The Church Thread: Chapter I Verse I

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CrimsonJazz

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3 takeaways from the Charlie Kirk memorial
With Republican leaders publicly embracing his views, the Christian-infused right-wing movement the activist built could become an even bigger part of the national party.
I think for most of us, this is a given. I just don't want to go back to the "moral majority" thing of the 80's. I have some pretty bad experiences from all that. Now with that said, I think this country could benefit from an infusion of Christian principles, particularly when it comes to the whole "love your neighbor" part of the equation. I think it's safe to say we CLEARLY need more of that.
 

CrimsonJazz

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Heck no... Every Methodist, Episcopalian, and Presbyterian knows you gotta get out and to the restaurant before the Baptist hordes are released!
Don’t forget the Catholics. I’ve left tire peels in my wake trying to beat the crowd to Roadhouse.
 

CrimsonJazz

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Nothing like a deep dive of 10 mins...
Any pastor can tell you, putting together a sermon is extremely hard. It has to be understandable by everyone and unfortunately that often means dumbing everything down. Fortunately, for people who need more there are classes and Sunday School.
 

crimsonaudio

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Any pastor can tell you, putting together a sermon is extremely hard. It has to be understandable by everyone and unfortunately that often means dumbing everything down. Fortunately, for people who need more there are classes and Sunday School.
I've been to a lot of churches in my lifetime, and *BY FAR* the best example of real Christianity (by all biblical measures of the fruits of the Spirit) have come from churches where the sermons were 30 mins or longer. The reality is that for a lot of people, that's all the bible they're getting for the week - dumbing it down does nothing but make it easier to fill the pews.

Maybe my experience is unique, but the places where I've seen the Gospel radically changing people weren't fast-food servings...
 

92tide

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I've been to a lot of churches in my lifetime, and *BY FAR* the best example of real Christianity (by all biblical measures of the fruits of the Spirit) have come from churches where the sermons were 30 mins or longer. reality is for a lot of people, that's all the bible they're getting for the week - dumbing it down does nothing but make it easier to fill the pews.

Maybe my experience is unique, but the places where I've seen the Gospel radically changing people weren't fast-food servings...
dude, that is insulting as hell
 

PaulD

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In an effort to tamp down a potential argument...

The Episcopal Church uses a set lectionary (Roman Catholics, Methodists, and other use it too). I'm next preaching on October 19, so I can look up the readings for that day and start formulating what I'm going to say. By the time I preach they will have already heard the lessons read. I usually preach based on the Gospel reading and I can get a chunk of meaning out of it and 8-10 minutes work well. Episcopalians aren't accustomed to long fire and brimstone sermons and my meaning would be lost. Attention spans are shorter these days.

Other faith traditions do it differently and I presume it works for them.
 

Padreruf

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I've been to a lot of churches in my lifetime, and *BY FAR* the best example of real Christianity (by all biblical measures of the fruits of the Spirit) have come from churches where the sermons were 30 mins or longer. The reality is that for a lot of people, that's all the bible they're getting for the week - dumbing it down does nothing but make it easier to fill the pews.

Maybe my experience is unique, but the places where I've seen the Gospel radically changing people weren't fast-food servings...
Talk about dumbing it down...this measures a sermon by the amount of verbiage. The sermon on the Mount is pretty short if I remember correctly. Sometimes all it takes is a well spoken sentence that speaks to the head and heart.

I do not agree with your criteria...getting Bible for the week...much of what long winded pastors tend to say is more their opinion than the gospel. A good short sermon is much more difficult to write than a long one. :)

After 48 years of preaching -- and retired for a few now -- I can say that my longer sermons were often too convoluted to comprehend. Speak a few words, speak to the heart, and give the Holy Spirit some credit for comprehension and ergo, conversion.
 
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crimsonaudio

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Talk about dumbing it down...this measures a sermon by the amount of verbiage. The sermon on the Mount is pretty short if I remember correctly. Sometimes all it takes is a well spoken sentence that speaks to the head and heart.

I do not agree with your criteria...getting Bible for the week...much of what long winded pastors tend to say is more their opinion than the gospel. A good short sermon is much more difficult to write than a long one. :)

After 48 years of preaching -- and retired for a few now -- I can say that my longer sermons were often too convoluted to comprehend. Speak a few words, speak to the heart, and give the Holy Spirit some credit for comprehension and ergo, conversion.
I was speaking of what I observed as correlation, not causation.
 
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CrimsonJazz

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Well... In Muscle Shoals we had to beat the Warehouse Baptists, or we just went home and had a sandwich... Which is mostly what we did anyway. We had a very tiny Catholic presence.
Same here. Most people in this town don’t even realize we even have a Catholic Church. We have a new priest who is a very young guy and he is high-energy. He talks about finding new ways to outreach to the community. I don’t think he realizes just yet how disliked we are around here, but he will figure it out.
 
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Bamabuzzard

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I've been to a lot of churches in my lifetime, and *BY FAR* the best example of real Christianity (by all biblical measures of the fruits of the Spirit) have come from churches where the sermons were 30 mins or longer. The reality is that for a lot of people, that's all the bible they're getting for the week - dumbing it down does nothing but make it easier to fill the pews.

Maybe my experience is unique, but the places where I've seen the Gospel radically changing people weren't fast-food servings...
I don't know too many people who only spend 10 minutes a week reading the Bible that know anything about what the Bible says. But I do know A LOT of people who don't even read the Bible or read the Bible less than 10 minutes per week who think they know what the Bible says, but are grossly wrong. It's hard to know about something that you barely invest any time in.
 
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CrimsonJazz

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I've been to a lot of churches in my lifetime, and *BY FAR* the best example of real Christianity (by all biblical measures of the fruits of the Spirit) have come from churches where the sermons were 30 mins or longer. The reality is that for a lot of people, that's all the bible they're getting for the week - dumbing it down does nothing but make it easier to fill the pews.

Maybe my experience is unique, but the places where I've seen the Gospel radically changing people weren't fast-food servings...
I get that. It seems to me (and correct me if I'm wrong) that Evangelical services combine 3 important things: worship, education and evangelization. For Catholics, Orthodox and (I assume) mainline Protestants, that is not the case. A Catholic mass has one function: worship, that's it. The focal point is receiving the sacrament. Education and evangelization are separated from the mass. That's why there are no alter calls at the end.

However, a good and active parish will have a plethora of education opportunities.....for those that want it. And believe me when I tell you, we NEED more adult education in the Catholic church. We have way too many poorly catechized adults walking around with no idea of how to defend their faith. The recent surge in conversions, however, seems to be a catalyst for more adults starving for substantial education asking for more. I hope that trend continues.
 
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Padreruf

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I was speaking of what I observed as correlation, not causation.
IMHO, you are correlating Bible Study and a sermon. If all the "Bible Study" a person has is a Sunday sermon then they will be hard pressed to grow. OTOH, if I rely on one person to tell me what to think, then I''m in trouble...no matter who that person is.
 

Bamabuzzard

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I get that. It seems to me (and correct me if I'm wrong) that Evangelical services combine 3 important things: worship, education and evangelization. For Catholics, Orthodox and (I assume) mainline Protestants, that is not the case. A Catholic mass has one function: worship, that's it. The focal point is receiving the sacrament. Education and evangelization are separated from the mass. That's why there are no alter calls at the end.

However, a good and active parish will have a plethora of education opportunities.....for those that want it. And believe me when I tell you, we NEED more adult education in the Catholic church. We have way too many poorly catechized adults walking around with no idea of how to defend their faith. The recent surge in conversions, however, seems to be a catalyst for more adults starving for substantial education asking for more. I hope that trend continues.
This is just my personal opinion, but I think the evangelicals try to use the worship service for too many things, and what you ultimately end up with is not very much substance in anything. We try to reach the unbeliever, we try to worship God and we try to educate the believer, all in one 1 hr to 1 hr 1/2 service.

"Jack of all trades but master of none"
 
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