Alabama QBs in 2024, II

[Bamabuzzard]

I haven't read every post in this thread and I have no inside knowledge like some of you. But this is how I look at it. Most people mellow with age and CNS is no exception. Most likely this happened slowly over time without him realizing just how much. With NIL and the way players are coddled before they get to college he lost some control over this team and just didn't want to do what it would take to get it back. What I really hate is that he didn't go out the way he wanted to.

He admitted as much (about mellowing) in a post retirement interview and also admitted the attitudes of today's players (NIL/xfer portal). So, yeah, it's not a huge leap to say he was dealing with types of athletes he'd never dealt with before. That's why, though we'll never officially know, imo the USF game put on full display what today's college athletes are about and why he retired.

But thats CKD's problem now and I hope Saban enjoys his retirement with his family.

 

[CrimsonEyeshade]

Exactly. Good post.

But he never said the locker room said who to start. Big difference. These are his quotes from that time.


Saban after the South Florida game:
"We're going to evaluate the quarterbacks that played today and evaluate Jalen Milroe in terms of how he played and decide this week who gives us the best opportunity to be successful as an offensive team, and that's the way we'll go,"

"Thought [Simpson] did OK. He made a couple really good throws and we missed a couple big-play throws that we've been making some of those, but I thought he played well, managed the game well," Saban said. "We ran the ball quite a bit when he was in there. I don't think the sacks were necessarily his fault so we'll evaluate it when we watch the film."

Saban on why he started Milroe against Ole Miss:

"Jalen really showed the leadership that I was looking for during the game in terms of supporting his teammates and doing the things he needed to do," Saban said. "He's had the opportunity to play. So have the other guys. Jalen played the best of all those guys."

 

[PA Tide Fan]

But he never said the locker room said who to start. Big difference. These are his quotes from that time.


Saban after the South Florida game:
"We're going to evaluate the quarterbacks that played today and evaluate Jalen Milroe in terms of how he played and decide this week who gives us the best opportunity to be successful as an offensive team, and that's the way we'll go,"

I think you're correct that Saban never actually said the team chose Milroe to start, although I think it was obvious that the players were behind Milroe. What seemed suspicious to some was the fact that the team meeting was on Sunday and Milroe got reinstated as starter on Monday. Saban said the coaching staff would "decide this week" about who the starter would be so I was expecting it to be a mid to late week decision but not be made on Monday already. Whenever there was uncertainty about the QB position it was never Saban's style to let the opposing coach know in advance who was starting but in this case he ended up letting Lane Kiffin know early in the week who the QB would be. Now maybe Saban looked at film on Sunday, decided quickly and wanted to announce on Monday so the media wouldn't hound him about it all week. The other possibility is that after the team meeting a player or players went to Saban and told him the team wants Milroe at QB.

 

[RollTide_HTTR]

Here is why I have a hard time believing in this full team revolt forcing Saban's hand.

1. The team forced Saban to choose Mirloe
2. Buchner who everyone agrees looked awful was ahead of Ty too
3. Bond transfered because of Milroe
4. Burton chose Ty for pro day because Milroe isn't good enough
5. The defense didn't partake in the bad play vs USf so clearly they weren't part of the precieved tank
6. The OL that was bad in 2022 and bad most of 2023 admittedly had it's worse game vs USF but it actually tanked that game to force Saban to choose Milroe.

Is it fair to say that doesn't all add up and doesn't make a lot of sense. Maybe it's true it just seems farfetched to me.

It would make more sense if maybe the bad OL had a hangover game after losing to Texas at home and maybe having some QB drama over the week which added to the distractions. Then the coaches decided the QB drama was hanging over the team too much and it was best to make a decision and move on. That decision ended up being Milroe. So maybe the team did force Saban's hand but not in the way people are suggesting. Or maybe it's some other variation of that.

Idk that just seems more plausible to me than a full team revolt that was maybe just the OL and I guess RBs?

I'm not saying I'm right. I just need more real evidence before I believe the other narrative.

 

[JDCrimson]

I dont think it anyone on here has said it was a full team revolt. I do believe there was a clique of OL starters and skill guys who wanted JM as the starter. I don't think it was so much against TS but the decision to bring in TB did not go over well within the team. Certainly if TB was going to be given every opportunity to become the starter. That decision backfired on Saban and the staff.

Here is why I have a hard time believing in this full team revolt forcing Saban's hand.

1. The team forced Saban to choose Mirloe
2. Buchner who everyone agrees looked awful was ahead of Ty too
3. Bond transfered because of Milroe
4. Burton chose Ty for pro day because Milroe isn't good enough
5. The defense didn't partake in the bad play vs USf so clearly they weren't part of the precieved tank
6. The OL that was bad in 2022 and bad most of 2023 admittedly had it's worse game vs USF but it actually tanked that game to force Saban to choose Milroe.

Is it fair to say that doesn't all add up and doesn't make a lot of sense. Maybe it's true it just seems farfetched to me.

It would make more sense if maybe the bad OL had a hangover game after losing to Texas at home and maybe having some QB drama over the week which added to the distractions. Then the coaches decided the QB drama was hanging over the team too much and it was best to make a decision and move on. That decision ended up being Milroe. So maybe the team did force Saban's hand but not in the way people are suggesting. Or maybe it's some other variation of that.

Idk that just seems more plausible to me than a full team revolt that was maybe just the OL and I guess RBs?

I'm not saying I'm right. I just need more real evidence before I believe the other narrative.

 

[TiderJack]

I'm not saying I'm right. I just need more real evidence before I believe the other narrative.

Agreed. I will believe this theory if anybody can produce any evidence (it would no longer be a theory if..). Be damned with facts and let's base beliefs in heresay is the way of the world.

 

[Cruloc]

Saban provides injury updates on 3 Alabama starters, including OL Tyler Booker

Nick Saban updated the status of multiple Alabama football starters after the Tide's 17-3 win over South Florida.

www.al.com

Nick Saban reveals importance of Tyler Booker to Alabama offense

Alabama head coach Nick Saban raved over offensive lineman Tyler Booker's communication skills and how it helps the rest of his team.

www.on3.com

 

[81usaf92]

Here is why I have a hard time believing in this full team revolt forcing Saban's hand.

1. The team forced Saban to choose Mirloe
2. Buchner who everyone agrees looked awful was ahead of Ty too
3. Bond transfered because of Milroe
4. Burton chose Ty for pro day because Milroe isn't good enough
5. The defense didn't partake in the bad play vs USf so clearly they weren't part of the precieved tank
6. The OL that was bad in 2022 and bad most of 2023 admittedly had it's worse game vs USF but it actually tanked that game to force Saban to choose Milroe.

Is it fair to say that doesn't all add up and doesn't make a lot of sense. Maybe it's true it just seems farfetched to me.

It would make more sense if maybe the bad OL had a hangover game after losing to Texas at home and maybe having some QB drama over the week which added to the distractions. Then the coaches decided the QB drama was hanging over the team too much and it was best to make a decision and move on. That decision ended up being Milroe. So maybe the team did force Saban's hand but not in the way people are suggesting. Or maybe it's some other variation of that.

Idk that just seems more plausible to me than a full team revolt that was maybe just the OL and I guess RBs?

I'm not saying I'm right. I just need more real evidence before I believe the other narrative.

I don’t know where anyone indicated it was a “full team” revolt, but more that it was a significant amount of players with influence.

Again I do know for a fact that Brooks was benched for trying to sabotage Buchner and Simpson during the fall. There were a good many of players that hated the idea that the coaching staff was forcing Buchner (that is an absolute fact).

But again… If you think Saban made up his mind about the quarterback situation in a half of a rainy road USF game then why didn’t he make up his mind after a half of a home MTSU game? The problem lies in the fact that Milroe was suspended a week after a horrific Texas game and suddenly our offense can’t score more than 17 points on the worst defense we play all season. Either Milroe is the only quarterback on that team or we have a chemistry issue. You don’t just go that bad with that much of a talent advantage often.

 

[81usaf92]

Agreed. I will believe this theory if anybody can produce any evidence (it would no longer be a theory if..). Be damned with facts and let's base beliefs in heresay is the way of the world.

Or people only like sources when it lines up with their beliefs. I remember everyone loved Josh Pate and had zero issues with his “sources” until he started talking negatively about Alabama’s team.

 

[colbysullivan]

I dont think it anyone on here has said it was a full team revolt. I do believe there was a clique of OL starters and skill guys who wanted JM as the starter. I don't think it was so much against TS but the decision to bring in TB did not go over well within the team. Certainly if TB was going to be given every opportunity to become the starter. That decision backfired on Saban and the staff.

This…right….here.

 

[colbysullivan]

I love how so many people continue to not see the smoking gun here. Bond left because of Milroe. Burton had Simpson throwing to him at his pro day. Film evaluators are commenting how open Burton was all last year, but Milroe didn’t throw it to him. Goodness, what more proof do you need that Milroe isn’t a good QB?

 

[81usaf92]

I love how so many people continue to not see the smoking gun here. Bond left because of Milroe. Burton had Simpson throwing to him at his pro day. Film evaluators are commenting how open Burton was all last year, but Milroe didn’t throw it to him. Goodness, what more proof do you need that Milroe isn’t a good QB?

There is also this belief that Saban can do no wrong and wouldn’t allow things to happen that the average fan would see as an obvious red flag. To many Alabama fans, Saban never can take blame for something negative, and it really makes having a fruitful discussion possible in cases that involve controversy with the team.

Take this one into account: 2017

The common Alabama fan believes that Saban acted upon instinct and made a swift judgment call to put Tua in the game the second half vs Georgia to win a legendary game.

The alternative story: There was a receiver revolt after the aTm game that Locksley had to put down. Then had to put down again after the Auburn loss and get Saban to put in packages specifically designed around Tua as the quarterback. Then at halftime vs Georgia Saban tried to tear into Daboll only for Daboll to threaten to sit in the locker room if Saban didn’t finally put the quarterback in that the offense is designed around.

The latter is the true story but has less easily accessible links or excerpts about mostly because it makes Saban look mortal. Alabama and New England (with Brady) rarely let drama get too far out of the locker room like other teams did. And it’s conditioned many to just automatically assume that there is no drama whatsoever.

2023 had some drama surrounding the quarterbacks and the team chemistry. That much is true. To what extent we don’t fully know yet.

 

[RollTide_HTTR]

It still doesn't add up to me. I'm not saying that players weren't unsettled by Buchner coming in. And I certainly don't think Saban can do no wrong.

But the current popular narrative doesn't add up to me.

 

[colbysullivan]

It still doesn't add up to me. I'm not saying that players weren't unsettled by Buchner coming in. And I certainly don't think Saban can do no wrong.

But the current popular narrative doesn't add up to me.

I mean, that’s your prerogative you’re entitled to it. From my perspective, it’s plain as day, and I can’t understand how people don’t see it.

 

[RollTide_HTTR]

I mean, that’s your prerogative you’re entitled to it. From my perspective, it’s plain as day, and I can’t understand how people don’t see it.

Because the story doesn't make sense at all. It's illogical. Brooks was benched for doing what allegedly the OL and some other "skill players" were doing but 2 of the mains skill players of the season also transferred/chose Ty for their pro day. So the skill player we have a story on is a guy who had 3 catches all season. Clearly he wasn't the one making Saban do anything.

But also Buchner who I think everyone here agreed was not the guy (he was bad at Notre Dame too despite winning "MVP" in a bowl game where he threw 3 INTs). But Buchner was also ahead of Ty. So clearly the staff had some big reservations about Ty. According to basically every insider even including 81 on here has said Ty did not look all that great last spring/fall and Rodney Orr has said multiple times he "wasn't ready".

But some how this all adds up to poor old Saban giving in to some players demands to play Milroe.

I'm not saying there isn't truth to the story. I'm sure there was some unrest bringing in Buchner (frankly I think rightfully so) and maybe I could buy Saban rushed his decision a bit to maintain team harmony but to me that seems like a reasonable decision because no one seemed to think Ty was ready anyway and we all saw Buchner(idc what the team around him was doing dude threw every ball into the dirt).

 

[davefrat]

No...it's what '81 said.

I was trying to convey "conspiracy theories" exist when there's no information to suggest something else happened. Because of the way the JM/USF benching and re-ascension after not playing occurred without CNS givining more info the "conspiracy" that the team laid down to protest for JM against USF sprouted wings. And, since there's never been a better explanation of what happened, it seems reasonable to believe.

I mentioned you because you've asked for proof of CNS saying "the team chose Jalen" (after USF). I don't know if CNS ever used those exact words, but the inference in the words he said is without doubt what he meant.

I suggested if CNS would have just come clean and explained JM had been suspended for behavioral issues and not allowed it to look like there was an open tryout for a new QB during the USF game it would have made a lot more sense. But, as it played out, it looked like JM was benched for his poor performance and that TB and TS where given an opportunity to win the job against USF. It looked like the team laid down in protest of JM not playing. The next Monday or Tuesday CNS announces JM is now the starter because the team chose him.

I love CNS. But he's not perfect and he bungled this situation IMO.

Bungles his way to another SEC championship and playoff berth.

 

[RollTide_HTTR]

Also a team that was clearly flawed from a number of standpoints, including QB, came together won the SEC and came very close to playing for a National Championship. I mean, seems to me that Saban handled the situation really well and we probably overachieved.

 

[81usaf92]

It still doesn't add up to me. I'm not saying that players weren't unsettled by Buchner coming in. And I certainly don't think Saban can do no wrong.

But the current popular narrative doesn't add up to me.

What part of it doesn’t add up

 

[AlexanderFan]

I mean, that’s your prerogative you’re entitled to it. From my perspective, it’s plain as day, and I can’t understand how people don’t see it.

People don’t want to think others are capable of being that petty.

 

[TiderJack]

I mean, that’s your prerogative you’re entitled to it. From my perspective, it’s plain as day, and I can’t understand how people don’t see it.

I guess because there are no facts or public comments from the people involved. Call me a stickler but facts far outweigh heresay. I know we have some posters who are in the REC or have contacts that they have heard this or that but until I see the facts from the folks involved I can't believe it. I will change my tune when I do.