A Canticle for Leibowitz

[LTBF]

You know, I got the part about Cors (heart) and Mrs. Grales (Holy Grail), but I completely missed A to Z, Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. How could I have?

And I realize I misspoke about the Wandering Jew. He WAS in "Fiat Volutas Tua" as the old man the boy shouted at and called "Lazar." And I do realize the irony of my saying "shouted at as Lazar," in light of his previous statement that he was looking for "someone who shouted at me once." Then he says he was told to wait, and he has waited. But he doesn't expect Him to come. And He doesn't come, at least on Earth, does He? Not in the sense that Christians traditionally think of it, anyway.

I also remember him in the Abbey, revealing himself as "Lazarus." It was just that I missed the charming conversations he had in the two previous sections with Abbot Arkos and Dom Paulo.

And didn't Benjamin/Lazarus/Wandering Jew identify himself as a mender of tents, or tentmaker, in the scene with Dom Paulo?

Abbot Paulo says, "What does it say, Benjamin? Does it attract much trade up here?"

"Hah-what should it say? It says: Tents Mended Here."

Then the old hermit says, "As long as there are tents to be mended in Israel...."

As long as there are souls to be saved?

I see this as not two separate competing religions as they sometime seem to be, but as the OT and its completer, the NT, the fulfillment of the ancient prophecy. Although clearly Benjamin does not see it this way.

I will be doing some thinking about this book for quite some time. I will probably reread it, to look for all the things I missed the first time. It reminds me of a symbol-dense poem, so much stuff in so little space!

ROLL TIDE FOREVER!

 

[bobstod]

Thanks for the insights, Carolyn and tosker! I really enjoyed this book, and I think any book that causes you to think about moral questions and the existence of God is a worthwhile read.

I'm a little fuzzy about a couple of things. I agree that Rachael is a new kind of human being, free of original sin. What I don't quite get is her significance to the planet Earth. Who was Rachael in the Bible?

It seems to me that if Rachael is the reincarnation of mankind in an innocent form, then the departure of the memorabilia into space, and the probable destruction of whatever copies were left on earth, fortell the rebirth of Eden. Mankind without forbidden knowledge. Abbot Zerchi seems to predict this when he warns Joshua never to return, lest he find the Archangel guarding the East end of Eden. (But at that point, Rachael had not been 'reborn')(I am reminded of a James Dean movie, East of Eden, but I never saw it or read the book. Connection?)

Old mankind still survives, on other planets, and will be burdened everlastingly with guilty knowledge. The hope remains that they may learn to use knowledge without corrupting themselves, at some time in the eternal future.

What this means to the Wanderer, I can't quite figure out. At first, we see him as doomed to wander the earth until the reappearance of Jesus. Later, he calls himself Lazerus, raised from the dead by Jesus. Whether the birth of the New Mankind releases him from his doom I cannot tell.

Let's not leave this thread quite yet, please. There seems to be more we can glean, and we haven't heard from Bill yet.

------------------
ALABAMA: Tradition; Class; A name to respect in College Football

 

[LTBF]

I hate to admit that as a former Protestant my grip on the Bible, especially the OT, is so weak, but Rachel had a sister Leah.

Jacob, a son of Isaac, the some of Abraham and Sarah, wanted to marry one of them (can't remember which, but I think it was Rachel), and worked ten (?) years to earn her hand in marriage. Then her father told him that since Leah was the oldest, she had to be married first. Jacob married Leah, and then he worked ten years for the right to marry Rachel. With Rachel Jacob had sons, including Joseph (of Egypt fame), his favorite. (Genesis 25-50)

Jacob became the founder of the twelve tribes of Israel, and by extention, I would assume that Rachel was also a founder of some of those tribes. Joseph's younger brother, Benjamin, was also one of Jacob's favorites. If I remember correctly, the first 10 sons were the sons of Leah, and Joseph and Benjamin were the sons of Rachel.

Now, back to a question I asked earlier. Didn't it seem that all the IMPORTANT characters had Biblical names?

In the first book, "Fiat Homo", one of the first characters, maybe the very first, is Brother Francis. While I don't think this is a Biblical name, I immediately associated him with St. Francis of Assisi.

Now, I will have to depend on Ratotosk to tell me how that ties in, exactly, with ACFL, if it does.

AND, Ratatosk-WHO ARE YOU? Why can't I see all the things that you see?

Some ruminations: If Rachel was a co-founder, if you will, of some of the original 12 tribes of Israel, why cannot this Rachel be the foundress (is that too sexist?) of a NEW tribe of Israel. Who is left alive after the latest Holocaust? Where is old Benjamin? After all, he identified himself as a "Mender of Tents" for Israel.

Joshua, who led the Israelites into the Promised Land after Moses was not allowed to, has gone off to be the Shepherd of the flocks in space (a new Promised Land?).

And it was Mary who was conceived without Original Sin (the Immaculate Conception) according to Catholic theology. So is Rachel an new incarnation of Mary? When Rachel says "Live," she seems clearly to be be describing life in Resurrection, and not life on Earth, in the here and now, or there and then, in ACFL, since it is about the year 3900 AD.

Will Rachel survive (old Mrs. Grales has clearly died and left Rachel behind) and, with a new Virgin Birth, bring forth Jesus again, allowing old Benjamin to finally end his wandering?

Yes, I agree. Let's not let this thread die for a while. I want input from some other people, and more help from Ratatosk, as well as a chance to reread ACFL.

BTW, I pick up an issue of Time (or maybe it was Newsweek), in which the "Nun Project" was described, and some ways to forestall Alzheimer's Disease were discussed. Keeping your brain stretched and busy making new neural networks was one of the most important things on the list. Well, this thread is sure doing that, especially for me!

ROLL TIDE FOREVER!



[This message has been edited by LTBF (edited July 05, 2001).]

 

[Ratatosk]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by LTBF:


It reminds me of a symbol-dense poem, so much stuff in so little space!

</font>

LTBF,
I agree.I think ACOFL is symbol-rich with some symbols that deliberately overlap or fail to fit together easily. It's up to the reader to explore any inconsistencies to his or her own satisfaction. Not everything leads to a logical resolution.

I've been thinking about Rachel too. I'll repeat some of what you said and (hopefully) add a little more. I think we tend to basically agree on what we know and where we find ambiguity.

About Rachel
Rachel was the wife of Jacob (who became Israel). Jacob was in love with Rachel and agreed to serve her father for seven years to obtain her as his wife. Her father, Laban, accepted the proposal. However, at the end of the term of service Laban gave him as his wife, not Rachel, but her elder sister Leah. Jacob received Rachel to wife only on condition of serving seven years more.

After wrestling with God all night, Jacob was given a new name (Genesis 32:28) "And he said, Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel: for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed."

Jacob (Israel) and his wives Rachel and Leah became the immediate ancestors of the twelve tribes of Israel.

Then we find in Matthew 2:16-18:

(16) "Then Herod, when he saw that he was mocked of the wise men, was exceeding wroth, and sent forth, and slew all the children that were in Bethlehem, and in all the coasts thereof, from two years old and under, according to the time which he had diligently enquired of the wise men."

(17) "Then was fulfilled that which was spoken by Jeremy the prophet, saying,"

(18) "In Rama was there a voice heard, lamentation, and weeping, and great mourning, Rachel weeping for her children, and would not be comforted, because they are not."

In Matthew 2:18, Rachel refers to the entire Jewish people.

But when Joshua dreams of Rachel in ACFL, we see something different.

"But Joshua slept badly afterwards. In a dream he met Mrs. Grales again....And the Rachel face opened its eyes and tried to speak to Joshua, but he could hear her only faintly, and understand her not at all....

"...He paused and tried to read her lips..."

"I am the Immaculate Conception," came the dream whisper."

The Immaculate Conception is the belief (dogma in the Catholic Church) That Mary (Mother of Jesus Christ) was from the moment of her conception preserved immune from the stain of all original sin.

When Rachel refuses to be baptized, it is because, like Mary, she is free of original sin and does not need to be baptized.

In Rachel, Miller has combined Rachel, a Jewish symbol, and Mary, a Christian symbol. But he leaves it up to the reader to resolve the ambiguity. That makes the symbolism even more powerful.

ABANDON EVERY HOPE YE WHO ENTER HERE
This message was written on the sign Zerchi had the monks carrying in front of the Mercy Camp. This same message was inscribed above the gates to Hell in Dante's Inferno. The people entering the Mercy Camp were surrendering not only their earthly life but possibly their eternal life as well because they were committing suicide.

(I don't know what the position of the Catholic Church was when ACFL was written. I checked out the Catechism of the Catholic Church published April 1995. Here is what it said:
"Grave psycological disturbances, anguish, or grave fear of hardship, suffering, or torture can diminish the responsibility of the one committing suicide.
We should not despair of the eternal salvation of persons who have taken their own lives. By ways known to him alone, God can provide the opportunity for salutary repentance. The Church prays for persons who have taken their own lives.")

Brother Fingo's carving of Saint Leibowitz
This carving shows up in all three parts of ACFL. Everyone feels as though he has seen the face before but can't remember where.

In "Fiat Homo"
"The face is nearly finished, Francisco," said the woodcarver. "How do you like it now?"
"I know him!" Francis gasped, starring at the merry-but-sad wrinkled eyes, the hint of a wry smile at the corners of the mouth--somehow almost too familiar.
"You do? Who is it then?" wondered Fingo.
"It's--well, I'm not sure. I think I know him. But--"
Fingo laughed. "You're just recognizing your own sketches," he offered in explanation.
Francis was not so certain. Still, he could not quite place the face.
Hmm-hnn! the wry smile seemed to say.

(Reminds you of Benjamin/Israel/Lazarus/Wandering Jew in "Fiat Lux" doesn't it?)

In "Fiat Lux"
"Dom Paulo often marveled that the wooden Leibowitz had also proved resistant to several centuries of his predecessors--marveled, because of the saint's most peculiar smile. That little grin will ruin you someday, he warned the image."

In "Fiat Voluntas Tua"
"Forgive me I'm raving," he added, less to Joshua than to the old woodcarving of Saint Leibowitz that stood in one corner of the study....The saint wore a slightly satiric smile. Zerchi had rescued it from oblivion because of the smile.
"Did you see that old beggar in the refectory last night?" he asked irrelevantly, still peering curiously at the statue's smile.
"I didn't notice, Domne. Why?"
"Never mind, I guess I'm just imagining it."

As you said, this work is very symbol-rich, and we've just started to dig.



[This message has been edited by Ratatosk (edited July 06, 2001).]

 

[Bama-N-DC]

Ok. I have been apartment hunting in Dallas and forgot to take the book with me. I want to finish it this weekend before I comment. I am having a hard time putting into words my impressions of the book. It has become apparent that it was written by a bitter, and very frightened Catholic. Still, its written with an eye on a different type of Cathololcism than I am accustomed to. It is very much pre-Vatican II. Its the type of Catholocism my grandmother practiced.

I will finish the book this weekend and will have comments on Sunday or Monday. I have enjoyed this thread but haven't read everything in-depth because I want my opinion to be unvarnished.

As an aside, we did find a very nice apartment in Dallas. Its close to nightlife, and 3 miles from my office. After July 21st I will no longer be Bama-N-DC. I guess I will have to Change my name to Bama-N-BigD.

Bama-N-DC

William Lamey
President, GALABAMA DC

 

[LTBF]

I know that there is one line of thinking that says there is no such thing as a coincidence. It is just that at some times we are more open to the connectedness of all things, and at those times we see the connectedness and call it coincidence.

You all know that I have been reading Stalingrad, by Antony Beevor, a British writer. This book, published in 1998, draws extensively on records from the archives of the belligerents that were not available earlier. He has a chapter entitled "Christmas in the German Way" in which I found the following: A priest/doctor for the 16th Panzer Division named Kurt Reuber (a theologian and friend of Albert Schweitzer) used the back of a captured Russian map on which to draw what he called the "Fortress Madonna," and underneath this image were written the words "Light, Life, Love."

Here we have "Let there be Man (Life), Let there be Light (Light), and Thy Will Be Done (Love)." These words, "Light, Life, Love" are from St. John the Evangelist, and this drawing today is enshrined in the Kaiser Wilhelm memorial church in Berlin.

This to me was so eerie that it made my hair stand up on end. The comment is made in the book that Reuber pinned the picture up in his bunker, and everyone who entered halted and stared. Many began to cry. To Reuber's embarrassment, his bunker became something of a shrine.

Nothing in the book suggests that Reuber was a Nazi, and it is obvious that many of the officer corps were not Nazis, and in fact some hated Hitler and plotted ways to countermand his lunatic orders.

And here we have, in WWII, the closest to an actual Holocaust (in every sense of that word) that the world has ever seen (as far as we know). And it is further evident that the holocaust of WWII was the inspiration for Miller's work.

I know that a canticle is a song, but I went to the dictionary for more help, and found that specifically, it refers to a liturgical hymn with words from the Bible. It is easy to see how this fits in.

The dictionary further lists Canticles as being the same as Song of Solomon, which in the Douay Bible is known as Canticle of Canticles. Considering that Solomon was known for his wisdom, and considering the wisdom (and lack thereof) that is displayed in ACFL, I'm sure the irony was intentional.

For those of you who are not Catholic, the Douay Bible was (and still may be; I read whatever Bible I find convenient) the authorized version of the Bible for Catholics. I hesitate to call it the "Catholic Bible" lest I somehow suggest that there are different Bibles.

There ARE different versions. I still love the King James Bible. The language is sublime.

OK, I'm still thinking. When Stalingrad is finished, I'm going to reread ACFL, looking for things I didn't see before.

Remember way back when, before I started reading ACFL, I brought up the use of stones on Jewish graves as signs of honor (as well as to keep the bodies from being dug up in the desert). Didn't Benjamin place a stone of the grave of Brother Francis, after he buried his body to prevent his body from being devoured by scavengers? Mark of respect?

And how did Abbot Zerchi die? His lower body was encased in falling stones.

Was Mrs. Grales/Rachel partly the Holy Grail of legend, which is clearly based on Christianity, and partly the new Madonna, conceived without Original Sin? The legend passes away; the new Madonna survives.

Abbot Zerchi tries to teach Rachel the words of the Magnificat: "My soul doth magnify the Lord, and my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Savior; for He hath regarded the lowliness of His handmaid."

His handmaid was Mary. The Abbot is certain that she shared something with the Maiden who first had spoken them. So here again we have the double identity: Rachel/Mary, both Immaculate Conceptions, both born without Original Sin.

Verrry Interrrressstttting!

ROLL TIDE FOREVER!

[This message has been edited by LTBF (edited July 09, 2001).]

 

[LTBF]

bill, I look forward to your comments on ACFL. It was only Pope John XXIII and Vatican II that made it possible for me to BECOME a Catholic.

Not having been born one, but being married to one, I kept my distance for a long time. but the Good Shepherd made it possible for me to commit myself to the Church.

Reading a book about WWII and this one at the same time, and admiring the Polish Pope and thinking about St. Leibowitz, who must have been Polish, all at the same time, has been quite an experience.

And like MOST American Catholics, I know I am not a very good one. I am too independent, like most Americans are. I guess that would be called situational ethics, which the Church does not condone, but that is the way I am.

Some people have commented that Miller committed suicide, which would be just about the ultimate no-no for a Catholic, but I prefer to believe that God, and Christ, can look into our hearts and know what is there, and that that means more than Miller's suicide.

I guess what I am saying is that I am not your grandmother's Catholic. The church teaches that it is by faith alone, and not by works, that we are redeemed. I cannot help but think that works count, too. Else why would Christ have said, "Even as you do it unto the least of these, you do it also unto me." And yet I think that what makes me a Christian is my faith, and not my actions.

ROLL TIDE FOREVER!

 

[Bama-N-DC]

Well. I finished ACFL, and I am a bit disappointed. I expected to have a ton of comments or be changed in some way after I finished the book because of the way it started. I don't have a whole lot to add in the way of commentary.

The symbolism was very rich. I found the two overriding themes of the book to be hope and fear. Both have been touched on significantly in this thread already.

This book reveals a lot about the author. He seems to have been a man consumed by fear of the direction that society was going, almost to the point that he had lost hope. He even went so far as to explore the futility of hope with the ending of Fiat Homo.

At first I thought the book would have a lot more to do with exploring Catholocism, but it didn't. The Church was used as a canvass upon which he could paint his vision of the future. It provided the necessary cultural context in which he could explore. The author didn't have to explain the Chruch to the reader. It seems that he simply assumed that we would recognize the context and be able to understand the story within that context. I found the book to be an interesting read, but was overall not satisfied, perhaps because I expected too much.

Bama-N-DC

William Lamey
President, GALABAMA DC

 

[LTBF]

Miller did seem to be consumed with fear, and with anger. He was afraid of the knowledge, especially the nuclear potential, that man had uncovered, and angry, I guess, at what might be done with this knowledge.

I, on the other had, have thought for a very long time that this knowledge has priced global war out of existence, and so far that has clearly been true. Nobody has dared use the atomic bomb again, for fear of massive retaliation. I pray that continues to be the case. People like Osama bid Ladin and Saddam Hussein scare me, though, because they might be insane enough to try out a little experiment or two. And, the number of countries with nuclear weapons has grown so greatly.

Maybe my outlook, and that of Miller, explain two factors: hope (and faith, which might turn out after all to have been misapplied), and despair. It would seem to be Miller's despair that led to his suicide.

And I know what you mean about being disappointed. I was not disappointed by ACFL, but then I read it before the huge build-up. There are books and movies that have disappointed me simply because they were hyped to such an impossible level that NOTHING could live up to the advance billing!

I have not begun to reread ACFL. I guess I need to let it get cold before I do that. And I am working away on Shakespeare: The Invention of the Human, which has turned out to be much easier reading than I had expected it to be, and quite enjoyable.

What was your take on the way the book ended? Most of us seem to be having a little bit of difficulty understanding it. At first, I just threw up my hands and said, "Too much!" But when I reread it, and thought about it, I could begin to see where Miller was going (I think).

ROLL TIDE FOREVER!

 

[Ratatosk]

I thought ACFL was an excellent novel. A modern classic. It has never been out of print since it was first published.

I saw no anger in this book; doubt, fear for the future, of course. At the time the book was written there was serious concern that there might be a nuclear war. Children in some schools were being taught to hide under their desks and cover their eyes from the flash of a nuclear explosion. Those who remember that and the Cuban Missile Crisis will understand what it is like for the world to be teetering on the brink of war with new weapons they fear but don't fully understand. Despite the projections about what a nuclear war might be like, we will have to experience it to really know. (The next would include biological weapons as well--even more likely to cause long term genetic mutations.)

Miller treated the monks of the Leibowitz abbey as compassionate, thoughtful and caring men of God. He treated Benjamin (as a representative of Judaism) in the same fashion. There was no scorn or anger shown toward either religion. Benjamin and Dom Paulo were friends. The common background of Judaism and Christianity was pointed out as Dom Paulo and Benjamin talked (and important differences mentioned). When Dom Paulo left, he whispered a prayer for Benjamin: "Remember, Lord, all thy servants." That was Christian love and affection for a friend.

The rich symbolism and ambiguities are deliberate. They point to possibilities, not certainties. They ask questions without insisting on a polemical answer. The questions raise doubts instead of demanding answers. The very richness of the symbolism encourages the mind to follow its own path. The goal is intuitive insight. Just as Siddhartha understood that self-realization is achieved through experience, not through learning, Miller is trying to provide the symbolic experience that will lead the reader to his or her own self-realization. Each one may have different insights.

This is a well-written book. Through the dense symbolism, a great deal is packed into a relatively short space. The story flows smoothly. You could read the book as simply a story and still enjoy it.

A book like this had to end on a note of uncertainty because no one knows what such a catastrophe could truly bring. Who has a computer model that could project it? Who has the insight to know what would follow? There have been some terrible times in history (WWII, the black plague, the fall of the Roman Empire and the subsequent dark ages, the list goes on). The next fall of civilization could be worldwide and could be its worst.

Miller's love of Catholicism and the Latin language shows through. No matter what he did afterwards, this is a powerful, absorbing novel. It causes you to think. I will recommend it to all my friends (and to strangers as well).

 

[LTBF]

I never meant to imply that Miller was angry at religion. I thought that he treated both the Catholic faith and the Hebrew faith with great dignity and respect. And he clearly intended to show the continuity and co-dependence of the two.

I felt that he was angry with "the sons of man" for their handing of the end of WWII and the post-war period.

I think he clearly meant to evoke every earth-shattering event in the history of that orb that we know about: Noah's flood, the plagues, the Dark Ages, the Holocaust, Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

This is a remarkable book. I can see why, since 1959, it has never been out of print. I am so glad that I read it. I intend to reread it soon, this time with new eyes.

ROLL TIDE FOREVER!

 

[CapstoneStan]

One of the things I am struck by, and this seems to run thru some of our threads, is the coincidence that he chose the Catholic church to be the repository of all knowledge. This was the premise for How the Irish Saved Civilization. Some ideas seem destined to return again and again---one in fictionalized form and the other in nonfiction form. I wonder if Miller may have even inspired Irish. However, Miller's repository would Mark the second time around for the Catholic salvation of civilization.

 

[LTBF]

I think you are on the right track, Stan, but I think it is the truth behind Irish that may have inspired Miller. Not the book, but the idea of the Irish monasteries, since the book came much later than ACFL.

ROLL TIDE FOREVER!

 

[Ratatosk]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by LTBF:

I felt that he was angry with "the sons of man" for their handing of the end of WWII and the post-war period.

</font>

From that point of view I think you are right.

When Abbot Zerchi (who represents Miller's point of view) argues with Dr. Cors he says "The very existence of the Radiation Disaster Act, and like laws in other countries, is the plainest possible evidence that governments were fully aware of the consequences of another war, but instead of trying to make the crime impossible, they tried to provide in advance for the consequences of the crime."

Then when Cors leaves: "You heard him say it? 'Pain's the only evil I know about'...And that society is the only thing which determines whether an act is wrong or not?...Dearest God, how did those two heresies get back into the world after all this time?" It is evident that Zerchi ( Miller) is becoming angry.

And after Zerchi loses the woman and her daughter to the Green Star Mercy Camp he punches Dr. Cors in the face.

I have to agree; this shows anger toward the governments who refuse to "make the crime impossible."


(If I was too pushy in defending ACFL, I apologize. I didn't mean to be rude.)

 

[CapstoneStan]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by LTBF:
I think you are on the right track, Stan, but I think it is the truth behind Irish that may have inspired Miller. Not the book, but the idea of the Irish monasteries, since the book came much later than ACFL.

ROLL TIDE FOREVER!</font>

I had it right. I suggested that Miller may have been the inspiration for Irish. So I did have the chronological order correct. Thanks for the thoughts. You are definitely one of my favorite posters.

 

[bobstod]

Very thoughty posts, LTBF. We can count on you for your wonderful heart, as well as your ability to share your thoughts so well.

The afterglow of this book is still with me. I think I appreciate it more now than I did when I had just finished it. I think I will have to have my own copy, for rereading, and for passage down to my children.

------------------
ALABAMA: Tradition; Class; A name to respect in College Football

 

[LTBF]

Wasn't ACFL a wonderful book? All the books we have read have been wonderful. And I am
looking forward to having Plato's thoughts on these books, but we don't need him for a teacher (although he will be a welcome one), since we have done so wonderfully well teaching each other, and we have a master teacher in Ratatosk!

And Ratatosk, I never thought you were rude. You cannot know how much I have appreciated your comments. I'm just jealous because I cannot see what you see.

The idea of coincidence has gotten into my head, and I cannot get rid of it. I see these "coincidences" everywhere now, and I think that they aren't coincidences, but interrelatedness that I didn't see before.

How sad that other people have not joined us for these discussions. On second thought, it is probably just as well that some of them don't come over here. They would be sure that we are headed straight for hell!

ROLL TIDE FOREVER!

 

[bobstod]

Well, LTBF, certain ones of them believe that anyway!! But they probably wouldn't have much to add to our discussions.

I understand what you mean, though. This has been such a positive experience for me, that I wish more people could share it. I know, even though we have never met, that you feel the same way: because you have such an open and caring heart.

Still, I don't know how I could feel more satisfied with The Bookends Board's progress and performance so far. The cooperation, and the thoughtful analysis have been all anyone could ask, and I think the people who post here regularly feel much the same way.

I expect things will slow down some when the season begins, but I'm not concerned about it. I'll be one of those who will be more focused on Alabama Football than books during those months. I won't stop reading books, though! I never do that.

------------------
ALABAMA: Tradition; Class; A name to respect in College Football

 

[Ratatosk]

Still Relevant

I recently dug out my copy of ACFL and thought I would read it again. I haven't visited here in a while but I recalled the discussions we had about ACFL and decided to reread them.

The discussions have held up well over time and I think ACFL holds up well. The danger that modern civilization could collapse is still present. ACFL is as relevant today as when it was written.

 

[LTBF]

I haven't been on this board for ages, and when I decided to look at Bookends, I was surprised to see a relatively new post by Ratatosk bringing this thread back to the top. I had intended to reread ACFL, but didn't. Now I am going to. Folks out in Internet land, if you want to read a challenging books and restart a challenging discussion, just read this book and join in!

ROLL TIDE FOREVER!