Archaeological Evidence of Carthaginian Child Sacrifice

[Tidewater]

This came from Twitter, so caveat lector.

Archaeologists in Tunisia have found evidence of massive child sacrifice at Carthage.

Archaeological evidence reveals that ancient Carthage practiced child sacrifice on a scale previously dismissed as Roman propaganda. The Tophet of Carthage—a sacred burial ground dating from 800-146 BC contains thousands of urns filled with charred infant and child remains. Modern excavations and bone analysis confirm these weren't stillbirths or natural deaths, but deliberate ritual killings performed during crisis periods and as offerings to the gods Baal Hammon and Tanit.

This not slave children being sacrificed. This was the children of "noble" families.
No wonder they needed Balearic slingers and Spanish infantry.
Here is an Oxford University piece.

Ancient Carthaginians really did sacrifice their children​

After decades of scholarship denying that the Carthaginians sacrificed their children, new research has found 'overwhelming' evidence that this ancient civilisation really did carry out the practice

 

[CrimsonJazz]

These ancient Carthaginians are probably somewhere in the Epstein files.

 

[Tidewater]

I kind of agree with Marcus Porcius Cato (go figure): the Carthaginians were scum.
And Hannibal was a loser.

 

[TIDE-HSV]

I kind of agree with Marcus Porcius Cato (go figure): the Carthaginians were scum.
And Hannibal was a loser.

Well, you've always used his bust. Actually, he sent me back to my Latin books with his "Carthago delenda est" quote. I couldn't understand its being in the present tense, when Hannibal was having the success he was having. The explanation is that "delenda" is a "gerundive," one of which meanings is in a state of needing destruction. Therefore the present tense of "esse" is correct...

 

[Tidewater]

Well, you've always used his bust. Actually, he sent me back to my Latin books with his "Carthago delenda est" quote. I couldn't understand its being in the present tense, when Hannibal was having the success he was having. The explanation is that "delenda" is a "gerundive," one of which meanings is in a state of needing destruction. Therefore the present tense of "esse" is correct...

Latin has a lot of weird constructions like that at its highest levels of complexity. English uses lots of modal auxiliary verbs for stuff like that. Maybe "Carthage is to be destroyed," is a de ent translation.
It is not terribly difficult to speak Latin. It is difficult to speak it well. Like most languages, I suppose.

Hannibal spent years in Italy, but never learned to speak Latin, the language of his main (and most dire) enemy. (Hannibal needed a translator to speak with Scipio Africanus before Scipio beat Hannibal like a rented mule at Zama). In a decade in Italy, Hannibal only succeeded in peeling away a handful of the Roman allies in cities of Magna Graecia. Most cities on the peninsula knew better than to double cross Rome because after the conflict was over, Rome would still be there, and Rome remembered things. As Plutarch said (speaking of Sulla, but the sentiment serves Rome here as well):
οὔτε τῶν φίλων τις αὐτὸν εὖ ποιῶν οὔτε τῶν ἐχθρῶν κακῶς ὑπερεβάλετο
(neque amicorum quisquam ipsi in bene agendo, neque inimicorum in male excelluit)
None of his friends surpassed him in returning kindness, nor any of his enemies in returning evil.
Hannibal died in exile after his home city had been burned and his countrymen enslaved or killed. Hard to be a bigger loser than that.

 

[catsbane]

Stepping on toes Tidewater. May as well be calling Mickey Mantle a 'hack' ball player.
"Hannibal spent years in Italy, but never learned to speak Latin"... source? You may be right. It's been a while since I've read on Hannibal but was under the impression that he was at least passable in Greek, one or more Iberian or Gallic languages and Latin as well as Punic. He would almost have to be to lead for 15+ years an army that was mostly Spaniards and at the end Italians.
"Hannibal died in exile after his home city had been burned and his countrymen enslaved or killed". Hannibal died 183-181 BC (disputed). Carthage burned in 146 BC (along with Corinth). He died well before.
Romans had a habit of blowing out of proportion the faults and prowess of enemies. All the better to paint themselves in a good light. To me the losers there seemed to be the countrymen who refused or maybe were unable to support Hannibal adequately and threw away their last real chance at resisting Rome.
As to the original post, likely true, I suspect. But the phrase 'glass houses' comes to mind.

 

[Tidewater]

Livy:
Hamiibal tumulum a quattuor milibus inde, tutum commodtunque alioqui, nisi quod longinquae aquationis erat, cepit. Ibi in medio locus conspectus tmdique, ne quid insidiarum esset, delectus.

XXX. Summotis pari spatio armatis cum singulis interpretibus congressi sunt, non suae modo aetatis maximi duces, sed omnis ante se memoriae, onmium gentium ctiilibet regum imperatorumve pares.


Hamiibal took a mound four miles from there, safe and convenient in other respects, except that it was a distant watercourse. There in the middle of the place, visible to all, and chosen, so that there might be no ambush.

30. Having risen to the top, each armed and with an interpreter, they met, not only the greatest generals of their age, but all those before them, equal to kings or emperors of all nations.

Having spent a decade in Italy, Hannibal still needed an interpreter to speak to a Roman, which indicates a stunning lack of intellect, or just laziness, on the part of a commander whose success in Italy lay in no small measure with gaining friends in the Italian peninsula.
Good tactician at times, but a grossly overrated general.

 

[Tidewater]

What I found really surprising in the OUP article was the extent to which historians dismissed tales of Carthaginian barbarity and cruelty as Roman propaganda, only to have archaeologists find that Carthaginians were, in fact, barbaric and cruel.
They probably should not have touched Saguntum, but pride goeth before the fall. I cannot say I shed a tear over their demise.