The Film Guy_The Alabama Offense

[CrimsonNagus]

Let me put it another way:
2014 Easterh Michigan 100 in rushing
2015 Eastern Michigan 80 in rushing
2016 Eastern Michigan 85 in rushing
2017 Fresno St. 77 in rushing
2018 Fresno St. 87 in rushing
2019 Indiana 106 in rushing
2020 Fresno St. 108 in rushing
2021 Fresno St. 91 in rushing
2022 Washington 69 in rushing
2023 Washington 106 in rushing
2024 Alabama 47 in rushing
2025 Alabama 103 in rushing

That's DeBoer's entire FBS career, head coach and offensive coordinator. The only year he had an above average rushing offense was mostly attributable to a running quarterback. This is not a small sample size so this is what we should expect. As to the importance, only one team in the past 20 years has won a championship with an offense outside the top 60 in rushing (Clemson in 2016 ranked 70th).

This is why I have never been sold on DeBoer being the right man for the job, and after the FSU game, I'm 100% sure he is not the right man. I don't care what the past 2 weeks against bad teams have looked like. My mind is made up on DeBoer, and I think this weekend will look more like the FSU game than the past 2 weeks. (I hope I have some crow to eat late Saturday night.)

 

[Cruloc]

If this is the case then it is a mindset/culture problem. Look at Brent Key's team Ga Tech. He's got them in the Dan Campbell "We'll bite you knee cap off" mentality. Key has his team in a tough, "we'll kick your butt" mentality. He's also 7-1 against ranked teams. If this doesn't work out with Deboer, Brent Key is the first person I'm calling. I think he's ready for a big time coaching gig.

I miss Bama players having that attitude. I don't understand how you can't have that kind of attitude when you're playing any sport. Your job is to beat the guy that's going against you, and then beat him again, and again......you have to have an attitude for that.

I remember how I was in high school.....one personality off the field, but when I stepped on the mound to pitch, that was my mound, my ball field, you were my enemy when you came to the plate.....I wanted to humiliate you and all your teammates. How can any one player step on a field or even a court and not have that killer mentality, it just doesn't compute with me.

 

[Cruloc]

This is why I have never been sold on DeBoer being the right man for the job, and after the FSU game, I'm 100% sure he is not the right man. I don't care what the past 2 weeks against bad teams have looked like. My mind is made up on DeBoer, and I think this weekend will look more like the FSU game than the past 2 weeks. (I hope I have some crow to eat late Saturday night.)

Yes, this is where I'm at with DeBoer. I think his mentality is too soft for the SEC. That's why I wanted Dan Lanning....and now I'd add Brent Key to that.

Teams take on the personality of their head coach. You've got to have a killer attitude out there or the other guy is going to make you look like a fool.

 

[Bamabuzzard]

I keep talking to friends who think Bama's passing will make up for what they see as a running game that just "hasn't gotten going yet." My own thoughts are that the running issue is much deeper and that it likely won't "get going" due to issues in personnel and coaching. Wisconsin couldn't but most of the SEC can keep our running game completely in check just using the down linemen. That leaves everyone else free to drop into various levels of coverage. I expect to see lots of third and long where then we get the D shedding blocks and into the backfield negating Ty's ability to let plays develop.

I am afraid we are going to see on Saturday what the rest of our SEC opponents already know. WIthout a threat of any real running ability, Bama's O can be kept in first gear if not neutral. Georgia has the toolkit to make it happen--but so do a bunch of the ranked teams left to play.

Actually, Wisconsin did. Most of the time they stuffed out run they were in a four down line set and seven on the back end. We just assumed they were crowding the box, they weren't. They were stopping our run with only four and five guys.

 

[Cruloc]

I literally agree with everything you've posted. But let me play some devil's advocate. I've listened to several former player's podcast the last few weeks and there are some who have witnessed a change in DeBoer's style of coaching the players. He is more "in their face" and "hard" compared to earlier in the year and all of last year. There is a thought coming out of the program that he is starting to figure out that he cannot coach SEC players (specifically this program) with anything other than an iron fist.
If this is true I wonder what other revelations he is starting to have or will have about coaching in the SEC? He's won every where's he's gone and he's apparently adapted enough at each place to win at a high level. Is he starting to do the same here? I hope that is the case, but if not, like I said above. The first person I'm calling is Brent Key's agent and telling him to "come home".

The coaches that are usually above the rest are those that adapt.....like Saban did so many times. Hopefully DeBoer figuring things out like you've mentioned...is true and we start seeing it soon.

 

[editder]

That dude really likes to hear himself talk.
"Brevity," it would seem, is not in his lexicon.

I was thinking the same thing. He carries on a lot of gibberish instead of just getting to the point.

 

[squib]

Actually, Wisconsin did. Most of the time they stuffed out run they were in a four down line set and seven on the back end. We just assumed they were crowding the box, they weren't. They were stopping our run with only four and five guys.

Yes, they just didn't have the horses to do that and simultaneously disrupt the passing game. But point taken.

 

[Bamabuzzard]

I was thinking the same thing. He carries on a lot of gibberish instead of just getting to the point.

Welcome to the entertainment industry. Guys that do this type of stuff have to have an element of entertainment to their content or it would be nothing more than a very short video that wouldn't produce the monetary results for them to keep doing it. So, you have to take the good with the bad.

 

[tidefan39817]

I keep hearing the announcers talk about the left tackle being a top draft pick, I don't see it. I have never played organized football but I could get by him and get the QB. With our O-line's play so far this year, I'm afraid this game is going to be just like the Florida State game. I hope I'm wrong and they get it together.

I can't argue with this. Proctor is slow off the snap, he struggles with moving his feet, and if he gets beat by a quicker defensive end he tends to start to over correct his feet. if he gets beat to the outside watch him on the next play, he takes a GIANT step to the outside before making contact with the DE. This tends to leave him slightly off balance and easy to beat on an inside move. Honestly, there is no reason for a lineman in todays game to be playing at 360+ pounds. especially left tackle. for a comparison Trent Williams and Laremy Tunsill , two of the better left tackles in the NFL, are both around 320 lbs.

Don't even get me started on watching him try to get out on a screen play.

 

[tidefan39817]

Over weight, slow, and weak will get you beat. I have been underwhelmed with Proctor since he was a freshman. As a group they remind me of the "Pancake Posse" .

OH good grief...thanks for the triggering comment.

 

[KrAzY3]

I literally agree with everything you've posted. But let me play some devil's advocate. I've listened to several former player's podcast the last few weeks and there are some who have witnessed a change in DeBoer's style of coaching the players. He is more "in their face" and "hard" compared to earlier in the year and all of last year. There is a thought coming out of the program that he is starting to figure out that he cannot coach SEC players (specifically this program) with anything other than an iron fist.

My response was going to be along the lines of the issue I have with this is it should have been done leading up to the Michigan game. They had the time, they knew there were serious problems after the Oklahoma game, they also knew they if they just ran the ball down Michigan's throat they would win (because Michigan was playing with backups).

Yet, we saw the same team we saw against Oklahoma basically, only wearing the wrong shoes as well this time. Then we had the FSU game, again after the entire off-season, plenty of time to fix stuff.

I read the quote about giving the players all those days off, and I went from scared to terrified. The problem to me is even if it does work somehow for this game, it's not how you win consistently. You can't loaf on the bye weeks, loaf in the offseason, take it easy leading up to a bowl game, and then win consistently. Your well rested team might pull off a big win here or there, but there's no substitute for discipline and hard work. This isn't the Big 12, this isn't the Pac-12 either, this is the SEC and it sounds like he still might not get it.

 

[arthurdawg]

2014 Easterh Michigan 100 in rushing
2015 Eastern Michigan 80 in rushing
2016 Eastern Michigan 85 in rushing
2017 Fresno St. 77 in rushing
2018 Fresno St. 87 in rushing
2019 Indiana 106 in rushing
2020 Fresno St. 108 in rushing
2021 Fresno St. 91 in rushing
2022 Washington 69 in rushing
2023 Washington 106 in rushing
2024 Alabama 47 in rushing
2025 Alabama 103 in rushing

Makes sense... I have not felt that we've really emphasized the running game since 2021 and it has been an afterthought under DeBoer.

 

[JDCrimson]

These NW coaches had to find other ways to win because they didnt have elite OL/DL/RBs to field to have a strong reliance on the running game. If they never had the tools they most likely dont know how to use the tools.

All of this is residual coaching preference.

But I will say last year I saw more exotic OL techniques than I have seen in a long time. Alot of pulling and getting OL out in space. But we dont have the kind of OL to do as much that as we would like.

Whether we want to admit it, we are in a rebuild rather reload of the roster.

 

[graydogg85]

Alabama hasn't had a thousand yard rusher since 2021, they've gotten away from a power running game and it's not necessarily a switch you can flip on when you want. It takes dedication and focus to address these issues. The way to get better is practice/repetition. However, in the DeBoer offense the running backs only get the ball about 35% of the time.

When the offensive line isn't doing a good job at run blocking or opening holes as you noted, I would hope for "we're going to practice this until you get better". To fix the problem it takes prioritizing it. I also do not view it merely as a personnel issue, Justice Haynes is just an example, he averaged 5.7 last year but was used sparingly.

I'm not sure how a team that doesn't emphasize the running game can dramatically improve in run blocking. A good running game requires a commitment and without that I see no way out. Good running backs will continue to transfer out, and the line likely continues to struggle at run blocking because of the lack of emphasis.

Let me put it another way:
2014 Easterh Michigan 100 in rushing
2015 Eastern Michigan 80 in rushing
2016 Eastern Michigan 85 in rushing
2017 Fresno St. 77 in rushing
2018 Fresno St. 87 in rushing
2019 Indiana 106 in rushing
2020 Fresno St. 108 in rushing
2021 Fresno St. 91 in rushing
2022 Washington 69 in rushing
2023 Washington 106 in rushing
2024 Alabama 47 in rushing
2025 Alabama 103 in rushing

That's DeBoer's entire FBS career, head coach and offensive coordinator. The only year he had an above average rushing offense was mostly attributable to a running quarterback. This is not a small sample size so this is what we should expect. As to the importance, only one team in the past 20 years has won a championship with an offense outside the top 60 in rushing (Clemson in 2016 ranked 70th).

You’re not wrong - but let me also play a bit of devil’s advocate here: let’s take a look at 2019 LSU. They averaged 401 passing ypg and 167 rushing ypg. Insane overall numbers, but disproportionately pass-heavy. 70% of their offensive production was through the air.

Through 3 games this season, we are averaging 336 passing ypg and 124 rushing ypg. A slightly higher 73% of our production coming from passing yardage.

I don’t disagree that there are times where an inability to run the ball is quite detrimental and I think we need to improve at least incrementally - but I also think this is something that gets overblown. You can absolutely win titles with an average (to even below average) rushing game if the passing offense is elite. It’s a dangerous way to live at times, but it’s become more commonplace. In the NFL, if you run for much more than 125 yards you’ve had a banner day. The top rushing offense in the NFL as of this week is Buffalo at 163 ypg. The Eagles, who many would peg as the league’s best team, average 122 ypg on the ground. More and more college teams have gone pass-heavier the last few years to mimic what you see in the pros.

I agree with others that some of this is personnel - the absolutely massive guys we’ve got on the line were largely Saban recruits. The CKD offense likes to utilize quicker guys that do a lot of pulling and getting out in space and I actually think we will run more effectively when we have that kind of personnel. That said, CKD (and especially Grubb) are pass-heavy coaches who pull a lot of what they do from the Leach-Mumme Air Raid system and we knew that when we hired them. I don’t look for them to change the blocking schemes dramatically this season to fit the personnel in the run game, right or wrong. They are pretty much always going to throw the ball at a 60%-65% clip, especially with Grubb calling the plays. Last season was a real outlier and was a case of CKD and Sheridan trying to cater to what the personnel could reasonably do. This season, our best bet is continued elite play from Ty and the receivers, and significant improvement in run fits on defense. Do those two things and this is still a championship caliber team, whether we agree with the approach or not. If the bottom falls out, then we can second guess whether or not this style of coaching is the right approach but it’s won titles in this league before. And for those clamoring for Brent Key - he seems like a great coach but let’s not forget he’s coming off back-to-back 7-6 seasons and last year he got beaten badly by a below average Virginia Tech team. No one would have been excited about hiring a guy like that versus someone with CKD’s resume. He might yet prove to be a dude but this is still recency bias conjecture.

I still say give this staff time to prove what they’ve got, and let’s discuss things if it just ain’t working. Still too soon to know IMO, and I’m not sure we will completely know against UGA (unless we get spatchcocked, heaven forbid). The ensuing weeks will tell us more.

 

[dtgreg]

I literally agree with everything you've posted. But let me play some devil's advocate. I've listened to several former player's podcast the last few weeks and there are some who have witnessed a change in DeBoer's style of coaching the players. He is more "in their face" and "hard" compared to earlier in the year and all of last year. There is a thought coming out of the program that he is starting to figure out that he cannot coach SEC players (specifically this program) with anything other than an iron fist.
If this is true I wonder what other revelations he is starting to have or will have about coaching in the SEC? He's won every where's he's gone and he's apparently adapted enough at each place to win at a high level. Is he starting to do the same here? I hope that is the case, but if not, like I said above. The first person I'm calling is Brent Key's agent and telling him to "come home".

It's hard to think it's smart to change when you have won everywhere you've been. You get to a program where you have better players than you've ever had, and perhaps better than your opponents. You think you can win with schemes because you always have. "Boy, if I combine my awesome schemes with the best players, I'll be a God!".

But now, you're up against the best teams with the best coaches and you're not being overlooked. You can't surprise anyone. You can fool maybe a team or two on your schedule but eventually, they'll figure you out and then it becomes blocking and tackling and toughness. I remember having Homer Smith under Curry. We could win a lot of games but we couldn't beat Pat Dye. He knew what Stallings knew. You start to realize what coach Stallings said is right.

If you weren't an assistant at an SEC school or maybe Ohio State or Michigan I don't think you can quite grasp what the reality of SEC play is like. Being the coach at Alabama is maybe the toughest job out there but man, if you figure it out, you can win like crazy.

 

[gtgilbert]

Actually, Wisconsin did. Most of the time they stuffed out run they were in a four down line set and seven on the back end. We just assumed they were crowding the box, they weren't. They were stopping our run with only four and five guys.

I need to go back and watch this one a bit more to see if there are trends, but the way a lot of teams have adapted their run support on defense, I've started re-thinking the whole 'in the box' view of run D. i.e. Earl Little ATE OUR LUNCH in run support in the FSU game, but he was very, very rarely 'in the box'. OSU uses Downs the same way. In the example the film guy uses from wiscy about stuffing the run, he mentions 5 guys back beyond the LOS - a.k.a out of the box, but the guy who made the tackle was one of those 5 guys who came downhill hard and fast.

 

[teamplayer]

I can't argue with this. Proctor is slow off the snap, he struggles with moving his feet, and if he gets beat by a quicker defensive end he tends to start to over correct his feet. if he gets beat to the outside watch him on the next play, he takes a GIANT step to the outside before making contact with the DE. This tends to leave him slightly off balance and easy to beat on an inside move. Honestly, there is no reason for a lineman in todays game to be playing at 360+ pounds. especially left tackle. for a comparison Trent Williams and Laremy Tunsill , two of the better left tackles in the NFL, are both around 320 lbs.

Don't even get me started on watching him try to get out on a screen play.

It's absolutely hilarious that people project him as a first round pick. That just shows how the NFL drafts potential instead of actual results.

 

[KrAzY3]

You’re not wrong - but let me also play a bit of devil’s advocate here: let’s take a look at 2019 LSU. They averaged 401 passing ypg and 167 rushing ypg. Insane overall numbers, but disproportionately pass-heavy. 70% of their offensive production was through the air.

Through 3 games this season, we are averaging 336 passing ypg and 124 rushing ypg. A slightly higher 73% of our production coming from passing yardage.

I am trying to be a bit patient and just see how things play out with the Georgia game before I comment further, but I did want to elaborate on this particular part of it.

I did to highlight what was an apparent cutoff point in terms of efficacy running the ball. LSU for instance was still a top 60 run team, Alabama this year is outside the top 100. Having said that yes, LSU was an outlier, one of two championship teams within that time frame that were outside the top 50 but inside the top 60. For everyone else being (comfortably) within the top 50 was the recipe for success.

Let's be clear though, there's no precedent that I could find to being outside the top 70 and winning a national championship. DeBoer has only actually been inside that range twice in 12 years. We'll see though, but if it certainly isn't a proven recipe for success.

To elaborate a big further, the best seasons he had were with a 5th and 6th year first round draft pick at quarterback (LSU also of course had a first round draft pick at QB, as did Clemson when they won with the 70th ranked rushing team). If you are going to rely heavily on the pass, you obviously need a reliable QB. Only problem is QBs are not always reliable (see last year, where by the way Alabama handed off at about the same rate as this year). In his three full FBS seasons without Penix, he's gone 21-10.

 

[Bamabuzzard]

I am trying to be a bit patient and just see how things play out with the Georgia game before I comment further, but I did want to elaborate on this particular part of it.

I did to highlight what was an apparent cutoff point in terms of efficacy running the ball. LSU for instance was still a top 60 run team, Alabama this year is outside the top 100. Having said that yes, LSU was an outlier, one of two championship teams within that time frame that were outside the top 50 but inside the top 60. For everyone else being (comfortably) within the top 50 was the recipe for success.

Let's be clear though, there's no precedent that I could find to being outside the top 70 and winning a national championship. DeBoer has only actually been inside that range twice in 12 years. We'll see though, but if it certainly isn't a proven recipe for success.

To elaborate a big further, the best seasons he had were with a 5th and 6th year first round draft pick at quarterback (LSU also of course had a first round draft pick at QB, as did Clemson when they won with the 70th ranked rushing team). If you are going to rely heavily on the pass, you obviously need a reliable QB. Only problem is QBs are not always reliable (see last year, where by the way Alabama handed off at about the same rate as this year). In his three full FBS seasons without Penix, he's gone 21-10.

I think there's a lot of on the job learning going on right now with CKD and the staff. I think depending on how this year plays out, and if he's still the coach next season, we'll see some philosophical changes to his offense. I don't think it will be overhaul changes, but enough to where we'll notice.

He's already made changes to how he's coaching the players and I think he's realizing there will have to be more changes if he wants to ultimately stay the coach at Alabama.

 

[KrAzY3]

I think there's a lot of on the job learning going on right now with CKD and the staff. I think depending on how this year plays out, and if he's still the coach next season, we'll see some philosophical changes to his offense. I don't think it will be overhaul changes, but enough to where we'll notice.

He's already made changes to how he's coaching the players and I think he's realizing there will have to be more changes if he wants to ultimately stay the coach at Alabama.

That got me thinking about Grubb and how Saban would have wanted to use him. Obviously Grubb is a pass first guy, but Saban tended to try to adapt the coordinators to his offense and I'm starting to think may be that sort of hybridization is what is warranted. It's also worth noting that while Grubb tends to show the same tendencies as DeBoer there's some variance. For instance in 2019 Grubb was the OC at Fresno St. before DeBoer was the coach and they were ranked 69th and averaged 4.9 per rush (highest I've seen from Grubb or DeBoer). The following year (with DeBoer as head coach), with the same lead rusher that dropped to 108 and 3.4.

It could be worse though, I didn't realize Dabo's run game was quite as erratic as it can be. For instance this year it's ranked 113th and I'd say that was unprecidented but it was 91 in 2014 before his run of high success. It started out as 100th in 2008 (4-3), 40th in 2009 (9-5) and 79th in 2010 (6-7). So he had to kind of figure the run game out, which to his credit he did for a while and and now he's reverted.