ACC and PAC 12 Demise seems close (FSU officially stating intentions to fight ACC Grant of Rights… Clemson sues the ACC)

[TideEngineer08]

VT is a much better football draw than UVA...probably by a 2:1 or greater margin. VT fans are far more dedicated to football than UVA fans. Plus, UVA is much more closely aligned with the BIG than SEC in academic terms (whether that's a fair perception or not). As a native Virginian (who was also thrice-rejected by UVA) I can't see UVA ever joining the SEC, and certainly not unless UVA and VT come in as a package deal. UVA brings nothing to the table football-wise...on the field or in terms of viewership.

I agree Virginia does not fit the SEC culture at all but they are the more prestigious brand. But so much of that kind of stuff is utterly useless in real life, and is becoming worth less and less.

I don't really know where the SEC goes from here though. Nothing from the PAC 12 makes any sense. That's all for the Big Ten or Big 12 to sort out.

So our only expansion options left are the ACC and Notre Dame.

I don't see how the SEC "wins" in this game if the Big Ten is not finished after consuming the powers of the PAC 12. If the Big Ten pursues anything out of the ACC, it is going to start with Virginia and North Carolina. I could also see them going after Georgia Tech and Miami (both AAU schools and gets them into Georgia and Florida). I think the SEC would be in the drivers seat for Florida State and Clemson but what have we really gained there?

 

[cjhadley]

This has to lower the value of the PAC 12 even more.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1687503777392205824

 

[davefrat]

If UVA doesn't, neither does VT.

Just look at the ratings from 14-22 posted earlier. VT was at 1.92 million, Virginia was at 1.68. That's a negligible difference, especially if you consider Virginia is better at pretty much everything else (I think VT won the bass fishing championship).

The problem is the only thing VT is relatively good at is football, meaning they have nothing extra to offer the SEC. They'll get dominated in football, their attendance will continue to go down (it has been) and then what? They are just definitively worse, it's not like their athletic department can overall compete with Virginia. Virginia will still be Virginia in the SEC, VT will just be a worse version of what they are now, which already isn't that great.

Having said that, I do agree that Virginia probably prefers the Big 10, but make no mistake. If the Big 10 ends up with Notre Dame, North Carolina, Virginia and well whoever else, the SEC loses...

Another issue with UVA is that they are heavily into non-revenue sports like soccer and lacrosse.

UVA looks down their nose at VT as a bunch of hillbillies...they think of the SEC as a third-world country.

 

[davefrat]

I agree Virginia does not fit the SEC culture at all but they are the more prestigious brand. But so much of that kind of stuff is utterly useless in real life, and is becoming worth less and less.

I don't really know where the SEC goes from here though. Nothing from the PAC 12 makes any sense. That's all for the Big Ten or Big 12 to sort out.

So our only expansion options left are the ACC and Notre Dame.

I don't see how the SEC "wins" in this game if the Big Ten is not finished after consuming the powers of the PAC 12. If the Big Ten pursues anything out of the ACC, it is going to start with Virginia and North Carolina. I could also see them going after Georgia Tech and Miami (both AAU schools and gets them into Georgia and Florida). I think the SEC would be in the drivers seat for Florida State and Clemson but what have we really gained there?

ND will never join the SEC, for much the same reasons UVA won't.

 

[RollTide_HTTR]

Feels like the Pac 12 is really dead. Who do they even have left?

 

[81usaf92]

VT is a much better football draw than UVA...probably by a 2:1 or greater margin. VT fans are far more dedicated to football than UVA fans. Plus, UVA is much more closely aligned with the BIG than SEC in academic terms (whether that's a fair perception or not). As a native Virginian (who was also thrice-rejected by UVA) I can't see UVA ever joining the SEC, and certainly not unless UVA and VT come in as a package deal. UVA brings nothing to the table football-wise...on the field or in terms of viewership.

Va Tech brings absolutely nothing to anyone. Like I said earlier… they are like Okie Lite but worse. Seriously… what do they bring besides a football legacy that seems more like a fart in the wind for a decade. When Alabama lost to them in 98 it probably began their program… ironically when Alabama beat them in 09 it really ended their program. Yeah you talk about sandman on Thursday night but really what else?

UVA brings a lot more as a university, sports department, and marketing.

 

[Joefus]

If the big 10 takes wash and Oregon and maybe later Stanford AND the acc implodes I could see nd joining the big 12 with Miami. That would be a fun conference to watch.

That being said I think the fsu stuff is all posturing. I think the acc stays together.

 

[Joefus]

Va Tech brings absolutely nothing to anyone. Like I said earlier… they are like Okie Lite but worse. Seriously… what do they bring besides a football legacy that seems more like a fart in the wind for a decade. When Alabama lost to them in 98 it probably began their program… ironically when Alabama beat them in 09 it really ended their program. Yeah you talk about sandman on Thursday night but really what else?

UVA brings a lot more as a university, sports department, and marketing.

As I understand it the only reason they are in the acc is bc the state legislature made uva take vt with them? Beamer and the move to the acc are the only reason most people know who they are

 

[DzynKingRTR]

The PAC 12
The PAC 10
The PAC 8
By the time we are done, they will be the PAC 3 or 4

 

[KrAzY3]

This has to lower the value of the PAC 12 even more.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1687503777392205824

They are done if this goes through.

Arizona seems like a done deal to, that leaves the Pac-12 with only six and going down fast.

Most likely next move is Arizona St. and Utah to the Big 12, though there's an interesting wrinkle there. Apparently the Big 12 only has 4 of those guaranteed fully money slots, two are used up on Arizona and Colorado but that begs the question of whether or not the best use of the other two would be Arizona St. and Utah.

Also, Cal and Stanford have no apparent destination at the moment. This is surprising because Stanford in particular should be in the upper half of Pac-12 schools. One could argue that the Big 12 would be better off leaving Utah at the alter and go for Stanford instead... that is if the Big 10 isn't looking hard at them, which does not appear to be the case at the moment.

Anyway as to the general big picture stuff. The SEC has two things going for them at the moment. They have better regional cohesion (which reduces travel time/costs for instance) and better recruiting territory.

Remember, not that long ago the idea of Texas joining the SEC was laughable, so if the SEC can position themselves correctly and make the right play it should be possible to entice the top schools. Only ineptitude on the part of the SEC even allowed the Big 10 to be in a better financial situation in the first place, the SEC just needs to stop screwing up.

If for instance they can make a move that involves FSU, North Carolina, Virginia, and Notre Dame, the package deal would be part of what might entice the others. They need to show that they're in the best position moving forward, and if this Big 10 west coast thing doesn't work out great (reportedly adding up to 10 million in travel costs), then that might be the opening they need.

Heck, the grant of rights and ESPN deal could also provide the opening, presumably ESPN is more likely to bend if they are going to a conference they also have a deal with. So this is all about the SEC playing things right, and if they don't, they'll lose to the Big 10 in such a way that they might be permanently second best.

 

[crimsonaudio]

I suspect the B1G would LOVE to add Stanford and Cal - both are very highly rated academic institutions, which appeals to the B1G's quest for any sort of superiority they can find as it's not happening on the field.

 

[GrayTide]

ND will never join the SEC, for much the same reasons UVA won't.

I think this is spot on. Getting UVA is akin to adding another Vanderbilt. I think the SEC's best hope would be to pickup UNC, NC State and FSU.

 

[Ratal]

I suspect the B1G would LOVE to add Stanford and Cal - both are very highly rated academic institutions, which appeals to the B1G's quest for any sort of superiority they can find as it's not happening on the field.

Another major positive is scheduling. Having USC and UCLA makes scheduling of sports terrible. That would be a lot of cross country flying for teams. Adding more teams on the west coast allows the schedule to lessen that burden.

 

[KrAzY3]

I suspect the B1G would LOVE to add Stanford and Cal - both are very highly rated academic institutions, which appeals to the B1G's quest for any sort of superiority they can find as it's not happening on the field.

Some reports had both those being included from the start, but some coming out now specify Stanford.

There's an interesting dynamic to this move as it would of course make travel easier and reduce those costs, but we are now talking about them adding 6 teams from the Pac-12 that was already struggling and perhaps 4 in the same state. Those four additions combined don't really do enough to really pay their way in the Big 10, so we'll see how that goes.

It's certainly an interesting situation...

 

[davefrat]

Va Tech brings absolutely nothing to anyone. Like I said earlier… they are like Okie Lite but worse. Seriously… what do they bring besides a football legacy that seems more like a fart in the wind for a decade. When Alabama lost to them in 98 it probably began their program… ironically when Alabama beat them in 09 it really ended their program. Yeah you talk about sandman on Thursday night but really what else?

UVA brings a lot more as a university, sports department, and marketing.

UVA brings even less in terms of football...and that's all this conference realignment stuff is about.

It's all about pigskin money.

I'm not saying I want either or that the SEC needs either of them, but UVA is not going to join the SEC unless they are forced to by the legislature...and that's not happening.

 

[davefrat]

I think this is spot on. Getting UVA is akin to adding another Vanderbilt. I think the SEC's best hope would be to pickup UNC, NC State and FSU.

And Clemson.

 

[CoolBreeze]

On the one hand, hats off to the big for going out and cherry picking the west coast. That will drastically improve their weekend product of games pitting the likes of osu, um and psu with usc and the ducks. On the other hand, it just seems like a logistical nightmare crisscrossing the country every weekend for all of these schools. Talk about practice schedules taking a hit. I just see the SEC as far superior in most ways without expanding beyond the froghorns and ou. Fla st is an intriguing expansion discussion as is clemson or tarheels (domers will not come guaranteed). But the SEC plus the two coming next year are going to provide some blockbuster games every weekend from here to eternity. Just do not see the need for the SEC to expand.

 

[KrAzY3]

UVA brings even less in terms of football...and that's all this conference realignment stuff is about.

It's all about pigskin money.

It's all about money, there just happens to be more pigskin money, but basketball money is green to and will factor in when TV deals are being made and revenue is being distributed.

For instance, when 3.7 million people tuned in to watch Virginia play a basketball game, do you think that was worth dramatically less than 3 million watching Clemson play a football game?

To understand some of the underlying factors here is to contemplate this. How did the Big 10 manage to add Rutgers and Maryland and still increase their value in such a way that they signed a better TV deal than the SEC despite less success?

Was it the value of Rutgers and Maryland's football program? Certainly not, so what exactly was the value. Well, 9 million in the state of New Jersey, 6 million in Maryland, that helped... and as importantly neither of those teams disrupted the true football powers in the conference, Ohio State, Penn State and Michigan. They managed to add eyeballs without hurting their top brands, hence they got richer.

Someone has to lose, a conference can benefit greatly from strategically picking who those losers will be. In this case they chose the marquee programs in two good sized states and in doing so they increased their value, despite not meeting the criteria of just adding "pigskin money".

 

[cjhadley]

Andy Staples said on the radio that Stanford and Cal doesn’t had any value to the BIG 10 and he doesn’t see them getting an invite. He said the MWC should merge with the PAC to and become the PAC 14 since it has a better name brand than the MWC. He was assuming that Arizona, Arizona St, and Utah move to the Big 12 and Stanford, Cal, Washington St, and Oregon St are the only team’s remaining.

He also said he could see ESPN working out a deal with theSEC and ACC moving FSU and Clemson to the SEC in order to stabilize the ACC in order to stop the BIG 10 from taking any teams from the ACC.

I didn’t understand if he was saying to move the money that th why would have made in the ACC to the SEC and then I guess put some with it to keep the SEC schools at the same level or if he was saying to increase the SEC contract and leave the ACC contract the same which would increase the amount per school for the remaining ACC schools.

 

[TideEngineer08]

The ACC is in the same boat as the PAC 12. Or I should say, their boat is leaking as well, just not at the rate the PAC 12's was.

Florida State, Clemson, Miami, and perhaps North Carolina are not content to watch Big Ten and SEC schools make 100 million a year while they are making 40 or whatever it is. They have their rivalries within their league, but they are also competing heavily with SEC and Big Ten powers in recruiting. They literally cannot afford to be lapped every single year in revenue.

There is no saving that. Because no network is going to pay them SEC/Big Ten money because they are just nostalgic about regionality.

I think the ACC could lose 4 schools or so and survive. It's just that the PAC 12 could not.