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Simeon Castille Update:

TideAlum said:
The TPD is going to need a lot more officers to roam the Strip because many many people have been engaged in loud behavior. The TPD is letting criminals run rampant with dangerous shouting. It MUST be stopped!
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Everyone knows (or should) that the fact that many people break a law doesn't excuse your breaking of it or constitute a defense. Otherwise we might as well throw out speed limits, drinking ages, tax laws and numerous other statutes.
 
CapitalTider said:
Everyone knows (or should) that the fact that many people break a law doesn't excuse your breaking of it or constitute a defense. Otherwise we might as well throw out speed limits, drinking ages, tax laws and numerous other statutes.
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Sounds llike a plan!:biggrin2:
 
dvldog said:
Sounds llike a plan!:biggrin2:
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Not to derail this thread too much, but it seems to be working with immigration. I mean we can't force 12 million people to obey the law, so let's just abolish it. Do you think if we got 12 million people to stop paying income taxes they would just repeal that?
 
CapitalTider said:
Everyone knows (or should) that the fact that many people break a law doesn't excuse your breaking of it or constitute a defense. Otherwise we might as well throw out speed limits, drinking ages, tax laws and numerous other statutes.
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Don't disagree. Everyone knows (or should) that police officers would be making arrests every moment that they are on duty because so many activities that individuals do every day could constitute breaking a law (listening to a stereo "too loud," cursing in public, going 1 mph over the speed limit, jaywalking). Police officers must make the decision to intervene when the situation is dangerous to others or the individual.

I think that the arresting officers probably thought that Simeon's behavior was more dangerous because it was coming from a large African American male instead of the multiple drunk and belligerent White co-eds who were stumbling out of the bars at the same time. Look out, loud Black man. Swarm swarm.
 
TideAlum said:
The TPD is letting criminals run rampant with dangerous shouting. It MUST be stopped!
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The Jaywalking is rampant too. I say Nip It! Nip It In The Bud!!

knotts2.jpg
 
CapitalTider said:
Everyone knows (or should) that the fact that many people break a law doesn't excuse your breaking of it or constitute a defense. Otherwise we might as well throw out speed limits, drinking ages, tax laws and numerous other statutes.
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I dont think anyone is debating the fact that he did or did not break a law. Obviously, one side has presented the facts showing that Castille did nothing too far out of the ordinary. The police have presented their facts as well with an ambiguously worded law that they have the power to interpret as they wish. I seriously doubt, being on the strip, that Castille's voice was the only noise being heard at that moment.
 
silentsam74 said:
The police have presented their facts as well with an ambiguously worded law that they have the power to interpret as they wish. I seriously doubt, being on the strip, that Castille's voice was the only noise being heard at that moment.
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What's ambigious about it? Sure, it's broad, but what's ambigious? Also, I don't see anything in the law that says the law doesn't apply if another noise may be heard at that moment. Are you saying that the law may only apply to a single person in a sound proof booth?

The violation is so insignificant that there is no need to defend Castille. It's like arguing over a traffic ticket. So what? If he's guilty, fine... Let the team decide whether he misses a game or not and move on. 18 pages for this?
 
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I still think the time being 2am is irrelavent. I was out past 2am the other night - if you wanna hear music lots of bands do not start unitl 11pm-12am

I am certian that Saban's son being in a band has many gigs that keep him out until 2am

Just because someone is a late night/morning person does not mean they are up to no good.

Crime can happen in broad daylight and probably does more often than not

not defending Castille but radio callers and others act like if you are out at 2Am you are thug looking for trouble.
 
CapitalTider said:
Not to derail this thread too much, but it seems to be working with immigration. I mean we can't force 12 million people to obey the law, so let's just abolish it. Do you think if we got 12 million people to stop paying income taxes they would just repeal that?
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if everyone had a deeper understanding of our constitution and irs code we could all volunteer to not pay income taxes and be totally right in doing so. the problem is corupt judges and the irs. back to the thread.
 
To all of the responses some of those are valid points, but everything has to be taken in context. Reminds me of that show "Chalk Talk" one of the guys has a wheel of trouble and it has several things listed on it, such as "late at night", "women", "alcohol", "high speed", a few others. He says any one of those on their own and there isn't a problem, but when you start combining them is when the problems occur.

So sure being out at 2AM isn't that big of a deal. Being loud at 2AM is a slightly bigger deal. Being loud and "horsing around" at 2AM is bigger. Being loud, horsing around at 2AM in front of a bar even bigger. When the people being loud, horsing around at 2AM in front of a bar are four very large african american men and there are women present, it becomes something quite different than just being out at 2AM.

It's really not that big of a deal, which makes me wonder why the Castilles have chosen to escalate it to this point. If it were my kid I would probably say, "yeah it's not totally fair, but you exercised poor judgment and were doing something you shouldn't have been." Pay your fine, learn a lesson and move on.
 
TDBama78 said:
if everyone had a deeper understanding of our constitution and irs code we could all volunteer to not pay income taxes and be totally right in doing so. the problem is corupt judges and the irs.
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We don't even need to go there, but that has been rejected so many times by so many courts it is not even funny.
 
I was just surfing around some sites and found something very interesting. Seems like it fits in pretty well with this...

For example, under Arizona law simply yelling at somebody without taking any other ‘hostile’ action, can be legally construed as ‘threatening and intimidating’ and opens the door whereupon an arrest can be made. The ‘can be’ part is where the problem lies. Under Arizona law there exists nearly a dozen instances whereby one could be charged for threatening and intimidating. From the choice of words used to describe these instances, it covers almost everything imaginable… giving excessive latitude to the police officer’s discretionary powers. While it is unlikely charges would be filed against a person for simply yelling at someone, the point is… charges might be, or might not be, filed. Arbitrary... no? As we all know, the option of whether or not an arrest should be made belongs to the police officer. Except where does ‘option’ fit in the rule of law? The term ‘rule of law’ suggests strict adherence… not flexibility. If options and flexibility do fit then the concept (as a theory) isn’t sound.

In order for the rule of law to become an actuality laws must (should) be strictly enforced. Strictly enforced I say? Yes, if laws were fair and reasonable then they should be strictly enforced. We’d be better off knowing for sure where we stand... to be confident in our ability to avoid arrest. That scenario is just what the plebeian class of ancient Rome wanted... which the Law of the Twelve Tables provided. They’d have to be similarly simple laws however, laws which are clear to everyone, but most importantly laws which take away every ounce of latitude, verbiage which could potentially broaden their scope. Actually it’s a case whereby laws can be strictly enforced without putting half the population behind bars. If they are not strictly enforced how can we say we live under the rule of law?

It seems clear; instruments with discretionary latitude resemble guidelines more, not laws. Laws should be specific and the less specific they are; the less they can be described as laws. They become guidelines and since guidelines can cover a broad range of circumstances and being intentionally vague often, the end result amounts to arbitrary justice. There is a great danger having laws not narrowly specific and not strictly enforced. It’s a great danger to justice… perhaps the greatest danger. So until police discretion is removed, the rule of law concept can't exist.
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Rule of Law
 
That's an interesting read and I agree to a point, there should be some certainty in the law. However, a strict letter of the law and always sticking to it can also lead to some crazy results. There used to be equity courts and a lot of "equity theory" in the law, there is still some, but not as much. Under that theory everything is subjective and there aren't any hard and fast rules. Our system tries to strike a balance between the two. It's not perfect, but I'm not sure I would want to live under a strictly letter of the law system either. There are broad statutes that give various arms of the government some latitude. We have to trust in our system of checks and balances to make sure that that latitude is not abused. If these policeman overstepped their bounds, I hope the court sorts it out. Had the defendant been anyone else, and had they posed a risk to other people, without such a law the police could not have removed the person before they hurt anyone. I can't say I like that result any better.
 
CapitalTider said:
That's an interesting read and I agree to a point, there should be some certainty in the law. However, a strict letter of the law and always sticking to it can also lead to some crazy results. There used to be equity courts and a lot of "equity theory" in the law, there is still some, but not as much. Under that theory everything is subjective and there aren't any hard and fast rules. Our system tries to strike a balance between the two. It's not perfect, but I'm not sure I would want to live under a strictly letter of the law system either. There are broad statutes that give various arms of the government some latitude. We have to trust in our system of checks and balances to make sure that that latitude is not abused. If these policeman overstepped their bounds, I hope the court sorts it out. Had the defendant been anyone else, and had they posed a risk to other people, without such a law the police could not have removed the person before they hurt anyone. I can't say I like that result any better.
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You're probably right, and I guess we've come to an agreement. I'll say I'm going to get out of this one for awhile before it explodes or goes Nonsports on us. :biggrin::redface::biggrin2:
 
TideAlum said:
I think that the arresting officers probably thought that Simeon's behavior was more dangerous because it was coming from a large African American male instead of the multiple drunk and belligerent White co-eds who were stumbling out of the bars at the same time. Look out, loud Black man. Swarm swarm.
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:mad2: Oh please.

In the first place, Simeon isn't all that large.
 
CapitalTider said:
The other football players involved were african-american and they weren't arrested. The alleged drunk white co-eds weren't attempting to drag two other people out of a car and probably were not in the street.
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Good point. You obviously have been to the Strip on numerous occasions and know that what Simeon did rarely ever happens there. Usually at 2 am no one is out there...and never in the street...especially on a Sunday morning. That's prime sleep time to prepare for church.

It's unsettling to me that this incident was what the TPD decided to focus on at 2 a.m. They admitted that no alcohol or physical altercations were involved. I don't see why an arrest was necessary. During the time that they were making this arrest, the TPD likely allowed many drunk individuals to leave the bars, get in their cars, and drive home. If you want to crack down on a problem on the Strip, crack down on the drunk driving.
 
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