower.

www.propublica.org

IRS Audit of Trump Could Cost Former President More Than $100 Million

Oh, I'm certain that's what it is. It's not like we just realized we've improperly paid trillions of dollars or that we've lost billions in tax revenue due to fraud. The government has known it for years, over multiple administrations, that this has gone on. I'm sure there's been no rush to investigate and recoup because we'd find out it included people in office. We've got the foxes guarding the hen houses.

 

[CrimsonJazz]

It seems to me that both parties are in a contest to see how egregious their behaviour can be.
Honestly, a meteor smashing into Washington would be the greatest blessing the Almighty has bestowed on these United States since the founding of the republic.

Granted, it's pretty bleak and a lot of people talk about a reset for our government, but I shudder to think how that would go. We no longer have the wisdom and foresight of the founding fathers except what we read about. Is there any one person in D.C. who can even come close to that standard?

 

[75thru79]

So we know we lost $700 billion in tax fraud, yet somehow can't recoup it? I'm going to need an explanation on that. We've paid $2.8 trillion in improper benefits (possibly much higher) since 2003, which covers multiple administrations that include both Democrats and Republicans. Again, why can't we recoup it if we know the benefits were erroneously paid out?

You are mixing fraudulent payments with a fraudulent lack of tax revenues. They aren't even close to the same thing. With fraudulent outflows you know exact population of potential frauds. If the government has spent $500 trillion dollars since 2003 (totally made up #) then the absolute maximum of the fraud would be $500 trillion. The GAO has estimated that the fraud is actually $2.8 trillion but keep in mind this is just an estimate. Who knows how accurate they are.

Tax fraud means taxpayers did not pay what they legally owed. It doesn't mean money was paid out, it means money was not received. Who knows how accurate this estimate is. The only way to know would be to do a comprehensive audit of every single taxpayer. I'm sure the number is really high. It may very well be $700 billion. It may be even more. All I can tell you is that you had better hope you never get audited. I was audited about 40 years ago and it was a total nightmare. I don't know why I was audited. I only made about $20,000 that year. When the examiner looked at my return they said I owed another $2,000 in taxes because I deducted moving expenses above and beyond the cost. They were wrong. I showed the examiner the section of the code that allowed me to deduct closing costs on my new house as moving expenses. They weren't in agreement nor was the agents supervisor or that person's supervisor. I finally got through to the regional audit supervisor and they cancelled the claim. I never got an apology for the six months out of my life I had to dedicate to this. The IRS can go to where the sun doesn't shine.

 

[75thru79]

Seriously, if our goal is to truly maximize profits for corporations

If we want the food companies to stop using additives, food dyes, etc., then the answer is to demand it and if they don't comply then we stop buying their product. It's really very simple. Companies will almost always do what their customers demand. If not, they'll go out of business. I know this sounds really simple but it works. The problem is, deep down, most of us don't really want healthy food. It is expensive (no preservatives mean more spoilage), people want their red M&Ms to be bright red and they want all the sodium added because it makes things tasted good.

 

[Bamabuzzard]

You are mixing fraudulent payments with a fraudulent lack of tax revenues. They aren't even close to the same thing. With fraudulent outflows you know exact population of potential frauds. If the government has spent $500 trillion dollars since 2003 (totally made up #) then the absolute maximum of the fraud would be $500 trillion. The GAO has estimated that the fraud is actually $2.8 trillion but keep in mind this is just an estimate. Who knows how accurate they are.

I understand the difference, and my point remains. People fraudulently filling out tax returns are underpaying the taxes they owe and possibly receiving money via refunds they aren't entitled to. If the government KNOWS this enough to put an estimate on it, then it tells me they've found enough evidence of it and yet aren't doing anything about it. They don't just pull a number like that out of thin air without having some form of basis for that number.

Tax fraud means taxpayers did not pay what they legally owed. It doesn't mean money was paid out, it means money was not received.

If the tax fraud generated refunds (which I'm sure many of them do), they certainly do pay out money. It's actually a double whammy because not only were taxes not received from the taxpayer, but the government paid money to the taxpayer they never actually paid in.

 

[75thru79]

If the tax fraud generated refunds (which I'm sure many of them do), they certainly do pay out money. It's actually a double whammy because not only were taxes not received from the taxpayer, but the government paid money to the taxpayer they never actually paid in.

I'm pretty sure most of the $700 billion is people not paying what they owe due to not reporting income or taking fraudulent deductions. There may be instances where people claim a refund of all their withholdings due to fraud but I would argue that is a drop in the bucket compared to fraud from underreporting of income. These are largely small business owners and the independently wealthy who make estimated payments, not payroll withholding. Why would you make an estimated payment if you are just going to ask for it back when your fraud comes through? Underreporting is the biggest problem. It's also the hardest to prove.

 

[Crimson1967]

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/donald-trump-jr-running-president-that-calling-is-there-2025-05-21/

Scary notion.

 

[Bamabuzzard]

I'm pretty sure most of the $700 billion is people not paying what they owe due to not reporting income or taking fraudulent deductions. There may be instances where people claim a refund of all their withholdings due to fraud but I would argue that is a drop in the bucket compared to fraud from underreporting of income. These are largely small business owners and the independently wealthy who make estimated payments, not payroll withholding. Why would you make an estimated payment if you are just going to ask for it back when your fraud comes through? Underreporting is the biggest problem. It's also the hardest to prove.

Then it begs the question, what have all those IRS agents who have been employed (before Trump cut several thousand) been doing all these years? My god that's their sole responsibility is to guard the tax law and ensure the proper amount of taxes are paid. Underreporting income happens, but it isn't impossible to prove. I'd also point to the complexity of the tax law, where you've got the uber-rich and their CPA's (who are ten times smarter than the people at the IRS looking at the returns) taking deductions and credits on very complex tax returns that can lower tax liabilities by the million upon millions per taxpayer/business. I promise you, the average IRS agent wouldn't be able to decipher whether many of those credits and deductions were legit or not.

 

[Bamaro]

The Big Beautiful Pile of just passed the House of R

 

[Huckleberry]

After promising not to cut Medicaid, Trump starts pointing to the fine print

Trump promised Americans that Medicaid would go untouched in his second term. Now he's trying to explain why he's going back on this word. It's not going well.

www.msnbc.com

After promising not to cut Medicaid, Trump starts pointing to the fine print
The president promised Americans that Medicaid would go untouched in his second term. Now he's trying to explain why he's going back on this word.



Trump is a liar, insisting on spouting the same racist nonsense that his supporters love. And these are the cuts conservatives want, so they don’t care. Hopefully, rational voters will hold the GOP accountable next year.

 

[2003TIDE]

The Big Beautiful Pile of just passed the House of R

And as expected

Loading…

www.cnn.com

 

[75thru79]

Then it begs the question, what have all those IRS agents who have been employed (before Trump cut several thousand) been doing all these years? My god that's their sole responsibility is to guard the tax law and ensure the proper amount of taxes are paid. Underreporting income happens, but it isn't impossible to prove.

The existing cadre of IRS examiners is currently overwhelmed but less so than they were 20 years ago. The mandatory 1099 rules and other technology has made it harder to cheat but make no mistake, there is plenty of cheating going on. Although there are ways to catch underreporting of income it is extremely difficult to prove absent some sort of electronic record. If you are just pocketing cash and not reporting it this is almost impossible to prove unless 1) you get greedy and exclude too much or 2) get ratted out by an insider.

A little anecdote. Back in the early 80s I worked in downtown Birmingham and there was an awesome meat and potatoes type restaurant called John's (I believe that was the name). The place was packed every single day. They were so busy the lady sat at the cash register and didn't bother to ring up your ticket. She would just take your cash and make change. I always thought something fishy was going on.
A few years later the proprietor dies and they decide to sell the restaurant. When they were going through the due diligence with a prospective buyer they revealed to the buyer that cash sales were actually much higher. Dude reported them to the IRS and they ended up taking the restaurant for payment of back taxes. If the owner had not leaked scheme who knows if they would have ever been caught.

 

[2003TIDE]

I actually think we agree on much of this.

Dang I need to quit Tidefans now and retire.

 

[jthomas666]

Hopefully, rational voters will hold the GOP accountable next year.

Rational voters will; the question now becomes, "just how many irrational voters are there?"

I fear we may not like the answer.

 

[CrimsonJazz]

Rational voters will; the question now becomes, "just how many irrational voters are there?"

I fear we may not like the answer.

Between the people who still trust the legacy media and the people who get their "news" from the tin foil-hatters, the answer is: very few.