After 13 games we're 9-4. Let's revisit our thoughts and outlook on Coach Kalen DeBoer

[92tide]

I didn’t see the last three quarters, but it appears our halftime adjustments were to go out there and lay down.

and it almost caught them completely off guard

 

[Power Eye]

In the current coaching positions of college football, there is really only one head coach/program that I know can win a national title every year and that's Kirby Smart and UGA. They don't lose much, when they do it's a big deal, and it's never an inexcusable loss. Beyond that, there are only two coaches I can think of that have enough of a track record just yet to where they may not can win the big one, but they aren't going to lose to teams they shouldn't, and that's Ryan Day and James Franklin. Honestly, Day is the only one that's really relevant to this discussion because Franklin and Penn St. will never be anything beyond good enough to make a 12 team playoff, but will never win a Big 10 title, much less a national title.

In terms of coaches who could be on the track of what Kirby and Day are doing at UGA and Ohio St, respectively, I would say Sark and Lanning. Both appear to be capable of coaching teams to an elite level and avoiding the inexplicable losses, but time will tell.

The rest of college football world and their head coaches are prone to upset losses, much like we were with every coach we had between Bryant and Saban. It sucks to be back at that point, but unfortunately we are. The question is whether DeBoer is going to be just a good coach or someone like a Kirby, Day, Lanning or Smart. I'm not asking for a national title every other year. I'm just asking that we are in a position to be potentially selected for a 12 team playoff every year and not eliminated heading into the Iron Bowl.

I am very willing to give DeBoer a pass on this year. I do wonder whether we have seen the end of the inexcusable losses, because we've had two this year. Sark struggled his first two years at Texas and they weren't deprived of talent when he took that job. Now he's got the program in a good position, same thing with Lanning, so I'm willing to accept it's hard being elite in year 1. Honestly, only Day has been elite since year 1.

I was thinking earlier today whether I'd prefer to be 8-3 with the wins and losses we have, or 8-3 with losses to UGA, UT and LSU, because it honestly feels like we are 8-3 this year due to sheer talent more so than coaching. If we were 8-3 under the latter scenario, then at least I could feel like we beat the teams we are absolutely supposed to and that it's more about not having the right pieces in place than a coaching issue.

 

[22Musso22]

Now 3 INEXCUSABLE losses.

 

[crimsonaudio]

What I witnessed last night changed everything about my perception of this staff, this team, even the DeBoer hire.

 

[Saban4Ever]

What I witnessed last night changed everything about my perception of this staff, this team, even the DeBoer hire.

I have concerns too. But I also know next year will be better with a new QB and more of his players he recruited. I'm hoping we will have a few new assistants and/or OC too. This team currently supposedly still has some left over issues from when Saban was here. Deboer has been in a tough spot all season. I think losing Grubb at the last minute hurt more than we realize also.

But... if we don't make the playoffs next season, I will be very concerned with the hire. I think some of the development of the current players he inherited was an issue from lack of development over the past few seasons, plus a new coach/OC/DC, etc. I really think once Milroe and some others have moved on that the team will be better.

 

[Evil Crimson Dragon]

What I witnessed last night changed everything about my perception of this staff, this team, even the DeBoer hire.

Quite a few talking heads in the media are already calling him a failure and stating he isnt cut out for the SEC............I dont know if thats a fair assessment since he inherited a few issues with this team, but his work is cut out for him

 

[denver]

Tough to judge Deboer as this isnt his offense at all...once we see that then it will be apparent if he can coach or not in the SEC. Defensively we are young so again time will tell. College football is losing patience though...its win or go now...players and coaches

 

[Evil Crimson Dragon]

Tough to judge Deboer as this isnt his offense at all...once we see that then it will be apparent if he can coach or not in the SEC. Defensively we are young so again time will tell. College football is losing patience though...its win or go now...players and coaches

I'm more than willing to give him the chance to get it going,..........once this lank thing is done and he gets his players I think Bama will look better. Bad spot to be in this year

 

[selmaborntidefan]

Ok now, who would you want to be the head coach if DeBoer was gone? Following Saban isn’t for everybody. You have to give him time or we’ll be Auburn.

I remember a fan and I chatting via email in 2000, when we canned Dubious, and he made the comment that the one thing firing Dubious would do to cause problems is give rise to the notion that there's no stability/continuity at Alabama with all the coaches we might go through. Of course, it got worse as - for those who don't want to remember - we had no fewer than five head coaches PLUS ONE INTERIM between November 18, 2000 and January 3, 2007.

If people organize the DeBoer death march, we may as well get ready for a guaranteed decade of mediocrity - because who in their right minds would want to be the guy who follows a guy chewed up in only two years' time, particularly when you look at his pre-Alabama record (which does include a stint in FBS).

Saban was leaving anyway, which limited us to coaches who were available in the year he stepped aside. We can't just say, "well we want your coach so come here." We WANTED Bowden in 1990, but by that time he wasn't leaving Tallahassee. There's a lot better names we could have gotten in 1997 than Dubious, but oh well, that was when fans ran the program.

====================

This old school "well, DeBoer should have just benched him" is the old school mentality that no longer exists with paid players - and a major contributor to Saban saying, "I'm outta here."

 

[TexasBama]

I remember a fan and I chatting via email in 2000, when we canned Dubious, and he made the comment that the one thing firing Dubious would do to cause problems is give rise to the notion that there's no stability/continuity at Alabama with all the coaches we might go through. Of course, it got worse as - for those who don't want to remember - we had no fewer than five head coaches PLUS ONE INTERIM between November 18, 2000 and January 3, 2007.

If people organize the DeBoer death march, we may as well get ready for a guaranteed decade of mediocrity - because who in their right minds would want to be the guy who follows a guy chewed up in only two years' time, particularly when you look at his pre-Alabama record (which does include a stint in FBS).

Saban was leaving anyway, which limited us to coaches who were available in the year he stepped aside. We can't just say, "well we want your coach so come here." We WANTED Bowden in 1990, but by that time he wasn't leaving Tallahassee. There's a lot better names we could have gotten in 1997 than Dubious, but oh well, that was when fans ran the program.

====================

This old school "well, DeBoer should have just benched him" is the old school mentality that no longer exists with paid players - and a major contributor to Saban saying, "I'm outta here."

I think we also wanted Bowden in 1986. LSU was considering him as well.

 

[Valley View]

Milroe's "business decision" to not tackle and instead try to trip the defender after his interception should have been enough to put him on the bench the rest of the game / season. He had the angle and the speed to make a tackle and ... didn't.

That was a pitiful effort, and a flag should have been thrown.

 

[Evil Crimson Dragon]

I remember a fan and I chatting via email in 2000, when we canned Dubious, and he made the comment that the one thing firing Dubious would do to cause problems is give rise to the notion that there's no stability/continuity at Alabama with all the coaches we might go through. Of course, it got worse as - for those who don't want to remember - we had no fewer than five head coaches PLUS ONE INTERIM between November 18, 2000 and January 3, 2007.

If people organize the DeBoer death march, we may as well get ready for a guaranteed decade of mediocrity - because who in their right minds would want to be the guy who follows a guy chewed up in only two years' time, particularly when you look at his pre-Alabama record (which does include a stint in FBS).

Saban was leaving anyway, which limited us to coaches who were available in the year he stepped aside. We can't just say, "well we want your coach so come here." We WANTED Bowden in 1990, but by that time he wasn't leaving Tallahassee. There's a lot better names we could have gotten in 1997 than Dubious, but oh well, that was when fans ran the program.

====================

This old school "well, DeBoer should have just benched him" is the old school mentality that no longer exists with paid players - and a major contributor to Saban saying, "I'm outta here."

How do you deal with it? Letting him continuing on and trying to talk him through it apparently doesnt work and almost guarantees a loss if things go sideways

 

[mlh]

I wonder what the reaction would be if CKD came out at the end of the season and said: "We have a cancer in our locker room. We have a group of players who are putting themselves ahead of the team. They value the money they can get over the legacy and standard of the Crimson Tide. Therefore, I am cleaning house. Those players are gone and we will rebuild the program. But it will take some time. There may be a few lean years while we recruit players who want to do things the right way and who want to represent the university and this storied program in a way that will, once again, make you proud. It will take time and there will be disappointment and struggles along the way. But when we are done, the Bama standard will be back and stronger than ever. Thank you for your support."

 

[crimsonaudio]

 

[JohnD]

Who knew BOB would look like Nostradamus in the long run

A lot of people agreed with him when he said it.

 

[Tidewater]

What I witnessed last night changed everything about my perception of this staff, this team, even the DeBoer hire.

Yep. It is not three losses to Vandy, UT and OU (although if the losses had been UGA, UT and LSU, we would be more likely to shrug it off as "first year head coach" stuff). It is the atmospherics around the team that are much more ominous. The team seems undisciplined, lacking in resilience, and cohesiveness. I am much more concerned about the program than I was 36 hours ago.
Still, beat the Barn like a rented mule and then give the bowl opponent the Mich State 2015 treatment ("Alabama does."), and I will feel a bit better.

 

[alwayshavebeen]

This comes very close to summing up my thoughts - LINK To Complete Article

Sooners QB Jackson Arnold, who was benched earlier this season, ran all over Alabama for 131 yards. On the flip side, Oklahoma took away Jalen Milroe's running ability (7 yards on 15 carries) and forced him to try to win through the air. Milroe regressed again, throwing three interceptions, one of which was returned for a touchdown, and looked completely helpless for much of the game against Brent Venables' defense. The offensive line, a veteran group, also was a mess.

1) Find the right QB
Jalen Milroe was always an imperfect fit for DeBoer and what he has historically preferred at the QB position. The truth is it was the same way for Saban. But roster issues elsewhere, namely on the offensive line, necessitated the need to take the limited passing ability and tendency to make big mistakes at inopportune times in exchange for Milroe's big-play ability and tantalizing athleticism. With Milroe expected to leave for the NFL, DeBoer needs to get the position right next year. Backup QB Ty Simpson, a former five-star, is the presumptive favorite to replace Milroe, but it is a crowded room that also includes Washington transfer Austin Mack and incoming five-star Keelon Russell, who is the No. 3 overall recruit in the class of 2025. The Tide has a great building block with star freshman WR Ryan Williams, and DeBoer needs to capitalize with the right person to get him the ball.

MORE: Alabama needs more weapons outside Ryan Williams in 2025

2) Assess the staff and determine what needs to change
Growing pains were expected in Year 1 trying to replace the greatest college football coach ever and you have to be careful about not being overly reactionary to a disappointing season. But it will be critical for DeBoer to do a top-to-bottom analysis of everything, especially his staff, to see if everything is working as it should be. Vanderbilt and Oklahoma offered up the playbook on how to beat Kane Wommack's 4-2-5 defense. Is that fixable with personnel better suited to play in that defensive style? Or does Wommack need to adjust his style? Similarly, the offensive line never lived up to its expectations this season despite returning a veteran group. Is that talent or coaching/development? Something never clicked with that group as Oklahoma capitalized on Saturday night.

A staff overhaul after only one season is rarely successful -- and not what this program seems to need -- but DeBoer needs to assess this group without bias or favor and be willing to make a hard decision or two if necessary.

 

[JDCrimson]

You cant say that as the leader of any program, competitors will use it against you in recruiting. Best thing to do, is have the resolve to do what is needed and do it as quietly as you can.

I wonder what the reaction would be if CKD came out at the end of the season and said: "We have a cancer in our locker room. We have a group of players who are putting themselves ahead of the team. They value the money they can get over the legacy and standard of the Crimson Tide. Therefore, I am cleaning house. Those players are gone and we will rebuild the program. But it will take some time. There may be a few lean years while we recruit players who want to do things the right way and who want to represent the university and this storied program in a way that will, once again, make you proud. It will take time and there will be disappointment and struggles along the way. But when we are done, the Bama standard will be back and stronger than ever. Thank you for your support."

 

[TideEngineer08]

What I witnessed last night changed everything about my perception of this staff, this team, even the DeBoer hire.

I would like to see him without the lank nonsense, and I mean all of it. But I’m not sure that will be possible. He didn’t create this mess, Nick Saban did. But now he’s got to clean it up or he won’t be around more than another season or two.

His OC needs to go though. I’ve not seen a single adjustment all year when things do not go right or the other team diagnoses him. Not a single adjustment. It’s continue to pound our heads against the wall. I’m 50/50 on the DC. The plan last night was moronic, but it did essentially hold the OU offense to 10 points. Should have been zero, to be sure, with how injured they were.

 

[selmaborntidefan]

I think we also wanted Bowden in 1986. LSU was considering him as well.

Correct, but there's a key point: Bowden WAS AVAILABLE at the end of the 1986 season.

That's my point, we can just throw out and say, "We want X, hey X, come coach us!" I mean, I know YOU know that but this is where the "Fire Everybody" mentality doesn't consider that it's sorta like toppling a dictator in a sovereign nation - you have to have a plan for what to do next. I posted on here about it way back, but the post-1986 LSU head coaching search was the stuff of high comedy.

Here's a bit of it:

In the interim between the end of the season and the bowl game, Arnsparger accepted the AD position at Florida. It is basically thought that now 60 (which you have to remember was older then than now because of medical advances even since 1986), Arnsparger wanted an administrative position....oh and the LSU AD job was open because Brodhead had resigned.....(snip)....

Thus, Arnsparger and the job he wants is right there for him. LSU says, "Nah, we have someone else in mind." But then they made a HUGE mistake: they let Arnsparger pick his successor. After all, there's no AD, right? But then one of the board members came up with a radical suggestion that almost worked - they basically decided to put out a call for a head coach. And amazingly enough, the coaches came running. Wanna know who LSU passed on?

Well, one guy they missed was former Cleveland Browns coach Sam Rutigliano. Working as an analyst at NBC at the time, Sam wanted back in the game. A second possibility was ULL coach and the offensive coordinator of Clemson's 1981 national champions...and former LSU QB....Nelson Stokely.

There was one more name in the mix, the most impressive of the guys who came to Baton Rouge. He'd gone 3-0 as a quarterback against LSU over 20 years earlier. He'd fielded some dynamic and impressive teams in the USFL. And he was just waiting for an SEC school to call for him to come be a legend. The guy's name was Steve Spurrier.

There's an amusing tale that happened in all this. A few days before Christmas in 1986, Rutigliano and Spurrier both wound up having dinner in opposite ends of a restaurant called Ruth's Chris Steakhouse in Baton Rouge. Both were so certain they had the job and would be announced the next day that BOTH coaches were telling fans talking to them about what their plans were (Rutigliano, in fact, was telling his yarns to the publisher of Tiger Rag). Stokely worked the phones. But what happened the next day was a move about as insane as the twisted tale that sent Charlie Strong to Texas in 2013.

Arnsparger had chosen his replacement - 33-year old Mike Archer, the DC of the Tigers in 1985 and 1986, who had zero head coaching experience at any level. After this parade (charade?) of coaches, the LSU Athletic Council followed the recommendation of the board and submitted three names for coaching consideration:

1) Archer
2) Georgia Offensive Coordinator George Haeffner
3) Denver Broncos offensive coordinator Mike Shanahan

(For those who don't know, Shanahan had been the OC for Florida 1980-83).

Naturally, the LSU board managed to pick probably the LEAST qualified and certainly the WORST choice of those six names. This was the Gene Chizik hire on steroids but without Cam Newton (I know, that's an anachronism).