The 10 Most Destructive Americans of My 8 Decades

rgw

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Sep 15, 2003
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is the linked website in the original post owned by a future right-wing domestic terrorist?

the specter of american communism for conservatives is quixotic windmill tilting. it'd own if socialism was more viable in this country. alas we've had a 60+ year dismantling of all the labor gains made over the first half of the 20th century. but this is the way of a strong-armed right authoritarian regime...their basically nonexistent enemies are always at the gates.
 

selmaborntidefan

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Mar 31, 2000
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I wonder how things would have gone if Hillary doesn’t run in 2016. Her being in chased off just about everyone else.
That last statement was the biggest problem by far. That coronation had basically been held in reserve after she lost in 2008. (I thought Obama could have cut her legs off for the future by NOT putting her in his Cabinet and particularly as Secretary of State). She had the name, she was the most publicly known person running, she had no problem raising money, and it turned out (as "Shattered" reported) that she'd compiled a lot of dirt (as pretty much all high politicians do so not ripping on her) on any potential barriers. Running against her was pretty much perceived as a suicide mission (in the primaries).

So she kept out candidates, and Bernie Sanders became the "not Hillary" in the primaries (O'Malley had no prayer).


Let me offer a personal observation/theory and IN GENERAL it applies to both of the parties. The Sanders/Hillary battle was just the latest in the battle that the Ds have with the Hard Left vs the Mainstream Left. In this case, the more electable mainstream candidate got the nomination and when she lost the "true believers" rationalize her loss with every manner of excuse, one of them being that she had no conviction (which is generally another way of saying "wasn't liberal enough"). The GOP has had this war going on since Reconstruction (Stalwarts/Half Breeds, Roosevelt Left/Taft Right, Eastern Establishment/Taft-Goldwater Wing, Reagan/Bush, etc).

Both of the parties try to construct winning coalitions - but the "true believers" mess things up for both of them.

Hillary was pretty much a de facto nominee in waiting for eight years (unless Biden ran), but it wasn't entirely her fault


So could a random Democrat have beaten Trump?
Is it not bizarre that we have gone in such a short time from "Trump cannot possibly be elected" to "who could have beaten him"?

Trump was never an inevitability. He could not possibly have won a GOP primary prior to 2012. The guy isn't - in the real world - "conservative" at all. He was the result of a crowded field, a big name, a small electorate that votes in the primaries, the beneficiary of Cruz and Rubio (in particular) splitting the same votes, the social media era (like it or not, Trump talks to people the way folks do online).

I think - in my efforts to dodge your question (ha ha) - that there IS a Democrat out there that could have beaten Trump, but I can't give you a name of whom I know at present. Look at who has won for the Democrats in the last 30 years - a handsome, articulate, academic achiever, charismatic who cuts into the other party's edge vote and doesn't frighten the center. And most importantly - can get away with deviations from standard liberal orthodoxy. The same is true with the GOP (look no further than Trump).

When Clinton ran in 92, the Ds had been out of the White House for 12 years. He held MANY positions that had he run in 84 or 88 would have eliminated him early. He favored the death penalty, had a wretched environmental record, and any candidate who tried what he successfully pulled with Sister Souljah nowadays would be tagged as a shameless racist, particularly if that person was a Southerner. He got away with it because his party was desperate, and he was acceptable enough on most issues that the base could overlook those things (they didn't do this in 84 or 88). Obama was the same way. In fact, it was Hillary who went after him when he stated that part of the reason the GOP had ruled in the 80s and 90s was because they were seen as the party of ideas (e.g. the Contract with America). Hillary went after him for the shame of him actually saying the Republicans were perceived as doing something right.

Both stepped out of line with their parties to a point early on to reach out across BEFORE they got to the general election.

Bush did the same in 00, when he was actually in favor of an expensive drug prescription benefit and increased spending and oversight in education. (Folks - whether these candidates ever meant this or did it is NOT the point).


So to answer your question the long way.......I'm sure there's a candidate out there whose name I don't know who could have run in 2016 and beat Trump had he (or she) actually followed the plan prescribed above.
And this is gonna tick folks off but Trump "sort of" did this better than Hillary did. He basically assumed that the states that went for Romney and McCain would vote for him (if the margin was large) and then he set up camp in the same battleground states and held rallies the entire time. He virtually never left the Rust Belt, Florida, and North Carolina after getting nominated.

The biggest mistake of the campaign had nothing to do with her emails. It was going so far as to say HALF of the people who at the time were POLLING (they weren't yet voters) for his numbers were a "basket of deplorables." This would have been a disaster for any candidate, but when you're already perceived as an opportunist who will do anything to win, and you make this comment among folks where you thought there was NO WAY your remarks would be recorded so you let your hair down and say what you think of people.......it reinforced perceptions. (And this isn't just a Hillary thing. The PERCEPTION of Dan Quayle as a dummy is why his "potatoe" incident was so bad; the PERCEPTION of Gary Hart as a philanderer is what hurt him so bad as well).

It doesn't matter if the other person's supporters are (fill in the blank). The late Senator Mo Udall was running in 1976 for the Democratic nomination. Some folks tried to go after him because he would NOT denounce George Wallace, who was also running. Udall was clear there was no way he could run with Wallace on a ticket, but that's as far as he would go. When he was talking with reporters later, he made the point that Ed Muskie's attack on Wallace in 1972 had been stupid because he had alienated the Wallace voters. He summarized his idea with, "After all, if a candidate is eliminated, don't you want to be their SECOND choice?"

Obama and Bill Clinton completely understood this. Hillary's comment suggested she never did. (To be fair, I think she probably did, but her real personality got in the way). She wasn't as good at faking it as others (including Nixon).


I don’t see Sanders even getting close in an average field of 8-10 people.
I don't either - depending on the candidate.

Sanders was basically the voice for discontent in the Democratic Party primaries. The "we don't want Hillary" vote collapsed towards Sanders. I think had Biden run, it would have been his for the taking. The question of whether Biden could have beaten Trump, though, will remain unanswered. He would have been a better defender of the incumbent administration, but he also would have been tagged with all of their failures, too.

(Note: Bill Clinton basically admitting Obamacare was "the craziest thing ever" didn't help HRC, either. It helped Trump so much that one of their aides actually said, "Whose side is he on?").
 

GrayTide

Hall of Fame
Nov 15, 2005
18,810
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Greenbow, Alabama
is the linked website in the original post owned by a future right-wing domestic terrorist?

the specter of american communism for conservatives is quixotic windmill tilting. it'd own if socialism was more viable in this country. alas we've had a 60+ year dismantling of all the labor gains made over the first half of the 20th century. but this is the way of a strong-armed right authoritarian regime...their basically nonexistent enemies are always at the gates.
The quote in bold is the very best comment in this entire thread about Trump. Money and power the enemies of the truth. Thanks, rgw well said.
 

Crimson1967

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Nov 22, 2011
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Walter Cronkite? Jimmy Carter? All righty then. Really?
A nonagenarian who builds houses for poor people is one of the most destructive Americans of the last 80 years?

If he had just said “worst political figures”, that would have been fine. Biased, but his opinion.

By phrasing the way he did, he just lets everyone know he is a complete idiot.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

hollisx4

1st Team
Aug 29, 2005
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Columbiana, AL.
A nonagenarian who builds houses for poor people is one of the most destructive Americans of the last 80 years?
If he had just said “worst political figures”, that would have been fine. Biased, but his opinion.
By phrasing the way he did, he just lets everyone know he is a complete idiot.
Biased, but it's your opinion.

And I believe Carter is just about in the right place on the list.

http://ashbrook.org/programs/citizens/books/0895260905/
 

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