Charlie Kirk Part III

[Its On A Slab]

People really vilified Charlie and thought he should be dead, but he never killed anyone, he just had some extreme followers who liked what he said, he wasn't even at the house when Tate was murdered so I don't know why people are so up in arms.

 

[Its On A Slab]

What I found really scary is the age breakdown. between 40% (those calling themselves conservative) to 49% (liberal) agreed with the statement "Violence is often necessary to create social change."
Where the heck did these kids learn that?
How can it Gen. Z young people never learned about freedom of speech?

I think Gen Z is getting is just a side effect of what has happened to us as a society as the Boomer generation has aged and started dying off.

The Boomers came into the world just after or a decade or so after the end of WW2, where there was shared sacrifice, Liberty Bonds, guys got drafted but many just enlisted because they thought it was the right thing to do. I really believe that contributed to the collegiality in the US House and Senate and Oval Office after the war. McGovern was as liberal as you can get, but he was also a veteran, flew bombers over Europe. Republicans and Democrats were a lot closer to each other in their viewpoints, unlike today.

Fast forward to Vietnam, and every kid was looking to get a national guard appt if drafted, or a student deferment(my two brothers went thru the lottery). Nobody wanted to get drafted to fight an unpopular war.

Then the all-volunteer military came into being. If you signed up, it was your own volition. And that also meant you got sent wars which everyone else had no skin in the game. And even among that group were cheerleaders for those wars, when they themselves had no intention of ever taking up arms and fighting.

Gen Z comes along. Social media, smart phones, getting often incorrect and/or damaging disinformation from those sources. Alienation.

And the rise of selfishness in the body politic. I've got mine so screw you.

So it does stand to reason that the generation has this idea of violence being necessary. In the same way that green recruits head off to the battlefield, clueless of what it all means until the first grenade explodes.

 

[92tide]

I think Gen Z is getting is just a side effect of what has happened to us as a society as the Boomer generation has aged and started dying off.

The Boomers came into the world just after or a decade or so after the end of WW2, where there was shared sacrifice, Liberty Bonds, guys got drafted but it was an honor to enlist in the fight. I really believe that contributed to the collegiality in the US House and Senate and Oval Office after the war. McGovern was as liberal as you can get, but he was also a veteran, flew bombers over Europe.

Fast forward to Vietnam, and every kid was looking to get a national guard appt if drafted, or a student deferment(my two brothers went thru the lottery). Nobody wanted to get drafted to fight an unpopular war.

Then the all-volunteer military came into being. If you signed up, it was your own volition. And that also meant you got sent wars which everyone else had no skin in the game. And even among that group were cheerleaders for those wars, when they themselves had no intention of ever taking up arms and fighting.

Gen Z comes along. Social media, smart phones, getting often incorrect and/or damaging disinformation from those sources. Alienation.

And the rise of selfishness in the body politic. I've got mine so screw you.

So it does stand to reason that the generation has this idea of violence being necessary. In the same way that green recruits head off to the battlefield, clueless of what it all means until the first grenade explodes.

“kids these days” has been an easy “explanation” about as long as there have been kids

 

[Its On A Slab]

“kids these days” has been an easy “explanation” about as long as there have been kids

Except, when we were the "kids these days", we weren't shooting up schools. Heck, we had guys drive pickups to school with long rifles on the rack behind the seat.

 

[92tide]

Except, when we were the "kids these days", we weren't shooting up schools. Heck, we had guys drive pickups to school with long rifles on the rack behind the seat.

it started going downhill when they cancelled jarts

 

[Its On A Slab]

it started going downhill when they cancelled jarts

It started going downhill when Dan Blocker died. Bonanza was never the same after Hoss disappeared.

 

[Tidewater]

I think Gen Z is getting is just a side effect of what has happened to us as a society as the Boomer generation has aged and started dying off.

The Boomers came into the world just after or a decade or so after the end of WW2, where there was shared sacrifice, Liberty Bonds, guys got drafted but many just enlisted because they thought it was the right thing to do. I really believe that contributed to the collegiality in the US House and Senate and Oval Office after the war. McGovern was as liberal as you can get, but he was also a veteran, flew bombers over Europe. Republicans and Democrats were a lot closer to each other in their viewpoints, unlike today.

Fast forward to Vietnam, and every kid was looking to get a national guard appt if drafted, or a student deferment(my two brothers went thru the lottery). Nobody wanted to get drafted to fight an unpopular war.

Then the all-volunteer military came into being. If you signed up, it was your own volition. And that also meant you got sent wars which everyone else had no skin in the game. And even among that group were cheerleaders for those wars, when they themselves had no intention of ever taking up arms and fighting.

Gen Z comes along. Social media, smart phones, getting often incorrect and/or damaging disinformation from those sources. Alienation.

And the rise of selfishness in the body politic. I've got mine so screw you.

So it does stand to reason that the generation has this idea of violence being necessary. In the same way that green recruits head off to the battlefield, clueless of what it all means until the first grenade explodes.

Sound analysis. We are definitely a different country from 1945.
Still between 40 & 49% (regardless of political orientation) believing violence is often needed is pretty scary for the future.


Yesterday evening, an idea occurred to me. I bet St. Petersburg/Moscow and Beijing are loving this.

 

[Tidewater]

“kids these days” has been an easy “explanation” about as long as there have been kids

Yeah. I imagine men my age in Athens 2500 years ago, grumbling about "Kids these days!"

 

[CrimsonJazz]

Yesterday evening, an idea occurred to me. I bet St. Petersburg/Moscow and Beijing are loving this.

T-Dub, I've gotta ask: what are your thoughts on our enemies being the architects of this division? Nothing about this feels natural to me. Can a psy-op really be this successful today? I would think that our society is a bit too cynical for it to be this effective, but I have been guilty of overestimating us before.

 

[Its On A Slab]

T-Dub, I've gotta ask: what are your thoughts on our enemies being the architects of this division? Nothing about this feels natural to me. Can a psy-op really be this successful today? I would think that our society is a bit too cynical for it to be this effective, but I have been guilty of overestimating us before.

I think our enemies know that we have a lot of dumb people in our midst who have rejected any news or information unless it comes from social media, podcasts and propaganda sources. It's very easy to plant seeds via bots and useful idiots.

 

[CrimsonJazz]

I think our enemies know that we have a lot of dumb people in our midst who have rejected any news or information unless it comes from social media, podcasts and propaganda sources. It's very easy to plant seeds via bots and useful idiots.

I agree. Again, I am reminded of Steven King's novel, Needful Things. The antagonist of this tome performed all of his mischief in the shadows as he set the townsfolk against one another without anyone realizing what was happening until the entire town went up in flames, violence and death.

 

[Its On A Slab]

I agree. Again, I am reminded of Steven King's novel, Needful Things. The antagonist of this tome performed all of his mischief in the shadows as he set the townsfolk against one another without anyone realizing what was happening until the entire town went up in flames, violence and death.

The unfortunate reality of living in a free society is that autocratic enemies will try to use the openness against the free society. The Soviet Union had infiltrated the peace movement during Nam, and infiltrated the civil rights movement in the 60s.

 

[92tide]

I think our enemies know that we have a lot of dumb people in our midst who have rejected any news or information unless it comes from social media, podcasts and propaganda sources. It's very easy to plant seeds via bots and useful idiots.

and those things get repeated ad nauseam as gospel truth

 

[92tide]

The unfortunate reality of living in a free society is that autocratic enemies will try to use the openness against the free society. The Soviet Union had infiltrated the peace movement during Nam, and infiltrated the civil rights movement in the 60s.

and their remnants have infiltrated the maga and bro movements

 

[Tidewater]

T-Dub, I've gotta ask: what are your thoughts on our enemies being the architects of this division? Nothing about this feels natural to me. Can a psy-op really be this successful today? I would think that our society is a bit too cynical for it to be this effective, but I have been guilty of overestimating us before.

Here are my thoughts.
I think Beijing and St. Petersburg/Moscow are stoking things using existing systems.
In 2016, Russian fake Facebook accounts (that did not declare themselves to be Russian) created a group called "Texans for Gun Rights" and other Russian accounts created a Facebook group called "Black Matters US." Then they decided to have rallies at the same place in Dallas at the same time.
Clearly they were hoping someone would say something stupid, and, in the ensuing scuffle, someone would use a gun, and that could spark a nation-wide round (think Tulsa, but nation-wide). Very cheap op, possibly very costly for the US. In the end, the city put the kabash to the whole thing.

The Russians did not care at all about either gun rights in the US or in black equality, They just hoped getting these two together would produce some mayhem.

Now, think about nine years later, think they might be doing something similar but on a grander scale? They can access TikTok, Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, Bluesky, etc. etc. All they have to do is get Trump supporters to egg Trump on (which does not take much), and egg on the opponents with cries of "fascism" (which is not an implausible argument). Add a number of folks with mental illness or insufficiently rational/skeptical, and access to firearms, and you have Charlie Kirk getting shot on live TV, half the nation mourning, the other half muttering to themselves, "good riddance." A very toxic and flammable mix. All it needs is a spark.

 

[UAH]

Here are my thoughts.
I think Beijing and St. Petersburg/Moscow are stoking things using existing systems.
In 2016, Russian fake Facebook accounts (that did not declare themselves to be Russian) created a group called "Texans for Gun Rights" and other Russian accounts created a Facebook group called "Black Matters US." Then they decided to have rallies at the same place in Dallas at the same time.
Clearly they were hoping someone would say something stupid, and, in the ensuing scuffle, someone would use a gun, and that could spark a nation-wide round (think Tulsa, but nation-wide). Very cheap op, possibly very costly for the US. In the end, the city put the kabash to the whole thing.

The Russians did not care at all about either gun rights in the US or in black equality, They just hoped getting these two together would produce some mayhem.

Now, think about nine years later, think they might be doing something similar but on a grander scale? They can access TikTok, Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, Bluesky, etc. etc. All they have to do is get Trump supporters to egg Trump on (which does not take much), and egg on the opponents with cries of "fascism" (which is not an implausible argument). Add a number of folks with mental illness or insufficiently rational/skeptical, and access to firearms, and you have Charlie Kirk getting shot on live TV, half the nation mourning, the other half muttering to themselves, "good riddance." A very toxic and flammable mix. All it needs is a spark.

Controversial but add to that group Israel who benefits from a right wing government in the US and spends our own money to assure that their cause is supported regardless of their actions.

 

[Tidewater]

Controversial but add to that group Israel who benefits from a right wing government in the US and spends our own money to assure that their cause is supported regardless of their actions.

Pat Buchanan called Capitol Hill "Israeli Occupied Territory" and was excoriated for his anti-Semitism.

 

[CrimsonJazz]

Controversial but add to that group Israel who benefits from a right wing government in the US and spends our own money to assure that their cause is supported regardless of their actions.

Okay, Israel has its fingers in a lot of American pies, that's true, but how do they benefit from a divided U.S. that's seemingly on the brink of civil war?

 

[UAH]

Okay, Israel has its fingers in a lot of American pies, that's true, but how do they benefit from a divided U.S. that's seemingly on the brink of civil war?

There is no denying that there is a huge Israili lobby that supports people like Charlie Kirk and other right wing personalities. Netanyahu benefits politically with right wing support in the US.

 

[CrimsonJazz]

There is no denying that there is a huge Israili lobby that supports people like Charlie Kirk and other right wing personalities. Netanyahu benefits politically with right wing support in the US.

I wouldn't go that far. Israel has more supporters among Dems than non-supporters. I mean, yeah the far left is pretty nuts, but establishment Dems are no more or less supportive than establishment Reps. Still doesn't answer my question though. Our enemies benefit from a weakened U.S., but I'm failing to see how that helps Israel.