Additional thought on defending the HUNH...

[TIDE-HSV]

What I noticed tonight was AU in a "huddle" for almost ten seconds and then spinning around into a new formation with only a few seconds before the clock ran out and snapping the ball within two seconds of breaking huddle. Earlier, I had thought that allowing only 6-8 seconds between snaps would balance the game again, but it obviously won't. A new rule needs to apply to how many seconds from huddle to snap. Even if the defense is not allowed to sub, it at least deserves the time to get set (something HUNH teams are not doing now)...

 

[RWBTide]

I didn't catch the 1st half of the game, but in the 2nd Florida didn't seem to have too much trouble coping with the HUNH.

Maybe specific to Auburn, but putting the brakes on the central running game certainly seems like the way to go. It asks a lot of the corners, but if they can win their one on ones you're more than half way there.

 

[cuda.1973]

Might give the refs more time to get set, and hopefully do their job more effectively. Like calling holding. And horse collars. And paying attention with the play breaks down, and mayhem ensues.

 

[hacksaw830]

You got that right! I saw old Guss yelling at the refs within seconds of the ball carrier hitting the ground the refs couldn't even get set before the snap, its like he wanted the damn ball carrier to get up off the ground and just take off with it again, might as well just not even spot the ball or allow the chains to get set. This kind of harry hs crap is already stale as far as Im concerned but this crap will go the way of the wing T, wishbone, fun and gun, run and shoot and so on. Another offense will pop up and it will be near impossible to stop for about 6 or 7 years. Its evolution and Ill be glad when this crap is extinct, there is not enough hard hitting grind it out football just basketball on grass running through open lanes from misdirection, it truly is like watching a pee wee football game, misdirection and trick plays damn near every play. I will be glad when its DONE! And it will be done.

Might give the refs more time to get set, and hopefully do their job more effectively. Like calling holding. And horse collars. And paying attention with the play breaks down, and mayhem ensues.

 

[Nolan]

I was really impressed with the studs on FSU's DL. The speed/size was incredible. That's what I think we will be trending to with Hand, Allen, Pettway, etc.

 

[Hoot30]

You got that right! I saw old Guss yelling at the refs within seconds of the ball carrier hitting the ground the refs couldn't even get set before the snap, its like he wanted the damn ball carrier to get up off the ground and just take off with it again, might as well just not even spot the ball or allow the chains to get set. This kind of harry hs crap is already stale as far as Im concerned but this crap will go the way of the wing T, wishbone, fun and gun, run and shoot and so on. Another offense will pop up and it will be near impossible to stop for about 6 or 7 years. Its evolution and Ill be glad when this crap is extinct, there is not enough hard hitting grind it out football just basketball on grass running through open lanes from misdirection, it truly is like watching a pee wee football game, misdirection and trick plays damn near every play. I will be glad when its DONE! And it will be done.

That's almost like rugby. The offense can p/u the ball and go with it right after a tackle, even while the defenders and the former ball carrier are still on the ground. I guess he wants to get football back to its roots :biggrin:.

 

[Relayer]

I was thinking ths same, Earl. Surely, they have to make some rule adjustments. It has also puzzledme as to why the referees feel that THEY have to go into "hurry-up", also. It gets them on their heels as much as it does the defense, and inhibits their ability to do their job.

In the Bama v Barn game, Marshall repeatedly shook his fist and seemed to be berating the officials when they didn't place the ball in play instantly after each play. I was a little surprised the refs didn't tell him to cool it.

 

[Hoot30]

I was thinking ths same, Earl. Surely, they have to make some rule adjustments. It has also puzzledme as to why the referees feel that THEY have to go into "hurry-up", also. It gets them on their heels as much as it does the defense, and inhibits their ability to do their job.

In the Bama v Barn game, Marshall repeatedly shook his fist and seemed to be berating the officials when they didn't place the ball in play instantly after each play. I was a little surprised the refs didn't tell him to cool it.

It makes me wonder whether the supervisor of officials for each conference are directing their refs to hurry-up and spot the ball for the teams that run the HUNH. Back when I was officiating high school in Alabama, us old-farts would have told the HUNH teams to stifle it...we aren't going to hurry for you if we don't have to hurry for the other team. It's inherently not fair, IMO.

 

[tidefan39817]

I can't really say I have a problem with the HUNH offenses. I mean it's not like it is really innovative. the Cincinnati Bengals used it a few years in the late 80's, the Buffalo Bills ruled the AFC for years with it, but never won the big one.

now, I'm not saying "stop crying" or anything. I'm just saying that right now it is the flavor the month offense. FSU showed a way to beat it last night and that was the fact that they played solid man to man D, got penetration with the D line and kept a sustained drive on offense.

 

[AlistarWills]

I was thinking ths same, Earl. Surely, they have to make some rule adjustments. It has also puzzledme as to why the referees feel that THEY have to go into "hurry-up", also. It gets them on their heels as much as it does the defense, and inhibits their ability to do their job.

In the Bama v Barn game, Marshall repeatedly shook his fist and seemed to be berating the officials when they didn't place the ball in play instantly after each play. I was a little surprised the refs didn't tell him to cool it.

I'm gonna say I think it's because if the refs don't spot it quickly then they appear to be favoring the defensive team. They spot it quickly so they don't get accused of helping one team over another, when that's exactly what they do when they spot it quickly for the offense.

 

[tidefan39817]

I'm gonna say I think it's because if the refs don't spot it quickly then they appear to be favoring the defensive team. They spot it quickly so they don't get accused of helping one team over another, when that's exactly what they do when they spot it quickly for the offense.

what if they fake a cramp??? the refs that is...i can't wait to see the reaction on ole gussy boy's face if one of the officials get a cramp...

 

[AlistarWills]

What I noticed tonight was AU in a "huddle" for almost ten seconds and then spinning around into a new formation with only a few seconds before the clock ran out and snapping the ball within two seconds of breaking huddle. Earlier, I had thought that allowing only 6-8 seconds between snaps would balance the game again, but it obviously won't. A new rule needs to apply to how many seconds from huddle to snap. Even if the defense is not allowed to sub, it at least deserves the time to get set (something HUNH teams are not doing now)...

I think the hurry to the line allows for them to run some formations and things that aren't quite above board. If the refs don't have time to check things, what's to stop an offensive team from lining up illegally? Now I have no proof of this, but if I huddle near the line, basically break the huddle and am into a stance quickly hold for 1 second and snap the ball, how's the ref going to check things. They basically have about 2 seconds to figure things out.

 

[TIDE-HSV]

I didn't catch the 1st half of the game, but in the 2nd Florida didn't seem to have too much trouble coping with the HUNH.

Maybe specific to Auburn, but putting the brakes on the central running game certainly seems like the way to go. It asks a lot of the corners, but if they can win their one on ones you're more than half way there.

It really is pretty specific to Auburn. There are a lot of teams running the read option with the HUNH, but none I've seen attack the middle quite as consistently as AU. The HUNH is really not an offense, it's a tactic. It's become melded in the public mind with the read option because the two are usually combined. The HUNH confers much more of an advantage to the read option, with its misdirection, than it would to a conventional option. And, you're correct about clogging the middle and walking up safeties putting the corners on an island. When we did that, Our two starting corners, one a freshman and the other with lingering turf toe (don't they all linger) couldn't stand up to the pressure...

 

[bamacon]

It really is pretty specific to Auburn. There are a lot of teams running the read option with the HUNH, but none I've seen attack the middle quite as consistently as AU. The HUNH is really not an offense, it's a tactic. It's become melded in the public mind with the read option because the two are usually combined. The HUNH confers much more of an advantage to the read option, with its misdirection, than it would to a conventional option. And, you're correct about clogging the middle and walking up safeties putting the corners on an island. When we did that, Our two starting corners, one a freshman and the other with lingering turf toe (don't they all linger) couldn't stand up to the pressure...

To be fair FSU's corners got lost a LOT. Luckily for them NM simply can't see the whole field yet. He had a lot of wide open receivers all night. A true pocket passer would have feasted. GMs offense really passes a lot more. It is why I think JJ or SW will be the QB for AU next year.

 

[bamanix]

what i took away as well, is finally, a team with talent played a 5 man def line, and forced auburn out of their interior attack more. especially when jernigan was in there and attackin them. he tired in the 4th quarter. this enabled the corners to attack the wide runs better, which we did not do in the iron bowl. yes, they were open for some middle passes, but, on the whole auburn were in a lot of 3d and long plays, which is the key to stopping their offense. should be a interesting off season. i think pettway, and reed will do a lot to help our defense. we also need a corner or two that are more physical.

 

[Bama Czar]

What I noticed tonight was AU in a "huddle" for almost ten seconds and then spinning around into a new formation with only a few seconds before the clock ran out and snapping the ball within two seconds of breaking huddle. Earlier, I had thought that allowing only 6-8 seconds between snaps would balance the game again, but it obviously won't. A new rule needs to apply to how many seconds from huddle to snap. Even if the defense is not allowed to sub, it at least deserves the time to get set (something HUNH teams are not doing now)...

I agree with you that this issue seems to be somewhat limited to AU in how they huddle 2 yards from the LOS, call a play, & turn to snap the ball in about 2 seconds. I see this as a gimmick used exactly how you described it above. Somewhat "sucker punching" the defense. Unfortunately, I'm not sure how you stop someone from doing it. A rule for a minimum time from huddle to snap would be tough due to possibly running up against the pay clock. It would require teams to get their play call in even faster in order to break the huddle in time to allow for the mandatory 6-8 seconds for defensive adjustments. I'm not sure how to handle that..... I certainly think more teams will be doing this next season.

 

[bamadws56]

It really is pretty specific to Auburn. There are a lot of teams running the read option with the HUNH, but none I've seen attack the middle quite as consistently as AU. The HUNH is really not an offense, it's a tactic. It's become melded in the public mind with the read option because the two are usually combined. The HUNH confers much more of an advantage to the read option, with its misdirection, than it would to a conventional option. And, you're correct about clogging the middle and walking up safeties putting the corners on an island. When we did that, Our two starting corners, one a freshman and the other with lingering turf toe (don't they all linger) couldn't stand up to the pressure...

But that is the point! Auburn isn't cheating, they are using their tempo to isolate our shaky corners. Same thing if we have a D-lineman that they can't block one on one, and we use motion and stunts to prevent them from double teaming him. The defenses need to get better, they don't need the refs to save them. With that being said, since procedure penalties are not getting seen or called, they should make that reviewable and assign the replay booth to verify that every play. If they failed to line up correctly, be set for one second, boom; illegal procedure, bring it back and the game slows down for that one play.

 

[Ole Man Dan]

What we should lobby for is a set time after the ball is spotted, before play resumes.
That would give Defenses time to respond. Give the Refs time to get in position, Give the Refs time to throw a flag. Give time to consider a replay...
Under the current rules the Offense gets away with a lot, by rushing the Refs.
(Gives me time to sip my coffee too )

That's the way to neutralize the HUNH.

 

[Bama Czar]

But that is the point! Auburn isn't cheating, they are using their tempo to isolate our shaky corners. Same thing if we have a D-lineman that they can't block one on one, and we use motion and stunts to prevent them from double teaming him. The defenses need to get better, they don't need the refs to save them. With that being said, since procedure penalties are not getting seen or called, they should make that reviewable and assign the replay booth to verify that every play. If they failed to line up correctly, be set for one second, boom; illeagle procedure, bring it back and the game slows down for that one play.

I disagree with this. They are two separate issues entirely. Tempo did not isolate our corners, scheme did in defending the various option responsibilities. Tempo enabled Aubunr from allowing anyone to make pre-snap adjustments based on formation & etc... You simply don't have time to make the play call on defense.

 

[Ole Man Dan]

I agree with you that this issue seems to be somewhat limited to AU in how they huddle 2 yards from the LOS, call a play, & turn to snap the ball in about 2 seconds. I see this as a gimmick used exactly how you described it above. Somewhat "sucker punching" the defense. Unfortunately, I'm not sure how you stop someone from doing it. A rule for a minimum time from huddle to snap would be tough due to possibly running up against the pay clock. It would require teams to get their play call in even faster in order to break the huddle in time to allow for the mandatory 6-8 seconds for defensive adjustments. I'm not sure how to handle that..... I certainly think more teams will be doing this next season.

The Auburn 'Quick Snap' is Auburn's version of the 'Knock Out Game'.