the SEC doesn’t need Florida State or clempson to get any better or those tv markets. pretty sure they already have Florida and South Carolina tv people
ACC and PAC 12 Demise seems close (FSU officially stating intentions to fight ACC Grant of Rights… Clemson sues the ACC)
- Thread starter 81usaf92
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I have come to view FSU much differently than I view Clemson for a couple of reasons. One was posted on the previous page. It showed that FSU when struggling in football still drew more viewers than when Clemson dominated in football. This shows the disparity in value there, a struggling FSU is worth about as much as a dominant Clemson, and does anyone see Clemson dominating in the SEC?
So yeah, Clemson is basically another South Carolina but FSU is different. Having said that, I see them as still far less valuable (to the SEC at least) than North Carolina or Notre Dame for example, probably less valuable than Virginia as well due to redundancy but still if I'm making a top 4 of potential additions to the SEC, it's kind of hard not to include FSU.
Not only that, but FSU is a strong enough addition that the concern is the Big 10 might snatch them up (although that doesn't seem to be their current focus). FSU in the Big 10 is a concern just because the Big 10 could kind of encircle the SEC and be a national power, while the SEC is stuck being a regional power. So, adding FSU makes sense as kind of a defensive move.
If for instance you add FSU and North Carolina to the SEC I'd be extremely happy. If you just add Clemson, and FSU, or something redundant in just about every way like Clemson, FSU, VT, and Miami also terrible in my opinion. The SEC needs to expand their footprint, but FSU is probably the most valuable additions in terms of adding a redundant program.
I was listening to Finebaum yesterday and someone asked about Notre Dame joining the BIG 10 and he made a comment that basically said he doesn't know if they want to because they have had a chance for the last 30 or 40 years and has repeatedly chosen not to. He also said that he thinks that Notre Dame would prefer the SEC over the BIG 10. The last part surprised me and I don't know how I would feel if they joined the SEC. It would just be a weird experience. To me Oklahoma and Texas makes sense. Also, FSU, Clemson does too and even North Carolina and Virginia to a certain extent, but I just can't imagine an SEC with Notre Dame in it.
I'm really not sure why Notre Dame would prefer the SEC, perhaps because it would give them more fertile recruiting ground, but in terms of rivalries, geography, and just general fit, it seems like Notre Dame would prefer the Big 10.
Having said that, I certainly hope the SEC can get over any ideas about certain types of schools belonging more just because they are more like schools the SEC already has. That's a path to failure in my opinion and why I think something that a lot of people mentioned like FSU, VT, Miami and Clemson would spell disaster. I mean what does that really do for the SEC? They move into one more state while having to pay four more schools? It's a "fit" but a fit that does what exactly?
So, if you can somehow entice a program like Notre Dame, then it's a huge win in the war against the Big 10. I guess it's kind of like fighting against the Germans alongside the Russians, you don't have to like the Russians to want them on your side.
I'm just not sure how you convince Notre Dame to join you, the only way I see that as possibly working is if the SEC is making such a strong additions and such a strong move that Notre Dame realizes it's the right side to join. For instance if the SEC is going to add North Carolina, Virginia, and FSU, then may be Notre Dame goes hey wait, these guys might be onto something...
I really see Notre Dame as being the last piece to fall and they can hang in there for a while if they want. Current trajectory is for there to be four power conferences, and Notre Dame has the potential to be a dominant force in the third strongest conference. They might prefer that over being third of fourth most important in the SEC or Big 10.
Greed is gonna kill the golden goose.
I agree that about not focusing on what a "fit" and the appeal that Notre Dame, North Carolina, and Virginia has to the SEC, I just would have never imagined Notre Dame joining the SEC. I could see why they would want to. Joining the SEC gives them games in Louisiana, Texas, Georgia, Florida, and so on. It would greatly improve them in comparrison to the BIG 10 with games in Illinois, Iowa, Minnesota, Nebraska, and New Jersey. Sure they would have Ohio, California, and Michigan, but they would probably be better off, recruiting wise in the SEC than the BIG 10. They could keep the OOC games against Stanford and USC or at least one of them to keep a connection in California and gain the SEC recruiting area.
Goose is already cooked and eaten. Nothing left but leftovers.
I wonder if the B1G is trying to squeeze the SEC out, and build their own league......far fetched, I know...
But, what if they took the relevant teams across the country from the ACC, PAC and Big 12....push the rest into G5 status....
Score each a MEGA football deal, and either "force" the SEC to join OR squeeze them out.
To me, there is something bigger than just expansion happening in the B1G...
At some point -- you have 32+ teams -- and then what?
Non-football people playing in the football playbox --
But, what if they took the relevant teams across the country from the ACC, PAC and Big 12....push the rest into G5 status....
Score each a MEGA football deal, and either "force" the SEC to join OR squeeze them out.
To me, there is something bigger than just expansion happening in the B1G...
At some point -- you have 32+ teams -- and then what?
Non-football people playing in the football playbox --
Maybe. But this fees like a politician answer. Don't show your hand too early kind of thing.
It doesn't work that way, tho - USC fans will watch USC but may or may not watch Clempson. Same with UF/FSU/MIAMI, and both FSU And Clempson have large fanbases.
They would be big pickups, but Sankey thinks about this every day, not just occasionally like me.
I just don't want clempson in the SEC. Don’t want a team that will beat us then lose to Miss State or Vandy the next week. We already have texas 8&4 for that.
Plus the TV markets are not the same as the were 20 and 30 years ago. Most games are on ESPN or the SEC Network and does not have to look at if the local market is covered. It is now about the brand that the team is bringing in.
And that's my point. People say not to take FSU and Clemson because the SEC is already in Florida and South Carolina. It doesn't matter if they add new states like it would have in the past, all that matters now is if they are going to draw viewership to ESPN or the SEC Network. Those channels can be accessed from anywhere in the world and they are trying to draw in large fanbases instead of large populaton areas. If they were going for population areas they might as well target Houston, Memphis, and those type of schools. Also, the focus is to much on just football and not what a school can offer in other sports.
For example, A school like Duke might not attract viewers in football, but you put them on those networks during basketball season and they draw and ESPN has to figure out how to get viewers from January until September when Football is not on and I think dismissing some of these schools as targets just because of football is short sighted.
If you are going to mention ESPN and the SEC Network it's important to point out that the rates are higher for the SEC Network if there is an SEC program within the state.
The difference is around $12 per year per subscriber! So we're talking millions of dollars if for instance you go into North Carolina instead of a state you are already in like South Carolina.
Not only that, but really take a look at that chart. That's football ratings by the way, not sure why they don't specify but I've seen those numbers before and they are clearly not basketball numbers. But let's ignore that and just focus on Clemson here.
Those are numbers based on Clemson's recent success. Not that long ago Clemson wasn't even the most popular football program in their state! So, once you go past Clemson what you see is really fairly even distribution, 3-12 is only separated by half a million, that's not that much. The only reason Clemson is where they are is because of their recent dominance, (they won 8 conference championships over that span of time).
In other words, when Clemson falls back to earth, which they have already begun doing, they are going to be in the rest of the pack of ACC schools. In which case they should be judged not based on recent success they can not sustain in the SEC, but on other factors.
The real story about those ratings is not Clemson, who no way on earth would sustain success anything like that in the SEC, but FSU who had better ratings with far less success. You want a program like that, last time we were talking a lot of people want VT for the same reasons they want Clemson now. Well, VT has fallen back to earth as I said they would...
Edit:
I will add one thing though, the networks are not necessarily acting in the best interest of the conferences here. So, for instance ESPN might push for the SEC to add Clemson because at the moment Clemson is still a big brand. By the time Clemson isn't, it would be nearing the end of their deal with the SEC anyway, so why do they care if it damages the SEC long-term or not?
So, what is best for the SEC over a long period of time and what gets them the most money over a short period of time are not necessarily the same thing. Networks have no incentive to care past the length of the current deal.
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I agree with possibly taking FSU, but I am not sure that UVA and UNC will want to join the SEC. Clemson, Va Tech, NC State, Miami, Ga Tech, Boston College, Syracuse, Duke, Pitt, Ga Tech, and Wake right now are all on the outside looking in.
I do believe that FSU has been more competitive nationally with Basketball, Womens Soccer and Volleyball than Football over the past 5 to 10 years. I think that would actually be a draw for the ESPN.
Both Bama and FSU are ranked in the top 20 of Popular Sports teams. Bama 13 and FSU 19.
The most popular college sports teams in America | Sport | YouGov Ratings
The most popular college sports teams in America according to YouGov Ratings. Popularity is based on millions of responses from the American public and YouGov's innovative survey methodology.
today.yougov.com
FSU and Clemson want out ( Clemson just not publicly saying like FSU) if the SEC does not grab both of them then the Big will ,they can't talk all about Oregon and Washington but they would take FSU, Clemson in a heartbeat, I don't care for it but it's the way sports is heading
They are letting FSU stir the pot while they sit back and see what happens.
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