I love our system of government. I love the idea that government can and should be a force for good.
Our government as its currently run, on the other hand...
The Decline of the American Media IV
- Thread starter 4Q Basket Case
- Start date
Our government as its currently run, on the other hand...
Here's a terrific perspective on journalism and our current situation...I read Tangle every day and find it informative and thoughtful:
www.readtangle.com
What I'll be celebrating this weekend.
Some reflections on the spirit of the American press.
www.readtangle.com
They have all fallen because of small incremental concessions. A teeny little bit at a time, down a long and slippery slope.
Each concession was made possible by (1) the idea that, spread out over the population, the pain to each individual was virtually imperceptible, and (2) appeals to the heart, as opposed to the brain — the legal eagles call this, “good cases making bad law.”
Then the populace figured out they could vote themselves into the Treasury.
And as the kids say, here we are.
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Fox News Poisoned America And Killed The Goodness In People We Love
We The People should file a class-action suit against them
open.substack.com
Fox News Poisoned America And Killed The Goodness In People We Love
We The People should file a class-action suit against them
Hatred is a slow poison.
Once it finds its way into the bloodstream, it gradually begins destroying a human being from the inside out. It does its work almost imperceptibly, driving out critical thinking, eradicating empathy, and hardening the heart.Since October 7, 1996, hundreds of millions of the people we love and live alongside have been hourly exposed to a corrosive, cancerous toxin that has rendered them shells of the people they were before. We all have the stories of the people we’ve lost and the moments we realized they’d been polluted.
and the seeds of this were sown on a.m. talk radio in the years leading up to fox newsFox News Poisoned America And Killed The Goodness In People We Love
We The People should file a class-action suit against them
Fox News Poisoned America And Killed The Goodness In People We Love
We The People should file a class-action suit against them
Hatred is a slow poison.
Once it finds its way into the bloodstream, it gradually begins destroying a human being from the inside out. It does its work almost imperceptibly, driving out critical thinking, eradicating empathy, and hardening the heart.
Since October 7, 1996, hundreds of millions of the people we love and live alongside have been hourly exposed to a corrosive, cancerous toxin that has rendered them shells of the people they were before. We all have the stories of the people we’ve lost and the moments we realized they’d been polluted.
Talk radio was the first part of seeing most of my older relatives wander into a much darker place...
there is a big chunk of folks who were told daily for hours on end that everyone is stupid but them. and those same folks unironically referred to themselves as “ditto heads”
We don't disagree deeply very often, but I'd say it's not the populace in general who have voted (or bought) their way into the treasury. SNAP benefits sliced; AFF constricted, etc. Tax policy over the last 30 years or so has definitely NOT benefitted the populace as a whole...
You're right. We don't fundamentally disagree often. This may be one of the few times.
There are two ways to vote yourself into the Treasury. One is to not have to pay tax.
My statement about voting themselves into the treasury is based in part on the distribution of income taxes paid vs. income earned. In April of this year, The Tax Foundation published the latest information they had on that. It was from 2023. I've seen other earlier years, and they looked substantially the same, so I'd be surprised if 2024 was materially different. And it's way too early for 2025 data.
So here's a summary chart using calendar year end 2023 data:
The bottom 50% of filers pay little or no federal income tax. The hated 1% earn a bit over 20% of total income, but pay a bit over 38% of total taxes paid. The top 5% pays 59% of all income taxes paid. The bottom half makes 12% of the income and pays 3% of the taxes. I could detail further, but the chart is probably a better depiction of the idea.
In case anyone is interested in the site, here's the link:
Summary of the Latest Federal Income Tax Data, Tax Year 2023
New IRS data shows the US federal income tax system continues to be progressive as high-income taxpayers pay the highest average income tax rates. Average tax rates for all income groups remain lower after the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act (TCJA).
taxfoundation.org
The above chart is based on filers, not people. Here's a link to a chart showing that 21.5% of the US population is under 18.
https://theworlddata.com/us-population-by-age/#google_vignette
Most of them don't file a return at all. And the ones that do typically don't earn enough to pay tax.....they're filing to get a refund. So that bottom 50% of filers that pay 3% of the federal income tax misses almost everyone under 16, and a lot of the 16 and 17 year olds.
Yes, there are some teens and younger who make a lot of money. But versus the population as a whole, they account for a minuscule portion of people and income, and do not move the nationwide needle for purposes of this discussion.
Point being, well over 50% of the population pays little to no federal income tax.
Contrary to what the press would have us believe, the high earners pay not just the most dollars, but also the highest tax rates -- 26% for the 1%, a skooch under 23% for the 5%, ratcheting down to less than 4% for the bottom half -- which again doesn't count the folks who don't file at all.
The other way to vote yourself into the Treasury is to get bennies. I'm still upset about the Covid payments because we're still paying the price for that and will be for some time.
There were 3 rounds of $3 Trillion each.....$9 Trillion total. The first one was absolutely necessary because both the US and the global economies were on the verge of collapse. The second one was too big. It should have been $1 Trillion or less. And the third one was absolute pork.
That was just one of the programs that wasted money, though it was the largest.
Anyway, nothing is going to help the budget deficit (i.e. voting yourself into the Treasury by spending way more than the Treasury takes in) until we address both Social Security and Medicare. All that DOGE stuff was nibbling at corners and scufflin' for pennies. Until the two Balrogs are fixed, the rest doesn't amount to a burp in a hurricane.
And Peace, my crimson brother. Even if we still disagree, that's OK. I'm sure I'll learn something, and I nevertheless have the highest respect for you.
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Good data.
I'd say the major issue with the 1% and the tax they pay is that they make enough money that if you doubled their taxes* they wouldn't effectively notice it, other than that they'd invest less in stocks. The bottom 50% struggle and eventually are hand to mouth and can't afford the basics given the disparity in incomes. It is a complex issue with many facets... And no easy answer.
* just spitballing there... but suffice to say that as your wealth goes past 100k in a typical area and beyond 500k in most areas you can afford life and then afford lots of life. The 1% thresh hold currently starts at an income of 750k.
The 0.1% starts at an annual income of 3 million and controls 15% of the wealth...
Not saying it has to be equal, but the disparity is substantial.
I'd say the major issue with the 1% and the tax they pay is that they make enough money that if you doubled their taxes* they wouldn't effectively notice it, other than that they'd invest less in stocks. The bottom 50% struggle and eventually are hand to mouth and can't afford the basics given the disparity in incomes. It is a complex issue with many facets... And no easy answer.
* just spitballing there... but suffice to say that as your wealth goes past 100k in a typical area and beyond 500k in most areas you can afford life and then afford lots of life. The 1% thresh hold currently starts at an income of 750k.
The 0.1% starts at an annual income of 3 million and controls 15% of the wealth...
Not saying it has to be equal, but the disparity is substantial.
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The problem with our economy is the bottom 50% dont make enough to pay any tax. And the top 5% pay 38% of the taxes that are in adequate to fund our government.You're right. We don't fundamentally disagree often. This may be one of the few times.
There are two ways to vote yourself into the Treasury. One is to not have to pay tax.
My statement about voting themselves into the treasury is based in part on the distribution of income taxes paid vs. income earned. In April of this year, The Tax Foundation published the latest information they had on that. It was from 2023. I've seen other earlier years, and they looked substantially the same, so I'd be surprised if 2024 was materially different. And it's way too early for 2025 data.
So here's a summary chart using calendar year end 2023 data:
View attachment 57935
The bottom 50% of filers pay little or no federal income tax. The hated 1% earn a bit over 20% of total income, but pay a bit over 38% of total taxes paid. The top 5% pays 59% of all income taxes paid. The bottom half makes 12% of the income and pays 3% of the taxes. I could detail further, but the chart is probably a better depiction of the idea.
In case anyone is interested in the site, here's the link:
Summary of the Latest Federal Income Tax Data, Tax Year 2023
New IRS data shows the US federal income tax system continues to be progressive as high-income taxpayers pay the highest average income tax rates. Average tax rates for all income groups remain lower after the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act (TCJA).
The above chart is based on filers, not people. Here's a link to a chart showing that 21.5% of the US population is under 18.
https://theworlddata.com/us-population-by-age/#google_vignette
Most of them don't file a return at all. And the ones that do typically don't earn enough to pay tax.....they're filing to get a refund. So that bottom 50% of filers that pay 3% of the federal income tax misses almost everyone under 16, and a lot of the 16 and 17 year olds.
Yes, there are some teens and younger who make a lot of money. But versus the population as a whole, they account for a minuscule portion of people and income, and do not move the nationwide needle for purposes of this discussion.
Point being, well over 50% of the population pays little to no federal income tax.
Contrary to what the press would have us believe, the high earners pay not just the most dollars, but also the highest tax rates -- 26% for the 1%, a skooch under 23% for the 5%, ratcheting down to less than 4% for the bottom half -- which again doesn't count the folks who don't file at all.
The other way to vote yourself into the Treasury is to get bennies. I'm still upset about the Covid payments because we're still paying the price for that and will be for some time.
There were 3 rounds of $3 Trillion each.....$9 Trillion total. The first one was absolutely necessary because both the US and the global economies were on the verge of collapse. The second one was too big. It should have been $1 Trillion or less. And the third one was absolute pork.
That was just one of the programs that wasted money, though it was the largest.
Anyway, nothing is going to help the budget deficit (i.e. voting yourself into the Treasury by spending way more than the Treasury takes in) until we address both Social Security and Medicare. All that DOGE stuff was nibbling at corners and scufflin' for pennies. Until the two Balrogs are fixed, the rest doesn't amount to a burp in a hurricane.
And Peace, my crimson brother. Even if we still disagree, that's OK. I'm sure I'll learn something, and I nevertheless have the highest respect for you.
If it were up to me, I would let corporations enhance their tax deduction for non-officer salary and wages. For every $1 paid you get $1.25 in income tax deduction. I think this may incent the corporations to pay more salaries/wages which puts more money into the hands of people who pay tax and have less of political lobby.
Find the value proposition that incents them to pay their employees more versus paying income tax. Sadly, I think we would find the corporations would prefer to pay neither like many of them are doing now...
Fox News Poisoned America And Killed The Goodness In People We Love
We The People should file a class-action suit against them
Fox News Poisoned America And Killed The Goodness In People We Love
We The People should file a class-action suit against them
Hatred is a slow poison.
Once it finds its way into the bloodstream, it gradually begins destroying a human being from the inside out. It does its work almost imperceptibly, driving out critical thinking, eradicating empathy, and hardening the heart.
Since October 7, 1996, hundreds of millions of the people we love and live alongside have been hourly exposed to a corrosive, cancerous toxin that has rendered them shells of the people they were before. We all have the stories of the people we’ve lost and the moments we realized they’d been polluted.
For 25 years, the left in this country had a mantra:
Nobody actually watches Fox News, it's just a bunch of old white men being told what they already believe to be true, followed by citing how big Obama's vote was, pointing out how "we might never again have a Republican President due to changing demographics."
Now they turn on a dime and come back with, "Fox News, who we spent 25 years telling you didn't have any influence at all was actually poisoning America all this time."
FNC averages 1.7 million viewers during the day and 2.4 at night, mostly for Hannity.
And mostly the same small group of viewers that would get lost in a corner of Los Angeles.
Trump got 77 million votes.
ABC/NBC/CBS draw 10-15 times that many with their evening newscasts, you'd think that would offset Fox News easily.
I don't in any way disagree with the "Fox is biased" assessment. I've said previously on this board that from about 1996 to around 2012, they were at least close enough to reality that they could dive back into the base to it like a baserunner. They DID absolutely go full tabloid around 2012 or so.
When "they're racist" fails, pivot to "they're hopelessly brainwashed."
And besides, it wasn't Fox News who held a gun to the head of the New York Times and forced them to cover up for Platner the last month, either.
They did that all on their own and let Politico detonate the bomb.
(Personally, I've found more ignorant ipecac inducing misinformation on social media FWIW).
4 Reporters Subpoenaed After Asking About President Trump's Qatari Air Force One's Defenses
Federal agents appearing on reporters' doorsteps "should shock the conscience of any American," the Times' newsroom lawyer said.
www.military.com
I think your idea is worth exploring. More than that, I appreciate a constructive suggestion as opposed to solutionless rock-throwing.
The question is what is "fair," considering what the system has delivered you. I invite anyone to look up the marginal rate when I graduated from NYU with an LLM in Taxation in 1964. Suffice it to say that there was an outcry when the marginal rate was lowered to 70%. The Republicans have waged a very effective campaign against taxation. Europe has been much more rational in weighing benefits received, infrastructure being one glaring example, against payment for it. Ours is hopelessly skewed in an unrealistic direction...
The primary delusion is insisting on American-style tax rates with European-style benefits. The numbers simply don't work.
The Scandinavian countries are a great example of the population being happy with the combination of generous benefits funded by high taxes.
They're happy with that because they trust their governments to be generally good stewards of the money. With good reason, American's don't have that trust.
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It is a delusion for sure. But we could have had that probably back in the 1990s after the Berlin Wall fell and the crumbling of the USSR had we just maintained our existing tax policy at the time. But our leadership, regardless of party, has gone bezerk since then. NAFTA was not needed, etc... The character failures of every President since that time have contributed mightily to our accelerated demise.
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