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Trump Attacks Iran, IV

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Sunday Morning On Al Jezeera, Iran claimed they completely destroyed the U.S. Navy base in Bahrain, home of the 5th fleet. Bahrain claims Tehran struck civilian targets. I keep seeing the U.S. has developed a cheaper way to eliminate Drones, so why haven’t we deployed those countermeasures? Unless, it was all propaganda.
Who do you believe? Our government has always not told the entire truth , but it’s sad they out and out lie, and destroy the credibility of the U.S. military in the process.
 
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bamaga said:
I was hoping to replace Ossoff, but after listening to him in interviews, and now his campaign. I will probably vote for him. I like common sense politicians. Shelley Wynter, the Georgia conservative talk show host, endorsed him over Trump’s candidate and floated his name as a possible Democratic Presidential candidate in 2028.
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He's trying to get reelected in a purple state. His interviews and campaigning bear little resemblance to his voting record.
 
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bamaga said:
Sunday Morning On Al Jezeera, Iran claimed they completely destroyed the U.S. Navy base in Bahrain, home of the 5th fleet. Bahrain claims Tehran struck civilian targets. I keep seeing the U.S. has developed a cheaper way to eliminate Drones, so why haven’t we deployed those countermeasures? Unless, it was all propaganda.
Who do you believe? Our government has always not told the entire truth , but it’s sad they out and out lie, and destroy the credibility of the U.S. military in the process.
Click to expand...

Quite honestly this has more resemblance to the Iraq-Iran War without the land battles and chemical weapons. Everyone is projecting
 
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bamaga said:
I was hoping to replace Ossoff, but after listening to him in interviews, and now his campaign. I will probably vote for him. I like common sense politicians. Shelley Wynter, the Georgia conservative talk show host, endorsed him over Trump’s candidate and floated his name as a possible Democratic Presidential candidate in 2028.
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In the same way that we will end up with Tubbs in a landslide here over the even keeled and very reasonable Doug Jones who would actually be good for the state and the people of the state. Instead... More grifting and things that are not language appropriate for TideFans.
 
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bamaga said:
Sunday Morning On Al Jezeera, Iran claimed they completely destroyed the U.S. Navy base in Bahrain, home of the 5th fleet. Bahrain claims Tehran struck civilian targets. I keep seeing the U.S. has developed a cheaper way to eliminate Drones, so why haven’t we deployed those countermeasures? Unless, it was all propaganda.
Who do you believe? Our government has always not told the entire truth , but it’s sad they out and out lie, and destroy the credibility of the U.S. military in the process.
Click to expand...

I'm not quite sure I believe that we have them. We seem to be paying lip service to a huge amount of practical knowledge and experience from the Ukranian army about drones, but not really implementing anything.

They hit some of our bases pretty hard early on. We may learn that small cheap drones are an achilles heel for us, same as the Russkies.
 
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bamaga said:
Sunday Morning On Al Jezeera, Iran claimed they completely destroyed the U.S. Navy base in Bahrain, home of the 5th fleet. Bahrain claims Tehran struck civilian targets. I keep seeing the U.S. has developed a cheaper way to eliminate Drones, so why haven’t we deployed those countermeasures? Unless, it was all propaganda.
Who do you believe? Our government has always not told the entire truth , but it’s sad they out and out lie, and destroy the credibility of the U.S. military in the process.
Click to expand...
Probably two explanations.
1. Having developed a counterdrone system is one thing. Fielding operationally significant copies of that along with the doctrine, organization, training, leadership, and facilities to make that system work is another.
2. Sometimes you do not field a weapons system because you do not want to tip your hand, especially if another more serious conflict is in the offing.
The British RAF actually fielded a jet fighter during World War II, but only allowed it to fly defensive counter air (fighter patrols over friendly ground to defeat enemy offensive air missions) because, if the RAF used the jet for Allied offensive air missions (i.e. over German-held ground) and it got shot down, German engineers would be crawling around the wreckage looking for the Allied jet's weaknesses. Flying only over Allied-controlled land meant they did not have to worry about that.
The drone war in Ukraine has been an elaborate dance between the two combatants. Measures on one side lead shortly thereafter to countermeasures on the other. It actually resembles the air war in World War I.
If the US employs its best counterdrone system against Iran, you can bet Russian and Chinese scientists will begin developing ways to defeat it.
 
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Tidewater said:
Probably two explanations.
1. Having developed a counterdrone system is one thing. Fielding operationally significant copies of that along with the doctrine, organization, training, leadership, and facilities to make that system work is another.
2. Sometimes you do not field a weapons system because you do not want to tip your hand, especially if another more serious conflict is is in the offing.
The British RAF actually fielded a jet fighter during World War II, but only allowed it to fly defensive counter air (fighter patrols over friendly ground to defeat enemy offensive air missions) because, if the RAF used the jet for Allied offensive air missions (i.e. over German-held ground) and it got shot down, German engineers would be crawling around the wreckage looking for the Allied jet's weaknesses. Flying only over Allied-controlled land meant they did not have to worry about that.
The drone war in Ukraine has been an elaborate dance between the two combatants. Measures on one side lead shortly thereafter to countermeasures on the other. It actually resembles the air war in World War I.
If the US employs its best counterdrone system against Iran, you can bet Russian and Chinese scientists will begin developing ways to defeat it.
Click to expand...
Based on what Russia has been doing in terms of spoofing and redirecting Ukrainian drones and Ukraine developing alternatives to defeat Russian hacking of their guidance systems I would expect that Hegseth's war department is so far behind China, Russia and Ukraine and that the US doesn't have a lot to reveal to them.
 
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UAH said:
Based on what Russia has been doing in terms of spoofing and redirecting Ukrainian drones and Ukraine developing alternatives to defeat Russian hacking of their guidance systems I would expect that Hegseth's war department is so far behind China, Russia and Ukraine and that the US doesn't have a lot to reveal to them.
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If they are not revealing them, how do you know?

From open sources, I believe that DoD has adopted a layered approach to drones. The 3,000 rounds per minute gatling guns are effective, but short-ranged (and those bullets have to go somewhere, which is why they are popular with the Navy). Gatling guns can only engage so many drones at one time, so they are best for "leakers."
Jamming guidance systems is also effective, but requires an active transmitter and how many freqs can you jam and for how long?
Spoofing is effective, but how many drones can you spoof at one time?
Missiles are only cost-effective for the biggest and most damaging of drones.

At any rate, DoD is optimized for effectiveness, not efficiency, so you will probably see multiple layered defense techniques.
And, a large part of the effectiveness of any drone defense is keeping from potential enemies what you are doing so they cannot start developing countermeasures until their drones start getting knocked down.
 
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Tidewater said:
If they are not revealing them, how do you know?

From open sources, I believe that DoD has adopted a layered approach to drones. The 3,000 rounds per minute gatling guns are effective, but short-ranged (and those bullets have to go somewhere, which is why they are popular with the Navy). Gatling guns can only engage so many drones at one time, so they are best for "leakers."
Jamming guidance systems is also effective, but requires an active transmitter and how many freqs can you jam and for how long?
Spoofing is effective, but how many drones can you spoof at one time?
Missiles are only cost-effective for the biggest and most damaging of drones.

At any rate, DoD is optimized for effectiveness, not efficiency, so you will probably see multiple layered defense techniques.
And, a large part of the effectiveness of any drone defense is keeping from potential enemies what you are doing so they cannot start developing countermeasures until their drones start getting knocked down.
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Nuke them from orbit. It's the only way.
 
bamaga said:
Sunday Morning On Al Jezeera, Iran claimed they completely destroyed the U.S. Navy base in Bahrain, home of the 5th fleet. Bahrain claims Tehran struck civilian targets. I keep seeing the U.S. has developed a cheaper way to eliminate Drones, so why haven’t we deployed those countermeasures? Unless, it was all propaganda.
Who do you believe? Our government has always not told the entire truth , but it’s sad they out and out lie, and destroy the credibility of the U.S. military in the process.
Click to expand...
Thats an understatement and trump has the media kowtowing to him.
 
arthurdawg said:
Nuke them from orbit. It's the only way.
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At a certain point, the US may have to abandon a counterforce strategy and adopt a countervalue strategy. If you cannot stop the drones and missiles, then attack something the IRGC values: oil infrastructure (e.g. Kargh Island) or something else and make them want to stop. Force the Iranian government to stop the drone strikes. Right now, they are undisciplined, in the sense that the government signs a cease-fire, but some local commander decides to keep fighting. Not good.
 
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Tidewater said:
At a certain point, the US may have to abandon a counterforce strategy and adopt a countervalue strategy. If you cannot stop the drones and missiles, then attack something the IRGC values: oil infrastructure (e.g. Kargh Island) or something else and make them want to stop. Force the Iranian government to stop the drone strikes. Right now, they are undisciplined, in the sense that the government signs a cease-fire, but some local commander decides to keep fighting. Not good.
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I believe the situation is a bit different from that. From the outside, it appears there are at least two centers of power - relatively moderate (by Iranian standards) politicians, who are at least a little bit sensitive to public opinion and OTOH, the IRGC. I may be wrong, but I believe they are the ones giving the orders to continue, which is in their interests, to local commanders. I shouldn't be surprised if the commanders are not divided in loyalties to one faction or another...
 
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Tidewater said:
At a certain point, the US may have to abandon a counterforce strategy and adopt a countervalue strategy. If you cannot stop the drones and missiles, then attack something the IRGC values: oil infrastructure (e.g. Kargh Island) or something else and make them want to stop. Force the Iranian government to stop the drone strikes. Right now, they are undisciplined, in the sense that the government signs a cease-fire, but some local commander decides to keep fighting. Not good.
Click to expand...

Well when you kill the one guy keeping the crazies in line it was pretty much inevitable that the military would try to take over. But what do you really expect from the Zionists in Israel and the Zionist in America who think in one dimensional planning.
 
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