Alabama QB competition article

KrAzY3

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I think maybe we're just over analyzing it. Simple fact seems to be that Tagovailoa is just a better qb.
Why is it that we have to include Tua when discussing Hurts? I mean I've already said, over and over that Tua should be the starter (I mean it was like the first thing I said right up there). That doesn't in and of itself change anything about Hurts though does it? I mean I get the context is of a QB battle, but this is also the default thread for QB discussion as well. I don't think you have to say Tua should be starter so that makes Hurts a bad quarterback for example, there should be room for the possibility that Hurts is actually a pretty good college quarterback, but that Tua is better, at least in a pro style offense.
 
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Intl.Aperture

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Why is it that we have to include Tua when discussing Hurts? I mean I've already said, over and over that Tua should be the starter (I mean it was like the first thing I said right up there). That doesn't in and of itself change anything about Hurts though does it? I mean I get the context is of a QB battle, but this is also the default thread for QB discussion as well. I don't think you have to say Tua should be starter so that makes Hurts a bad quarterback for example, there should be room for the possibility that Hurts is actually a pretty good college quarterback, but that Tua is better, at least in a pro style offense.
I think most people believe this, despite the volume of criticism. The criticism is rooted in comparison as well as expectation. But I think every pro-Tua commenter would say exactly the above about Hurts.

But I think, for now, there is no way to discuss Hurts in a vacuum. We are too far down the competition road and we have an exact comparison of the 2 players in the same game, each with a half of experience against a defense giving 100%. That isolated event is used to backup any critique, good or bad, of Hurts over the past 2 seasons, and it was borne out of a moment of competition between the 2 QBs.
 

uaintn

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I believe that by the end of last season defenses with good to very good athletes had developed an effective game plan against Hurts. For whatever reason, coaching issues, Hurts's own limitations, etc. we were not able to adjust in ways that allowed us to continue to be very effective on offense. Failures to make significant gains on first down, (partially leading to) very poor third down conversion percentages, and a scheme that kept Hurts from breaking into the open field, especially in the middle of the field where I thought he was most effective, caused significant issues. LSU showed how it was done. Mississippi State worked the plan very effectively. API managed the same level of exploitation (which combined with our hobbled defense spelled disaster). Clemson attempted the same, but strong play and scoring by our defense plus some limitations on their defense, really hindered their ability to execute that defensive game plan. Georgia, especially taking advantage of Smart's familiarity with our schemes/personnel, had us basically stymied after the first drive until the second series with Tua. And, to be honest, they weren't terrible against him -- though they may have thought the game was over before it was.

I would expect teams to defend Hurts the same way this year. Have we adjusted and developed in ways that would help us overcome that scheme? Frankly, we'd be far down the schedule before we really ran into a team with the defensive prowess to make games close. But once we did, there are several of them who could wreck our season. Because I am not confident we can overcome that defensive scheme, I expect Hurts not to be the starting quarterback, presuming Tua is able to play.

All that said. I love Jalen Hurts. Everything he has done and said has been a credit to our program. I do not believe he has a future as an NFL quarterback, but I would HATE to see him on the other side of the field with a team like Georgia Tech. I do believe he might blossom at H Back or as a kick returner. I also think he will someday be an outstanding football coach, if he chooses that as a career.
 

Crimson White

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Why is it that we have to include Tua when discussing Hurts?
Since you're asking me specifically: Because all things are relative. If Tua were not on this same team, we wouldn't be having this discussion, or at least not until Jones or another qb proves they are better than Hurts. All the mental gymnastics about Hurts would be a moot point. A lot of the posts, including some of yours, and no offense intended, wouldn't even be. Heck, this thread is about Alabama QB competition, and since we're not talking a lot, yet, about Jones, then it's Hurts and Tagovailoa.

That aside, we discuss specific players at other positions. Some even catch a good bit of flak, by name even. I'm not sure why anybody would be offended about discussing the qb position. Judging by the number of posts in this thread, a lot of people are pretty interested in it, including you and me. Either or any of us could quit it at any time. You know?
 

Crimson White

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FWIW very similar things were being said going into last year.

I've little doubt he is improving. But will it be enough? Not likely.
Both qbs had a very good spring last year. It was in the real live games vs good defenses whose intent was to pound the opposing qb that we had problems. That aside, you expect team mates to support each other, though that wasn't always the case during the regular season last year.
 
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Bamabuzzard

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FWIW very similar things were being said going into last year.

I've little doubt he is improving. But will it be enough? Not likely.
I'll say this about the comments in the article about Jalen "making reads" etc. We heard a lot of the same last spring and outside of the vastly inferior teams, it didn't transfer to the regular season.

If Jalen is picked over Tua to be the starter just by his performance in spring practices/scrimmages and we get into the season only to find out it hasn't translated over to the regular season (like last season). I cannot imagine the backlash that will occur in the locker room and more than likely by the fanbase and lord knows the media. Because my guess Tua will have already started the transfer process and left the program.
 

Crimson White

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I'll say this about the comments in the article about Jalen "making reads" etc. We heard a lot of the same last spring and outside of the vastly inferior teams, it didn't transfer to the regular season.

If Jalen is picked over Tua to be the starter just by his performance in spring practices/scrimmages and we get into the season only to find out it hasn't translated over to the regular season (like last season). I cannot imagine the backlash that will occur in the locker room and more than likely by the fanbase and lord knows the media. Because my guess Tua will have already started the transfer process and left the program.
I agree on every point. I am not even sure why there is a supposed qb competition.
 

BamaSully

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I agree on every point. I am not even sure why there is a supposed qb competition.
There is a competition at every position on the field. That is one of the many reasons coach Nick Saban is so successful. If you've followed Saban's career you know that competition never ends. It's one of his hallmarks. There is no "finish line"' in his process.
 

AlexanderFan

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What else are they supposed to say? We heard the same out of Spring practice last year.

At this point we are left with two options to believe:

Alabama has terrible quarterback coaches and TT just shut it out and relied on his high school teaching to excel in the SEC,
OR
JH just can't put the practice into the game like TT can. By no means am I saying Jalen is a terrible quarterback, just that a pro quarterback may not be in his future.


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tusks_n_raider

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I agree on every point. I am not even sure why there is a supposed qb competition.
To keep Jalen on the team as our Backup instead of transferring right now.

I do think CNS is in his mind trying to honestly give Jalen a fair shot to compete though. But I'd also say that right now CNS has to already know in his mind that barring injury Tua can't be beat by Jalen in a fair competition.

So in way it's really all for show and to create the illusion of a competition where there really isn't one.... but again I don't think it's from a purposefully deceitful place.

Honestly it probably really is best for Jalen to stay right now. He will finally get some dedicated QB coaching from some of the best guys in the business the next 2 seasons. If he takes a RS he could still play and start in his 5th year either here or somewhere else via graduate transfer.
 

JustNeedMe81

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What else are they supposed to say? We heard the same out of Spring practice last year.

At this point we are left with two options to believe:

Alabama has terrible quarterback coaches and TT just shut it out and relied on his high school teaching to excel in the SEC,
OR
JH just can't put the practice into the game like TT can. By no means am I saying Jalen is a terrible quarterback, just that a pro quarterback may not be in his future.


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Let's stop for a moment and understand that there are several factors that didnt exists last spring.

1. We actually have a qb coach.
2. Maybe Jalen is improving, but were too busy to notice that.
3. Eno is very good QB coach, so we can't compare this spring to last spring. I just want Jalen to improve and that's all the article talked about.... his progress under Eno'z directions.

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Intl.Aperture

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Let's stop for a moment and understand that there are several factors that didnt exists last spring.

1. We actually have a qb coach.
2. Maybe Jalen is improving, but were too busy to notice that.
3. Eno is very good QB coach, so we can't compare this spring to last spring. I just want Jalen to improve and that's all the article talked about.... his progress under Eno'z directions.

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Agreed on every point.

I will point out, however, that TT is getting the same focused and customized coaching from Enos. My expectation would be that they both improve.

I've little doubt that Hurts is improving, but is he moving fast enough and far enough to outdistance Tua? Well that's what spring practice is all about. ;)

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BamaMoon

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If Tua were not on this same team, we wouldn't be having this discussion, or at least not until Jones or another qb proves they are better than Hurts. All the mental gymnastics about Hurts would be a moot point.
Well, I disagree.

Not only would we be talking about it, we'd be going crazy asking why we don't have a QB that can read a defense and complete 3rd down throws. We'd be talking about it a lot and nobody would be happy because we wouldn't be talking about '17 cause we wouldn't have won it.
 

KrAzY3

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Not only would we be talking about it, we'd be going crazy asking why we don't have a QB that can read a defense and complete 3rd down throws. We'd be talking about it a lot and nobody would be happy because we wouldn't be talking about '17 cause we wouldn't have won it.
See, that's where I'm not so sure. First off, it isn't as though Hurts is the first quarterback Alabama has had that have had limitations. For instance, there was some frustration with John Parker Wilson, but nothing like this. People were kind of pleased with his 2008 season, which was basically just do well enough that the defense can win the game. The guy threw for 9 TDs, 7 INTs, had an average of only 7 yards per (lower than even Hurts in 2016, when as has been pointed out Hurts had a lot of behind the LOS stuff). He did all that with a completion percentage of 57.9 and a rating of 120. And people were still kind of ok with that... Now you might argue that JPW had a tougher overall situation to deal with, but Hurts darn sure hasn't had a cakewalk either.

People were not overjoyed with JPW's performance, but they weren't going crazy that's for sure. May be this speaks more to where expectations are now vs. where they were then, but I think the situation certainly upped the pressure considerably.
 
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rgw

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Wilson also played on a much less talented pair of Saban teams. He was no great quarterback but if he played with the 2016/2017 Alabama offensive roster, I have to imagine his numbers would've been 2010 McElroy-like.
 
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tusks_n_raider

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See, that's where I'm not so sure. First off, it isn't as though Hurts is the first quarterback Alabama has had that have had limitations.
May be this speaks more to where expectations are now vs. where they were then, but I think the situation certainly upped the pressure considerably.
You are right but he's the 1st one who's limitations prevented us from winning 1 NCG and almost a 2nd. He's a liability come CFP time against Elite Defenses. No offense to the guy because he's still a teenager who might need a lot more time to develop.

JMHO but of the CNS QB's we could have beaten Clemson in 2016 and Georgia in 2017 with:

Gmac, AJ, Sims, Coker, and Tua

We could not beat either with:

JPW and Hurts

It is what it is at this point. I love the guy I really do but he's extremely 1 dimensional and absolutely not a playmaking passing QB who can go out there and carve a great opponent up as part of the gameplan.
 

BamaMoon

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Wilson also played on a much less talent pair of Saban teams. He was no great quarterback but if he played with the 2016/2017 Alabama offensive roster, I have to imagine his numbers would've been 2010 McElroy-like.
I agree with this.
 

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