Israel launches preemptive attacks against Iran (US bombs Iran)...

[81usaf92]

My read on Trump is that he does not want to drop anything on them.
Whacking Suleimani, the IRGC guy, while he is inside Iraq is one thing. Bombing Iranians inside Iran would be another.

I think if he does then it ends horribly for us. Iran would be a worse headache in the aftermath of a US intervention than Iraq was. My read is that he thought either Bibi wouldn’t do it, or he was led to believe that Iran would capitulate after a few bombs were dropped on nuclear sites.

But it goes back to my overall view on it in terms of us. If Israel was attacked for no reason by Iran, then send the jets towards Tehran. But If Israel wants to pick a fight with Iran on their own then Israel should finish the fight without us. We should stop supporting everything that Israel wants to do just because we have guilt from the 30’s or some religious people here constantly believe we should “defend god’s people”. Israel does alot of things on their own to provoke the response from the Islamic world too, and it’s way past time that we should start having real discussions about it.

 

[bamaga]

I think if he does then it ends horribly for us. Iran would be a worse headache in the aftermath of a US intervention than Iraq was. My read is that he thought either Bibi wouldn’t do it, or he was led to believe that Iran would capitulate after a few bombs were dropped on nuclear sites.

But it goes back to my overall view on it in terms of us. If Israel was attacked for no reason by Iran, then send the jets towards Tehran. But If Israel wants to pick a fight with Iran on their own then Israel should finish the fight without us. We should stop supporting everything that Israel wants to do just because we have guilt from the 30’s or some religious people here constantly believe we should “defend god’s people”. Israel does alot of things on their own to provoke the response from the Islamic world too, and it’s way past time that we should start having real discussions about it.

You think Israel had no reason? The non-state proxy partners alone could be reason, imagine Hamas or Hezbollah or even the Houthis with a tactical nuclear weapon. I agree with the sentiment that Iran should never have Nuclear weapons. Their actions could be justified in that sense, Im just not sure about a continued war or regime change in Tehran and would that would mean for the region.

 

[Tidewater]

I think if he does then it ends horribly for us. Iran would be a worse headache in the aftermath of a US intervention than Iraq was. My read is that he thought either Bibi wouldn’t do it, or he was led to believe that Iran would capitulate after a few bombs were dropped on nuclear sites.

But it goes back to my overall view on it in terms of us. If Israel was attacked for no reason by Iran, then send the jets towards Tehran. But If Israel wants to pick a fight with Iran on their own then Israel should finish the fight without us. We should stop supporting everything that Israel wants to do just because we have guilt from the 30’s or some religious people here constantly believe we should “defend god’s people”. Israel does alot of things on their own to provoke the response from the Islamic world too, and it’s way past time that we should start having real discussions about it.

Not every war must be prusued until unconditional surrender. Most do not.
I think Israel has achieved what they set out to do, while the getting was good..
They asked the US for MOPs for extra assurance.

 

[81usaf92]

You think Israel had no reason? The non-state proxy partners alone could be reason, imagine Hamas or Hezbollah or even the Houthis with a tactical nuclear weapon. I agree with the sentiment that Iran should never have Nuclear weapons. Their actions could be justified in that sense, Im just not sure about a continued war or regime change in Tehran and would that would mean for the region.

The State of Iran has not attacked Israel until Israel attacked them . Yes they have supported non state actors and hostile states against Israel. Israel using non state actors supported by Iran as a justification to attack Iran unprovoked is like the US attacking Russia for Vietnam.

As far as terrorists getting their hands on a nuclear weapon… Again the collapse of the Soviet Union really goes against that theory in a huge way. I just have my doubts a government that used that much of their resources in building one would let one go to a bunch of incompetent extremists.

 

[TIDE-HSV]

Not every war must be prusued until unconditional surrender. Most do not.
I think Israel has achieved what they set out to do, while the getting was good..
They asked the US for MOPs for extra assurance.

This bothers me. Bibi knew already they had nothing which would touch Fordow (or however you want to spell it). They don't even have a plane which could carry a MOP. 5K is the max any of their planes can carry. The B2 can carry only two, since they weight 30,000 lb. Does this mean that Bibi assumed all along he could drag us into this? If so, then he's started something he knew all along they couldn't finish...

 

[Isaiah 63:1]

It’s not possible without the US and/or Russian involvement. So you are effectively talking about a forced regime change or diplomatic intervention. Israel has shot their shot against someone that is more than just a bunch of rabble rowsers and you are seeing the limitations of their military might.

What follows is an oversimplification, but bear with me. Which of the following do you prefer: (A) no active US involvement, leading to a nuclear Iran, putting Israel and any nation the mullahs deem an enemy under constant nuclear threat/blackmail (the regime’s objective), or (B) active US involvement to obliterate that program?

I imagine you can surmise my answer.

As to the aspersions it seems you’re casting at Israel’s military - and as only one of us has ever served in the Air Force, I’m trying to tread lightly and respectfully here - Israel has actually done the heavy lifting. They’ve so degraded Iran’s military and its proxies that the Israeli Air Force allegedly is refueling in Iranian air space. What more would you have them do?

 

[81usaf92]

This bothers me. Bibi knew already they had nothing which would touch Fordow (or however you want to spell it). They don't even have a plane which could carry a MOP. 5K is the max any of their planes can carry. The B2 can carry only two, since they weight 30,000 lb. Does this mean that Bibi assumed all along he could drag us into this? If so, then he's started something he knew all along they couldn't finish...

Well Bibi is a fanatic and Trump is a guy who thinks he understands everything no matter how out of his depth he truly is. I hope for this one time… Trump listens to Putin.

 

[Isaiah 63:1]

The State of Iran has not attacked Israel until Israel attacked them . Yes they have supported non state actors and hostile states against Israel. Israel using non state actors supported by Iran as a justification to attack Iran unprovoked is like the US attacking Russia for Vietnam.

You do realize Bluto’s soliloquy in Animal House - the reference to the Germans’ bombing Pearl Harbor - was unintentionally humorous, right?

 

[81usaf92]

As to the aspersions it seems you’re casting at Israel’s military - and as only one of us has ever served in the Air Force, I’m trying to tread lightly and respectfully here - Israel has actually done the heavy lifting. They’ve so degraded Iran’s military and its proxies that the Israeli Air Force allegedly is refueling in Iranian air space. What more would you have them do?

Well I’m probably one of the only one on here to work around a nuclear weapon, nuclear weapon system, and certified critical components too. So believe me when i say… “I have come to my conclusions with the idea of the acquisition of nuclear weapon in mind”.

What follows is an oversimplification, but bear with me. Which of the following do you prefer: (A) no active US involvement, leading to a nuclear Iran, putting Israel and any nation the mullahs deem an enemy under constant nuclear threat/blackmail (the regime’s objective), or (B) active US involvement to obliterate that program?

Israel has nukes too. So in theory they could blackmail everyone (which they have) too.

But if you want an answer to your overall question then here it is. “Protect US interests and stay out the politics of the Middle East unless they directly threaten our interests”. Getting drug into a war because Israel makes a preemptive attack is not in our best interests.

As to the aspersions it seems you’re casting at Israel’s military - and as only one of us has ever served in the Air Force, I’m trying to tread lightly and respectfully here - Israel has actually done the heavy lifting. They’ve so degraded Iran’s military and its proxies that the Israeli Air Force allegedly is refueling in Iranian air space. What more would you have them do?

Well for one thing… they didn’t have the bombs that could destroy the underground nuclear facilities, and knew we did. This wasn’t a “guys I thought we had the capabilities to accomplish our mission goals could yall please help us finish it” kinda thing. This was a deliberate attempt to get us involved in it and stop with diplomatically trying to solve the problems. Don’t believe me… then why is Bibi all of the sudden invited the Pahavias to Tel Aviv, and why has the crown prince suddenly become a staunch supporter of Netanyahu in the past 6 months. Bibi is actively trying to convince us to tool the regime and trying to convince of a viable alternative.

 

[Isaiah 63:1]

…But if you want an answer to your overall question then here it is. “Protect US interests and stay out the politics of the Middle East unless they directly threaten our interests”. Getting drug into a war because Israel makes a preemptive attack is not in our best interests…

well, there’s saying in the military, that I imagine you’re probably familiar with. “If a general gets the objectives, right, a lieutenant can write the strategy.”

You and I disagree on the strategy, therefore we might disagree on the objectives.

I think US interests include staying out of the politics to the Middle East as much as possible. If Iran gets the bomb, that objective will be unattainable, because we’ll be threatened by a middle eastern nuclear power. In other words, I think we have a choice of two different kinds of clouds. A small non-nuclear cloud over Fordow, or a larger, nuclear cloud over, say, Tel Aviv.

To say that Israel is acting preemptively is just plain wrong. It’s the latest in a string of responses to the Iran-backed October 7 2023 massacre. To call Israel’s actions preemptive is to give the moral high ground for the mullahs, and they don’t deserve it…

 

[81usaf92]

I think US interests include staying out of the politics to the Middle East as much as possible. If Iran gets the bomb, that objective will be unattainable, because we’ll be threatened by a middle eastern nuclear power. In other words, I think we have a choice of two different kinds of clouds. A small non-nuclear cloud over Fordow, or a larger, nuclear cloud over, say, Tel Aviv.

Israel has a bomb despite the fact they are not supposed to have a bomb. Yet America turns a blind eye to it. Why not give a bomb to the Saudis and Turks? I guess it goes back “god’s people” being able to defend themselves and only they can attack their neighbors and take their land without any consequences.

To say that Israel is acting preemptively is just plain wrong. It’s the latest in a string of responses to the Iran-backed October 7 2023 massacre. To call Israel’s actions preemptive is to give the moral high ground for the mullahs, and they don’t deserve it…

Okay then why does Moscow and Beijing still exist? Because without their involvement there wouldn’t be a North Korea or communist government in Vietnam.

The conflict is far more complicated than what you are making it out to be, and the Israelis are nowhere near as innocent in it as you choose to believe. Israel needs the US protection from Islamic invasion but they have for far to long abused that protection and created more problems for them and us at the same time. Netanyahu is not a moral man and is a war mongering zealot who is constantly in fear of living in the shadow of his better brother. Anyone who is close friends with Modi and Orban really should be questioned about their motives.

 

[dayhiker]

 

[TIDE-HSV]

I'm a cynic, where Bibi's concerned. I think he was hoping and praying that the Iranians would make good on their promise to hit anyone helping Israel (they've already accused us). Then, when they killed some American soldiers, we'd have no choice but to intervene...

 

[dtgreg]

I think if he does then it ends horribly for us. Iran would be a worse headache in the aftermath of a US intervention than Iraq was. My read is that he thought either Bibi wouldn’t do it, or he was led to believe that Iran would capitulate after a few bombs were dropped on nuclear sites.

But it goes back to my overall view on it in terms of us. If Israel was attacked for no reason by Iran, then send the jets towards Tehran. But If Israel wants to pick a fight with Iran on their own then Israel should finish the fight without us. We should stop supporting everything that Israel wants to do just because we have guilt from the 30’s or some religious people here constantly believe we should “defend god’s people”. Israel does alot of things on their own to provoke the response from the Islamic world too, and it’s way past time that we should start having real discussions about it.

The fundamentalist Israeli regime lost all credibility with me when they said they would assassinate Rabin for DARING to try to make peace with the Palesinians and THEN THEY DID IT! And zero consequences.

Ben Gvir (famous for being the guy threatening the life of Israel's dead President) is now the head of Security for BN. It makes you wonder who is the Ruler and who is the Chump? They deserve each other.

The Palestinians are despised by almost everybody. None of the Arabs want them and just try being openly gay or a liberated woman there. Still, they are human beings. Thank goodness we didn't let LeMay kill tens of millions of the world's population when he was head of SAC. We have to try to deal with our enemies. Even if they are bad people and we fundamentaly disagree with them. Of course, Christians were taught this as a basic tenet by those who saw that an eye-for-an-eye leaves all of us blind or worse. Jesus couldn't stop the idiots in his own country from destroying themselves in a futile uprising against the Romans. I personally have nothing to be smug about. I'm a white man from the South and in my lifetime, folks were going door-to-door in my neighborhood selling pictures of lynched/burned black men. Klan 45 records.

Israel has gone mad. The turning point was the murder of Rabin and the lack of consequences. The right wing in Israel openly allied with Hamas to keep the Palestinians' government split between Hamas and the PLO or whatever their Nom du Jour. You'll notice Hamas attacked a liberal / hippy concert full of children the fundamentalist Jews despise anyway.

I don't know what should be done about Iran. I don't know if Saudi Arabia is all about letting the Jews take the blame for toppling the Iranian Regime and stopping their nuclear threat before the Saudis have to worry about their own safety. I do know one thing: I guarantee Ukraine regrets giving up their Nukes.

There are no grown-ups in the room. We're all in a bus with no driver.

 

[UAH]

The State of Iran has not attacked Israel until Israel attacked them . Yes they have supported non state actors and hostile states against Israel. Israel using non state actors supported by Iran as a justification to attack Iran unprovoked is like the US attacking Russia for Vietnam.

As far as terrorists getting their hands on a nuclear weapon… Again the collapse of the Soviet Union really goes against that theory in a huge way. I just have my doubts a government that used that much of their resources in building one would let one go to a bunch of incompetent extremists.

Doesn't Iran support and arm Hamas and Hezbollah. I am under the impression that Iran fired several hundred missiles at Israel during the fighting following the Hamas attack into Israel. It was reported over the last few days that Putin hosted Hamas leadership in Moscow last year and that of course Iran has shipped hundreds of Shaheen Drones and other weapons to Russia to be used against Ukraine civilians.

I am not a fan of Netanyahu and his conduct in Gaza by any means but do recognize the evil that exist in the Iranian dictatorship.

 

[81usaf92]

Doesn't Iran support and arm Hamas and Hezbollah.

Hezbollah more than Hamas.

You gotta understand what the rationale of the Islamic Republic of Iran is. It isn’t to kill Jews and Americans no matter how much they say it and fund it. It is to maintain control of Iran in a geopolitical climate that is rapidly going against them. Their people are becoming increasingly closer to demanding change and all the IR has to sell is “we are protecting you from the West and the Jewish conquest”. So they have to maintain the chaos or find someone to create it. That leads to strange bedfellows like Sunni extremist groups.

The Ayatollah and his underlings are nowhere as crazy as they put on. They know a war with the United States would result in their destruction and that’s why they have been extremely careful in who they pick to fund because they really don’t want the smoke that they act like they want. There is a reason Osama was in Pakistan and not Iran, Turkey, or Saudi Arabia. Major states do not want the US or Russians knocking at their door.

I am under the impression that Iran fired several hundred missiles at Israel during the fighting following the Hamas attack into Israel.

In 2023 they did not fire on Israel

In 2024 they did it in an immediate and limited retaliation to Israel targeting one of their senior military leaders in Lebanon.

It was reported over the last few days that Putin hosted Hamas leadership in Moscow last year and that of course Iran has shipped hundreds of Shaheen Drones and other weapons to Russia to be used against Ukraine civilians.

Iran’s support with Hamas begins and ends with the idea of normalization of relations between Israel and Saudi Arabia. If they were being completely honest the Ayatollah probably has a bigger issue with Arabs than Jews and Americans. And a lot of the support that Iran pumped into Hamas in 2023 was because the Saudis and Jews were starting major steps in normalizing relations. The biggest beneficiaries from the Hamas attack were the Ayatollah and Netanyahu. Both were on the brink of becoming irrelevant and permanently unpopular before the Hamas attack.

I am not a fan of Netanyahu and his conduct in Gaza by any means but do recognize the evil that exist in the Iranian dictatorship.

I think both are evil religious war mongers. Israel however is the one that we find more agreeable and it’s because of choice and guilt. However our kindness to them has enabled them to become the school bully in region. As for Iran…. I wish we could have them back as an ally in the ME, but it won’t happen under the current regime. However I don’t think we or Israel should be the ones to force the change.

 

[81usaf92]

The fundamentalist Israeli regime lost all credibility with me when they said they would assassinate Rabin for DARING to try to make peace with the Palesinians and THEN THEY DID IT! And zero consequences.

Ben Gvir (famous for being the guy threatening the life of Israel's dead President) is now the head of Security for BN. It makes you wonder who is the Ruler and who is the Chump? They deserve each other.

The Palestinians are despised by almost everybody. None of the Arabs want them and just try being openly gay or a liberated woman there. Still, they are human beings. Thank goodness we didn't let LeMay kill tens of millions of the world's population when he was head of SAC. We have to try to deal with our enemies. Even if they are bad people and we fundamentaly disagree with them. Of course, Christians were taught this as a basic tenet by those who saw that an eye-for-an-eye leaves all of us blind or worse. Jesus couldn't stop the idiots in his own country from destroying themselves in a futile uprising against the Romans. I personally have nothing to be smug about. I'm a white man from the South and in my lifetime, folks were going door-to-door in my neighborhood selling pictures of lynched/burned black men. Klan 45 records.

Israel has gone mad. The turning point was the murder of Rabin and the lack of consequences. The right wing in Israel openly allied with Hamas to keep the Palestinians' government split between Hamas and the PLO or whatever their Nom du Jour. You'll notice Hamas attacked a liberal / hippy concert full of children the fundamentalist Jews despise anyway.

I don't know what should be done about Iran. I don't know if Saudi Arabia is all about letting the Jews take the blame for toppling the Iranian Regime and stopping their nuclear threat before the Saudis have to worry about their own safety. I do know one thing: I guarantee Ukraine regrets giving up their Nukes.

There are no grown-ups in the room. We're all in a bus with no driver.

The Saudis have alot to fear about Iran, and probably fear them getting a nuclear weapon more than the Israelis. The Turks fear the possibility as well. I think both would prefer Iran to go back to a more secular society but both understand the more they try to force them to change the more the Ayatollah funds their enemies. In secret both probably wish that Bibi and the Ayatollah destroy each other and rid the ME of the two biggest headaches in the region.

 

[crimsonaudio]

President Trump opposed a recent Israeli plan to kill Iran's Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, three U.S. officials told CBS News on Sunday.

The Israelis had the opportunity to assassinate Khamenei and Mr. Trump conveyed to Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu that it wasn't a good idea, one U.S. official told CBS News. They said the conversation between Netanyahu and Mr. Trump happened since Israel launched a massive attack on Iran last week.

Mr. Trump's rejection of the proposal was first reported by Reuters.

Two things:
1- I don't understand why not allowing Israel to kill him is the right move, and
2- this shows how much the US holds the puppet strings wrt Israel.

Trump opposed Israeli plan to kill Iran's supreme leader, CBS News sources say

The Israelis had the opportunity to assassinate Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei and President Trump conveyed to Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu that it wasn't a good idea, one U.S. official told CBS News.

www.cbsnews.com

 

[crimsonaudio]

Freddie's Beach Bar is currently reported as having essentially zero traffic, abnormally low for a Sunday evening at 10:35pm ET The Dominos closest to the Pentagon is reported as having above average levels of activity. This indicates a potentially busy night at the Pentagon.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1934440585446007077

 

[81usaf92]

Two things:
1- I don't understand why not allowing Israel to kill him is the right move, and
2- this shows how much the US holds the puppet strings wrt Israel.

Trump opposed Israeli plan to kill Iran's supreme leader, CBS News sources say

The Israelis had the opportunity to assassinate Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei and President Trump conveyed to Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu that it wasn't a good idea, one U.S. official told CBS News.

www.cbsnews.com

For #1: I have my doubts Trump himself told Netanyahu that on his own I would suspect one of the military leaders, Rubio, or someone forced him to understand the ramifications could be for allowing it. Or it could be Putin telling him not to do it. IDK but as impulsive as Trump is I seriously doubt he came to that decision on his own.

As for the reason behind it… there appears to be no viable alternative to the current regime’s rule. Yeah Netanyahu is pushing for a return of the secular shah or a military coup , but it’s kinda a tough sell going from a mad cleric saying “Jews and Americans want to kill Muslims and replace them with secularism and a puppet monarchy” and then kill said cleric and replace an Islamic rule with a puppet secular monarchy. But like Iraq and Libya you probably create a worse situation in a power vacuum. It’s a huge gamble that would almost instantly topple the regime and you really wonder who is next behind Khomeinei… most speculate that it’s his son Mojtaba since Raisi recently died in a helicopter crash. But the problem with that is that Mojtaba hasn’t ever done anything in government or leadership so it’s almost certain that there will be serious contentions over him if he is indeed the chosen one.



As for #2) it’s been that way for awhile.