Link: Inside Alabama's auto boom - low wages, little training, crushed limbs

4Q Basket Case · Mar 24, 2017

Bamabuzzard said:
I agree, if in their "doing well" it results in prosperity of their employees as well. Because if all the monetary prosperity is held at the top 5% of the organizational chart. Then the other 95% aren't able to go out into their community and spend their money at businesses within their community. As I mentioned regarding the GM example above. A GM employee patronizing a business was doing so with a nice wage in his wallet. Now, a GM employee can only afford a fraction above the necessities compared to what they used to be able to afford. Not only does the employee feel the impact. His/her local community does to.

Hmmm....I don't think I was clear.

You're defining the company "doing well" as the wages of the employees, both executive / management and laborers.

But my point was intended to be much broader than that -- the tens of millions of direct and indirect shareholders, and even those who might not be, but whose economic welfare is tied in with them. Like the waitstaff at a restaurant frequented by people who get money from the company either directly in the form of salary, wages or stock price. Or indirectly in the form of, say, pension payments derived from a pension fund invested in the company.

The benefits of a healthy company extend way beyond its employees of whatever wage/salary level.

Bamabuzzard · Mar 24, 2017

4Q Basket Case said:
Hmmm....I don't think I was clear.

You're defining the company "doing well" as the wages of the employees, both executive / management and laborers.

But my point was intended to be much broader than that -- the tens of millions of direct and indirect shareholders, and even those who might not be, but whose economic welfare is tied in with them. Like the waitstaff at a restaurant frequented by people who get money from the company either directly in the form of salary, wages or stock price. Or indirectly in the form of, say, pension payments derived from a pension fund invested in the company.

The benefits of a healthy company extend way beyond its employees of whatever wage/salary level.

Agreed. People who invest in the company's stock whether it be individual stock or as apart of a retirement plan benefit when the stock price does well.

Bamaro · Mar 24, 2017

There is a reason (aka unions) most of the foreign manufacturers built plants in 'right to work' states

TrampLineman · Mar 28, 2017

Bamabuzzard said:
Agreed. And speaking to the wages side of it. People who used to gripe and moan about assembly line workers being "over paid" should now be very, very happy. The workers who replaced those now retired "over paid" workers are making $12-$14/hour. Benefits such as retirement, insurance etc have been severely cut. They've also gone back into labor agreements for the "over paid" retired workers and have cut their retirement benefits as well, including insurance. I'm still waiting on the price of the vehicles to reflect the cost cutting.

Additional Note:

Many GM plants would employ thousands of workers who made very good wages. Those employees would take those wages and spend it in their town/city/community. Now, the GM worker who used to patron a business with a $25-$28/hour wallet now is coming in with a $12-$14/hour wallet. If he's coming in at all.

Well said! I'm not the biggest fan of the UAW, but I can say for a fact the IBEW saves lives and forces some of these greedy companies to play by the rules and rightfully so. It's life or death out here at times.

But as for the UAW as well though, people dogged them and blamed them for car costs and being so high the car makers left Detroit and once done so the prices would come down but guess what folks? Cars and trucks are at an all time high yet pay across the board isn't half what people were making in Detroit under the UAW!! Like you said Buzzard, the prices should have come down considering they are paying half an hour or less now but to let them tell it they are STILL paying too much and barely making a profit. I got two initials for that, one starts with a B and the other a S!

TrampLineman · Mar 28, 2017

Bamaro said:
There is a reason (aka unions) most of the foreign manufacturers built plants in 'right to work' states

And yet car prices are even higher than they have ever been. So who is to blame there? Can't blame the UAW anymore because they hardly exist anymore. A mid-size pickup is in the 40's now!! What a joke! But right to work is soooo good for us, remember? It helps because car prices will be cheaper remember? Oh wait.....

CullmanTide · Mar 28, 2017

230kv_barehand said:
And yet car prices are even higher than they have ever been. So who is to blame there? Can't blame the UAW anymore because they hardly exist anymore. A mid-size pickup is in the 40's now!! What a joke! But right to work is soooo good for us, remember? It helps because car prices will be cheaper remember? Oh wait.....

You can blame the high cost of a new car on government regulations.

seebell · Mar 28, 2017

CullmanTide said:
You can blame the high cost of a new car on government regulations.

The Heritage Foundation says regulation adds $3800 to the price of a new vehicle, mainly from CAFE standards. CAFE standards are a national security issue IMO.

http://www.heritage.org/government-regulation/report/regulation-continues-increase-car-prices

Bamaro · Mar 28, 2017

230kv_barehand said:
And yet car prices are even higher than they have ever been. So who is to blame there? Can't blame the UAW anymore because they hardly exist anymore. A mid-size pickup is in the 40's now!! What a joke! But right to work is soooo good for us, remember? It helps because car prices will be cheaper remember? Oh wait.....

Most things are and autos have much more to them today and are much better quality so increased value is a big part of it.

BamaFlum · Mar 28, 2017

Bamaro said:
Most things are and autos have much more to them today and are much better quality so increased value is a big part of it.

The quality and what you now get with a car is way above even 10 years ago: Bluetooth, wifi, air bags out the wazoo, etc.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

TrampLineman · Apr 1, 2017

I bought a Ram 4x4 back when the quad cabs were the only options for a 4-door truck. Had everything they have now except leather and nav with wifi and bluetooth. So that fake leather and wifi/bluetooth and a usb port is worth 60 grand now compared to 22 grand 18 years ago? That Ram had all the safety features my brand new Tacoma has now minus side airbags. Yet my Tacoma 4x4 was 41 grand on the sticker compared to about 24/25k on that Ram.

Yet worker pay has more than been cut in half since then as well but the prices have doubled. I guess I need to sell some bluetooth radios and start installing usb ports in trucks since that is the only difference in doubling the price in less than 20 years!

TrampLineman · Apr 1, 2017

Bamaro said:
Most things are and autos have much more to them today and are much better quality so increased value is a big part of it.

So a truck should almost cost the same as a house these days?

Bamaro · Apr 1, 2017

230kv_barehand said:
So a truck should almost cost the same as a house these days?

Maybe a double-wide.
Your 20 yr old truck (96?) is very different than a current one. Comparing apples and crabapples

TrampLineman · Apr 2, 2017

Bamaro said:
Maybe a double-wide.
Your 20 yr old truck (96?) is very different than a current one. Comparing apples and crabapples

It was actually a 98 model and was better in the woods than my 17 model. A full size crew cab with all the options can run you 65k these days and that's a half-ton. Costs more than most double-wides and more than half most decent sized homes that are pretty new. And no there is notmuch difference. The 98 had all power, V8, 4x4, 4 doors, cd player, and about everything but navigation and usb port/bluetooth. It was actually a better built truck than my 17 is too.

bama_wayne1 · Apr 3, 2017

Bamaro said:
Most things are and autos have much more to them today and are much better quality so increased value is a big part of it.

I wonder how many of these cars will still be running 60 years later. I by choice drive a 1994 F150 that I maintain as sort of a hobby. It has 270,000 miles and I drive it about 60 miles a day. It runs like a top. I own a 2004 Chevy Trailblazer one of my kids drive and it will never make it to last any where near as long. They do have more technology but I believe they are designed to die within a specific time frame.

Bamabuzzard · Apr 3, 2017

230kv_barehand said:
I bought a Ram 4x4 back when the quad cabs were the only options for a 4-door truck. Had everything they have now except leather and nav with wifi and bluetooth. So that fake leather and wifi/bluetooth and a usb port is worth 60 grand now compared to 22 grand 18 years ago? That Ram had all the safety features my brand new Tacoma has now minus side airbags. Yet my Tacoma 4x4 was 41 grand on the sticker compared to about 24/25k on that Ram.

Yet worker pay has more than been cut in half since then as well but the prices have doubled. I guess I need to sell some bluetooth radios and start installing usb ports in trucks since that is the only difference in doubling the price in less than 20 years!

Vehicles have more "stuff" now days but a lot of the parts used are of cheaper quality as well. I've replaced the motor mounts on my wife's 2009 Suburban TWICE in a year. I asked my mechanic why do they keep breaking and he said because when you make a vehicle with cheap parts they don't last. He went on to tell me to take a look around at his parking lot. You see toyota, honda, GM, Ford, JEEP, Dodge etc and the overwhelming majority are relatively new vehicles, five years old or less. He said the kind of money people pay for vehicles now days you shouldn't be replacing or "fixing" some of the stuff he's fixing on these vehicles. But he said he's not going to complain too much because it's good for his business. LOL! :biggrin:

TIDE-HSV · Apr 3, 2017

Bamabuzzard said:
Vehicles have more "stuff" now days but a lot of the parts used are of cheaper quality as well. I've replaced the motor mounts on my wife's 2009 Suburban TWICE in a year. I asked my mechanic why do they keep breaking and he said because when you make a vehicle with cheap parts they don't last. He went on to tell me to take a look around at his parking lot. You see toyota, honda, GM, Ford, JEEP, Dodge etc and the overwhelming majority are relatively new vehicles, five years old or less. He said the kind of money people pay for vehicles now days you shouldn't be replacing or "fixing" some of the stuff he's fixing on these vehicles. But he said he's not going to complain too much because it's good for his business. LOL! :biggrin:

And, also, there're fewer and fewer "user-serviceable" parts, just exorbitantly-priced parts which have to be replaced by the dealer or a garage-owner with tens of thousands of dollars in equipment...

TIDE-HSV · Apr 3, 2017

TIDE-HSV said:
And, also, there're fewer and fewer "user-serviceable" parts, just exorbitantly-priced parts which have to be replaced by the dealer or a garage-owner with tens of thousands of dollars in equipment...

For an example, my wife's late, donated Passat needed brake pads. I did enough research to find out that I couldn't simply compress the calipers with a clamp like I always had, without ruining them. I had to buy an expensive tool to screw them down The only consolation I had was that I saved enough to buy the tool with what a pad job costs these days. That car finally blew a head gasket. I don't have the time to fool with something like that any more, so I asked an old friend, former garage owner, if he wanted to do it. He informed me that he wanted no part of it. I hadn't pulled off enough plastic to see it, but the timing cover, etc. is located in the rear, jammed up against the firewall. I gave the car to a charity...

Bamabuzzard · Apr 3, 2017

TIDE-HSV said:
And, also, there're fewer and fewer "user-serviceable" parts, just exorbitantly-priced parts which have to be replaced by the dealer or a garage-owner with tens of thousands of dollars in equipment...

Yeah, just like all the "sensors" vehicles have now. Door sensors are the worst for going out. Just to replace ONE door sensor, which controls the automatic locking, unlocking of the door is $400 to replace. Yet they are frequently one of the first things to go out on "newer" vehicles. But as you said, the vehicle owner is unable to replace them himself without the proper equipment.

Link: Inside Alabama's auto boom - low wages, little training, crushed limbs

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