Off Week Discussion/OL/Running Game/Play Calling

[cdub55]

We normally don't run wide out of that set you've got pictured. When we go to the outside we have WR's bunched closer to the LOS to help chip the end and then get to the middle LB while the center pulls. We also have a TE on the end as well. The above offensive and defensive alignment would be good to run between the tackles but our OL doesn't get enough of a push to do that either. So my guess is in the above picture, we're passing the ball. But if we could get a decent push that defensive alignment would be good to run against because they only have five in the box against our five OL'men.

Here's the formation we normally run wide out of. I've tried to use the cursor to show where the players go after the snap. It's not a great job but it'll do.

View attachment 53999

And this is the hole it produces:

View attachment 54000

For reference, this particular play was a draw (run) I posted.

I agree we usually run "wide" out of bunch formations. The particular concept we use is the pin and pull concept where we basically try to block down and get movement on the entire DL while pulling a guard or center to either kick out or log the end man on the LOS or wrap to the overhang. It is an old school buck sweep type run that gives the RB a two way go depending on if the defense keeps outside leverage and tries to box it in or gives up their outside shoulder and loses contain (where we would bounce it outside).

After going back and watching some film today the answer is pretty simple, we aren't very good at run blocking. Watch the first play of the Tennessee game (see below) and our LG gets literally drove back 6 yards into the backfield and tackles Jam Miller.

 

[arthurdawg]

Dewberry is 330 lbs and seems to get no push.

? just not strong

? just not good

 

[teamplayer]

Looking at several of those long passes on 3rd & 4th and short, there were actually underneath routes and they were open, Ty just chose to go deep. In particular, the pass that almost got picked in the EZ was either predetermined or a very bad read. The TE was open on a release across the middle and had 10-15yds easy.

I wondered a few times if we were trying to break up our tendencies and take some deep shots here and there. It seemed like some self-scouting that almost backfired a bit.

 

[92tide]

I wondered a few times if we were trying to break up our tendencies and take some deep shots here and there. It seemed like some self-scouting that almost backfired a bit.

nearly every one of them were wide freaking open, but ty overthrew.

i hope he can start hitting some of those

 

[Tideflyer]

Didn't know where to put this post, but since it's the off week, maybe just a new discussion of several things.

First off, we should be excited we are 7-1 going into the home stretch. Who would have thought that after week one? Now we have an off week to get rested and clean some things up. Great job by all: coaches and players!

I think Ty finally had an off game and we should have expected it. I said at the beginning of the season he might have a "slump" at some point due to his limited starting experience. I hope it was limited to this game. He missed at least 3 GB tagetted passes that with better acccuracy would have been 3 possible TD plays. He was just slightly off, but it may have been he was hurried because of the pass rush of the Cocks. I think TS will probably be much better against LSU.

Now, to the run game and our OL issues. I've reached the conclusion we've got to "dance with who brought us." I don't know if this OL can ever get too much better at run blocking. And, if I have one complaint about RG's play calling, it is that he puts us in some difficult spots in tight games just "trying" to run when it seems like we aren't going to be able. This gets us in alot of 2nd and long and 3rd and long and behind the chains. I think there were 3 straight drives against USCe in the second half where we tried to run on first down and got behind the chains. In a one score game like this game seemed to be the whole time, IMO, we need to forget the run game (especially the inside run game) and just do what we do best, which is letting Ty work with our WRs and running backs who are good receivers. Sprinkle in the occasional run on 2nd and short but let Ty work!!!

This might not be a popular opinion, but I don't think the run game problems are all on the OL. I think Jam is just slow to hit the hole (maybe because of injury still?) but that's what it looks like. D. Hill does a better job IMO.
Deb
What else y'all got?

At this point, it looks as though the best we can hope for from the OTs is that they be able to at least force edge rushers wide enough for Ty to step up. They don’t appear to be quick enough to actually stone a rusher off the edge.

 

[editder]

Before the season, I thought we would be 7-1 at this point in the season. The OU game still really scares me, but we need to get past LSU first. It seems like they are a spiraling program, and we own them, so I think we handle them. Not much room for error moving forward though.

I’m with you on this. Not overly worried about LSU although anything could happen, but I am concerned about both OU and the barn.

OU may be a tough matchup even though it’s at home. For some reason they seem to have our number the way we have UGA’s.

The barn game is shaping up to be the classic nightmare scenario. KD has never played there before, he probably hasn’t internalized that it’s not just another game, it’s on the road against an unranked opponent (his kryptonite), and the barn’s going to play like their hair’s on fire.

 

[BamaInBham]

I agree it’s not completely on Ty, and maybe not even 50%, but I don’t recall a long TD pass all season, and I mean one that wasn’t a catch and run. There have been drops, poor judgements by the receivers, and PI’s, but Ty just hasn’t hit on several. I’m sure it will happen and it’s probably partially just bad luck that it hasn’t happened, but I do feel like it’s the lone deficiency in his game.

Mike Rodak said that Ty was 1-4 on passes 30+ yards past the LOS for the year coming into the game. He was 0-6 in this game.

It’s possible that Alabama will have to prove it can complete these or defenses will be able to focus on the intermediate part of the field only since Bama is having such difficulty running the ball. So short and long parts of the field are not much of a worry.

Of course the staff and players are likely working feverishly to remedy both issues. It’s clear that Alabama is a passing team and IMO, should first take advantage of any remedies there, then just do the best they can with the running game. I.e., use the best pass pro OL personnel and go from there. IMO, while not great they aren’t bad at pass pro and Ty is clever in the pocket.

 

[arthurdawg]

Mike Rodak said that Ty was 1-4 on passes 30+ yards past the LOS for the year coming into the game. He was 0-6 in this game.

It’s possible that Alabama will have to prove it can complete these or defenses will be able to focus on the intermediate part of the field only since Bama is having such difficulty running the ball. So short and long parts of the field are not much of a worry.

Of course the staff and players are likely working feverishly to remedy both issues. It’s clear that Alabama is a passing team and IMO, should first take advantage of any remedies there, then just do the best they can with the running game. I.e., use the best pass pro OL personnel and go from there. IMO, while not great they aren’t bad at pass pro and Ty is clever in the pocket.

It would be nice to connect on 50% of the 30+ yard throws and average a solid 120 on the ground in our next three games. Not counting the scrimmage, where I hope we let Hill and Dear run wild with Keelon joining them.

 

[AlexanderFan]

Agree it wasn't due to "inexperience," which would have probably shown up sooner rather than now.

But I did watch the game again yesterday and Ty was definitely off even on plays when he had plenty of time.

Case in point was the GB crossing route (which I think was a 4th down) when he had 7-10 yards on the DB and Ty inexplicably overthrew him. I watched the play a couple of times and Ty had NO PRESSURE on that pass play. This was no doubt the biggest play we missed that would have totally blown the game wide open because GB would have scored an easy TD.

Someone mentioned Ty's been dealing with some injuries, so maybe that was it. But, as a former basketball player whose game was built on shooting 3s, I know for a fact there are simply "off days" that drive you nuts! Maybe it was that.

But to his credit, that 4th quarter drive for the tie was almost perfect!!!

Plus he’s played more football this year than at any point of his life. This off week should help the fatigue a little I hope.

 

[AlexanderFan]

So defenses are baiting us to run in the A/B gap and we are taking the bait?

Not baiting, that’s the weakness, and we are unable to take advantage of it.

 

[AlexanderFan]

At this point, it looks as though the best we can hope for from the OTs is that they be able to at least force edge rushers wide enough for Ty to step up. They don’t appear to be quick enough to actually stone a rusher off the edge.

The interior gets dented, and he steps into an offensive lineman sometimes.

Guards struggle on some plays as well.

 

[UAH]

nearly every one of them were wide freaking open, but ty overthrew.

i hope he can start hitting some of those

One observation I would make about Ty's throws at SC is that any QB even Tom Brady loses accuracy when they have a taller defensive tackle or speed rusher coming in their face. It becomes more difficult to make accurate throws even when the defense is blocked.

Three tough games left in the regular season. I dread going into the mad house for an all out war with them trying to make their season.

 

[Bamabuzzard]

One observation I would make about Ty's throws at SC is that any QB even Tom Brady loses accuracy when they have a taller defensive tackle or speed rusher coming in their face. It becomes more difficult to make accurate throws even when the defense is blocked.

Three tough games left in the regular season. I dread going into the mad house for an all out war with them trying to make their season.

The OU game is potentially going to be a nightmare game for our OL. Its realistic if our OL has a bad game that we get shutout or dont score over 10 points. They are that good on their DL.

 

[AlexanderFan]

The OU game is potentially going to be a nightmare game for our OL. Its realistic if our OL has a bad game that we get shutout or dont score over 10 points. They are that good on their DL.

Maybe that’s why we’ve shelved the rollouts here the past few games, less film.

Hopefully they roll him left a good bit and use it to get away from the interior and the right edge. Also, that gives our best lineman the ability to drive into his block.

 

[Bamabuzzard]

Maybe that’s why we’ve shelved the rollouts here the past few games, less film.

Hopefully they roll him left a good bit and use it to get away from the interior and the right edge. Also, that gives our best lineman the ability to drive into his block.

They need to look at the Ole Miss tape and see what they did because Lane put 30+ on them.

 

[CoolBreeze]

Ryan Grubb tells what Alabama is doing to fix run game

Alabama football’s run game has been a topic of conversation in the Crimson Tide’s last two performances. The Tide’s run game showed some life late in its win against South Carolina, but before the second half of the game, the Tide’s running backs had only picked up 54 yards on 25 carries in...

www.yardbarker.com

 

[NoNC4Tubs]

I’m with you on this. Not overly worried about LSU although anything could happen, but I am concerned about both OU and the barn.

OU may be a tough matchup even though it’s at home. For some reason they seem to have our number the way we have UGA’s.

The barn game is shaping up to be the classic nightmare scenario. KD has never played there before, he probably hasn’t internalized that it’s not just another game, it’s on the road against an unranked opponent (his kryptonite), and the barn’s going to play like their hair’s on fire.

Somebody please tell him the barn (and OU) are notorious for stealing signals!

 

[graydogg85]

I think some of the run game struggles are schematic in nature. DeBoer’s offense is rooted in Leach / Mumme Air Raid concepts. It’s more balanced than the pure Air Raid and it adds tight ends and some power formations, but it’s always going to be a pass-heavy scheme. Last season was a real aberration and was mostly the staff trying to cater to what Milroe could reasonably do. Grubb in particular is historically a pass-heavy OC. I think he’s heard the noise and realizes he’s in the SEC and he’s stubbornly trying to run more often because “by golly, we’ve got to run the ball” when in reality he’d prefer to go full Leach and sling it 50 times a game.

Our run blocking concepts include a ton of “duo” which is double-teaming a DL, and a ton of pulling guards. Our current offensive line is too big/heavy to be consistently effective in pulling and getting out in space quickly, and the duo stuff is easy to diagnose. I think we are trying to run the ball while paying lip service to effective run blocking concepts for our personnel. I’m not sure this is something that gets fixed this season, particularly since it tends to follow Grubb around. I think if we had a scat back with blazing speed and a more nimble OL, we’d have much better rushing stats on roughly equivalent attempts.

Those of you pining for Pittman: two things - the dude is well into his 60s and has some health issues and was probably retiring this season regardless, and he’s (to my knowledge) never coached in a system like ours. I think it’d be a bad fit.

Personally I’m of the opinion that we are who we are at this point, and we should just sling it and make sure we get the ball out a bit quicker. To be completely fair, #6 for Carolina is top 3-4 nationally as far as edge guys go. Not sure we’ll face another individual player this season who is that disruptive.

 

[arthurdawg]

I think some of the run game struggles are schematic in nature. DeBoer’s offense is rooted in Leach / Mumme Air Raid concepts. It’s more balanced than the pure Air Raid and it adds tight ends and some power formations, but it’s always going to be a pass-heavy scheme. Last season was a real aberration and was mostly the staff trying to cater to what Milroe could reasonably do. Grubb in particular is historically a pass-heavy OC. I think he’s heard the noise and realizes he’s in the SEC and he’s stubbornly trying to run more often because “by golly, we’ve got to run the ball” when in reality he’d prefer to go full Leach and sling it 50 times a game.

Our run blocking concepts include a ton of “duo” which is double-teaming a DL, and a ton of pulling guards. Our current offensive line is too big/heavy to be consistently effective in pulling and getting out in space quickly, and the duo stuff is easy to diagnose. I think we are trying to run the ball while paying lip service to effective run blocking concepts for our personnel. I’m not sure this is something that gets fixed this season, particularly since it tends to follow Grubb around. I think if we had a scat back with blazing speed and a more nimble OL, we’d have much better rushing stats on roughly equivalent attempts.

Those of you pining for Pittman: two things - the dude is well into his 60s and has some health issues and was probably retiring this season regardless, and he’s (to my knowledge) never coached in a system like ours. I think it’d be a bad fit.

Personally I’m of the opinion that we are who we are at this point, and we should just sling it and make sure we get the ball out a bit quicker. To be completely fair, #6 for Carolina is top 3-4 nationally as far as edge guys go. Not sure we’ll face another individual player this season who is that disruptive.

Well... Kam and Proctor are seniors, so we should have a smaller group next year, that is still quite large. I hope we can mod the offense or find guys who can run it better.

 

[Joefus]

Well... Kam and Proctor are seniors, so we should have a smaller group next year, that is still quite large. I hope we can mod the offense or find guys who can run it better.

Almost everyone is gone off the line after this season- proctor while a jr is gone. Kam is a senior i believe, brailsford will go top 15 easy so he’s gone, vandermark is a rsr, and Roberts is a rsr. I’m assuming formby will be Rg next year and Carroll will be rt. But unless we get real busy in the portal our oline next year might be worse