Michael Vick........former Falcons QB legal problems

[PaulD]

According to espn, it is an indictment by a federal grand jury. It will be late 2008 (at the earliest) before this finally goes to trial. Because Vick is not a "repeat offender," the NFL will not suspend him for this indictment alone.

Apparently, the U.S. District Court in Richmond has a reputation for getting cases to trial quickly. One estimate I heard was as early as this November or early in the new year.

As to whether this would void his contract, unlike the contract of a certain CFB coach in Tuscaloosa, NFL contracts aren't guaranteed. The Falcons could simply terminate his contract, but for cap purposes, the part of his signing bonus that counted against future years, would be added to this year's numbers.

 

[BocaLance]

I don't see how the NFL can let him play this season with this hanging over his head. If Pacman Jones can be disciplined despite a conviction, this situation is begging for a suspension.

The Atlanta radio stations this morning were ridiculous. First it started with the whole debate of his innocence vs. presumption of guilt, then spiraled into the depths of race, and then completely jumping the tracks again into a debate about use of the "N" word.

 

[Jon]

Let me direct you to the indictment. It contains very specific allegations of fact of direct involvement and participation of Michael Vick. If you don't have the time to read it in its entirety then maybe reading paragraph 53 will give you the flavor of the allegations of the indictment (and the evidence presented to the grand jury leading to issuance of the indictment)

In or about March of 2003, PEACE, after consulting with VICK about the losing female pit bull's condition, executed the losing dog by wetting the dog down with water and electrocuting the animal.​

Granted, he's entitled to a trial. Afterwards, if the feds prove their case, it would be nice if they hosed him down and tasered him.

I have read through most of it, the feds have two (oops make it 4!) corroborating witnesses that put Vick as an active participant in all of the alleged activities. If guilty, I hope he see real jail time for this. There is some sick stuff in the indictment, as you pointed out

J

 

[davefrat]

I'll play devil's advocate. I think whoever is prosecuting this is trying to reach to get the conviction on Vick. Sure it was his house, but who's to say he didn't know what was going on in one of his many houses.

I mean when you provide for a lot of people like I am sure he is doing, for those in his family and entourage, it's hard for him to know what everyone is doing at all times. Can they get a conviction for guilty by something his cousin was doing at his house? We'll have to wait and see. I'm gonna wait for more facts.

Now if he was never at a dog fight nor knew what was going on at the house, then I don't think he should be convicted. If not, then let the law dictate what his punishment will be.

I think the Falcons stand by him until the facts come out.

you really need to read the indictment. it's by no means a "reach" for them to indict vick. federal prosecutors usually don't seek indictments if they are not solidly sure they will get a conviction. vick's name and fingerprints are all over this thing. i think he's going to go down...and go down hard.

one of the allegations, and if proven, will destroy him forever...the allegation that not only did vick and his entourage kill animals that were not "game" enough to fight, but that they killed at least one of them by slamming it repeatedly into the ground until it was dead. in other words, they beat it to death with their bare hands.

if this is true, it's nothing short of barbarism. if he's found guilty, he should be banned from the nfl for life with absolutely no possibility of reinstatement and the team should make every effort to recoup every penny from him that they can.

i've seen a good bit of "PETA is the KGB" nonsense on here. well, if PETA's the KGB, then the people who do this kind of stuff to animals are what...the devil incarnate?

and as for the falcons should "wait and see what happens in court" talk...i think that's all, as they say in the military, a bunch of bravo sierra. whether he was directly involved in the operation (which it appears quite clear that he was), as the owner of the house, he has a duty to know what is going on there. the league does not (and should not) require that one is convicted before they are reprimanded. it's a private membership organization that can regulate its members as it sees fit.

whether he's directly involved, there's enough evidence to show that as the owner of the house, he allowed things to take place on his property that any reasonably prudent property owner would discover. at the very least it shows that he is totally irresponsible and couldn't care less whether his property was being used for horrible criminal activity. we're not talking about him lending a car to a buddy one time, and that buddy gets into some trouble. we're talking about a guy who owned a house for several years which is located only a few miles from his home town. he's never said he never went there. he's never said he's never seen the place. were those black outbuildings erected without his consent or even his knowledge? wouldn't you notice a compound of black outbuildings surrounded by a privacy fence on your own land? wouldn't you at least inquire among the tenants as to what the nature of this compound was on your property?

whether he was directly involved is one matter that can be fairly debated. whether he knew or should have known that something illegal was going on is quite another, and likely not one upon which reasonable minds can differ.

to this point, he's on the hook for his willful ignorance at least. that's enough for the team and the league to punish him. with all the money and exposure he has comes responsibility...of which to this point he's has shown himself to be completely devoid.

 

[bamanut_aj]

I think it's only fair that Vick should have to fight a pit bull to the death. Only after he's been in the same rape-stand he used for his animals, of course.

 

[kayakerjess]

I'll play devil's advocate. I think whoever is prosecuting this is trying to reach to get the conviction on Vick. Sure it was his house, but who's to say he didn't know what was going on in one of his many houses.

I mean when you provide for a lot of people like I am sure he is doing, for those in his family and entourage, it's hard for him to know what everyone is doing at all times. Can they get a conviction for guilty by something his cousin was doing at his house? We'll have to wait and see. I'm gonna wait for more facts.

Now if he was never at a dog fight nor knew what was going on at the house, then I don't think he should be convicted. If not, then let the law dictate what his punishment will be.

I think the Falcons stand by him until the facts come out.

Not to be too harsh, but you should read some of the articles.

Here's one: CNN.com

As stated by other posters, there are at least 2 (maybe 4) cooperating eyewitnesses that not only place him at the dogfights, but also testify that he exchanged money (gambling) and participated in killing the losing dogs (animal cruelty). He's guilty, and I hope he pays the price. Now, a $350,000 fine, while financially crippling to an average citizen like you or me, is a laughable amount to someone who makes $13 Mil per year. The six years in prison is nothing to sneeze at, though. I hope they hit him where it hurts, and take away his ability to play in the NFL. I'm not sure, but hopefully a couple of felony convictions, especially in the eyes of the new commish, would be enough to kick him out permanently.

 

[kayakerjess]

Just noticed the "former" in the title of the post. JH-ATL, do you know something we don't? :conf3:

 

[popechild]

I have no particular reason to believe Vick's innocent, but after what happened to the Duke lacrosse players (including remembering my own quick assumption that the "facts" were clear), I'd prefer to let the system do it's thing.

Maybe the NFL could suspend him pending outcome of the trial instead of having to either kick him out before he's actually been found guilty of anything, or letting him play with all the allegations swirling around him...

 

[TiderB]

Let me direct you to the indictment. It contains very specific allegations of fact of direct involvement and participation of Michael Vick. If you don't have the time to read it in its entirety then maybe reading paragraph 53 will give you the flavor of the allegations of the indictment (and the evidence presented to the grand jury leading to issuance of the indictment)

In or about March of 2003, PEACE, after consulting with VICK about the losing female pit bull's condition, executed the losing dog by wetting the dog down with water and electrocuting the animal.​

Granted, he's entitled to a trial. Afterwards, if the feds prove their case, it would be nice if they hosed him down and tasered him.

After reading through several pages of that document (and paragraph 53), there's no way Vick's going to be able to plead ignorance on this one. Why would somebody elect to electrocute a dog to death instead of just ending it quickly with a gun? Not that putting a dog down with a gunshot after finding out it can't fight anymore makes somebody a kind and gentle human being.

 

[TideAlum]

According to espn, it is an indictment by a federal grand jury. It will be late 2008 (at the earliest) before this finally goes to trial. Because Vick is not a "repeat offender," the NFL will not suspend him for this indictment alone.

It's painful to watch ESPN discuss the NFL. ESPN seems to be the public voice of this commissioner. It's amazing how ESPN's stance is always identical to the commish. For instance, they have whole heartedly supported the NFL's stance on Pacman Jones from the get go. Likewise, ESPN supports the NFL's ridiculous notion that Vick will be allowed due process because he is not a "repeat offender." Ultimately, the commish is going to look very foolish if he allows Vick to play while his felonies are pending, but throws the book at Pacman while his felonies are pending. Unfortunately the four letter network won't be the group pointing out the commish's inconsistencies.

 

[CHATTBRIT]

An interesting point brought up last night on NFL Access on the NFL Network was that there are other defendants indicted and while Vick may want to have a trial in the off season, the other defendants are entitled to a speedy trial.

If Vick is guilty then throw him under the jail but don't rush to judgment -- I refer you to Cecil Hurt's column above on that subject.

 

[kwftide]

This is from another forum and has no direct bearing on the Michael Vick case. However, I found it to be informative as to what goes on.

"And what you are reading about is just the tip of the iceberg.

I had the opportunity to talk with a former student who dated a drug dealer who also fought dogs. She wasn't the sharpest tack in the box. She told me how she had several pet cats and they gradually disappeared one at a time. She discovered that her boyfriend was using the cats to train the young dogs.

Here is how he did it. He chained the dogs in a line to dog houses or barrels. He would then starve the dogs for a couple of days. There was a cable that ran in front of all the dogs. The trainer would take a cat, slice it or shoot it to make it bleed and scream, put the bloody screaming cat in a burlap bag and then run the bag back and forth on the cable pully system in front of the hungry dogs. They would eventually rip the cat and the bag to shreds.

It is routine to use first free puppies and kittens from the classifieds to start young dogs. Once they get good at ripping the puppies and kittens apart they start getting free cats and dogs from the classifieds as bait. Finally they graduate to other pit bulls. Offering ANY pet for free in the classifieds is an invitation to suffering.

In some areas people are wise to them taking litters and is suspect if a lone guy wants a dog or cat or a whole litter. Unfortunately,the fighting crowd has also wised up and knows they have to look like a loving family. So they pay kids to pretend they want a cute little kitten or puppy or they pay several kids and tell the unsuspecting litter owner that each kid wants a kitten or a puppy. Since finding homes for kittens is next to impossible in areas where there is little spay/neuter...unsuspecting pet owners welcome someone coming to the door and asking for more than one pet.

The incredible suffering of all the animals that these dog fighting people come in contact with is just unimaginable. It is the reason that rescue groups are so thorough about checking references and doing home visits. Once you have rescued a kitten or a pup and made the horrific mistake of sending it to a dog fighter you are over cautious. Your mistake doesn't harm you but it causes awful suffering to the pet that you let go.

The article talks about the suffering of the dogs themselves...which is bad enough. But behind the scenes the suffering of other animals is unimaginable."

:mad2::mad2::mad2::mad2:

 

[TideAlum]

If Vick is guilty then throw him under the jail but don't rush to judgment -- I refer you to Cecil Hurt's column above on that subject.

True, Vick is innocent until proven guilty. However, this is a federal indictment involving many sources who have turned on the financial backer of this huge dog fighting business...Michael Vick.

 

[Vinny]

This whole thing is sickening. It will be interesting to see how his legal problems and his playing will impact the Falcons on and off the field.

 

[ForTide]

Can Vick get in trouble just by owning the property, even if he had no knowledge or no involvement in the dog fighting?

 

[TDBama78]

the falcons,i.ie. a. blank, are screwed. they have a player that is way over paid,really not that good of a pro qb, and has severe character problems. who would want this idiot now? the falcons are going to take a hit on this one. does the old addage ,its cheaper to keep her apply in this case? do you trade him? or do you cut him loose now. i would cut him loose.

 

[TRU]

Couldn't happen to a nicer guy. The whole Vick clan is some piece of work, if half of what has been reported about them is true.

He's up to his eyeballs in this. And he IS going down. Just watch how fast the Falcons and the NFL walk away once the big corporations start pulling their money out of anything that has to do with Vick. He's finished in the NFL and likely will end up where he belongs, mopping prison floors.

 

[JH-ATL]

Kayakerjess

No I do not, just that Author Blank the owner can/will not take this. He will bite the bullet, a 25 million one, and dump him is my best guess. And that is as it should be. Ticket holders are tired of this episode to episode with Vick. the episodes just keep getting worse.

:mad2:

 

[bamanut_aj]

I have no particular reason to believe Vick's innocent, but after what happened to the Duke lacrosse players (including remembering my own quick assumption that the "facts" were clear), I'd prefer to let the system do it's thing.

Maybe the NFL could suspend him pending outcome of the trial instead of having to either kick him out before he's actually been found guilty of anything, or letting him play with all the allegations swirling around him...

true, but that case had holes and contradictions from DAY ONE. The strippers couldn't get their stories straight, the DAs timeline had holes in it....the whole thing was shoddy from the get go.

This is a federal indictment. They work on their own time, at their own pace and they don't come up with an indictment unless they have something. This isn't some renegade DA looking for publicity.

 

[bamanut_aj]

Couldn't happen to a nicer guy. The whole Vick clan is some piece of work, if half of what has been reported about them is true.

He's up to his eyeballs in this. And he IS going down. Just watch how fast the Falcons and the NFL walk away once the big corporations start pulling their money out of anything that has to do with Vick. He's finished in the NFL and likely will end up where he belongs, mopping prison floors.

not likely. If he does ANY prison time, it won't be much. This is likely to plead out, like most federal cases. If it does to court, the Feds have a 95% success rate. I'd plead out.