Alabama QBs in 2024

[BamaMoon]

Is 7 Sayin? He’s got a compact motion on that one throw.

Yes, quick as a hiccup. Makes Dan Marino look slow. 😁

 

[JDCrimson]

You might want to try harder on your tone...

If you still think that TS is a better QB than JM going into this season, then you are essentially second guessing CNS's decision after USF. A decision made after an extended QB competition running through the first three games of the regular season. In my view, that's a very arrogant stance to take considering that you are basing your opinion on a fraction of the information that is available to CNS. You don't attend practices, you don't have tape of closed door scrimmages, you just don't really have an objectively reasonable basis to question these types of coaching decisions. Yes, you are entitled to your opinion. I feel like I should be able to criticize dumb opinions (is "dumb" ok if it's not directed at anyone in particular? not trying to get suspended).

You asked whether erratic snaps impact the QB. Here's CNS's answer:

“And he was snapping the ball early sometimes and when we weren’t ready sometimes. That’s a huge issue for our quarterback.” Link

You asked whether protection impacts the QB. Here's CNS's answer:

"Once your quarterback starts getting affected a bit even though its not necessarily his fault completely, it's tough to play," Saban told McAfee. "We got to the point in the game where we didn't have a lot of confidence in being able to throw the ball, not because of our skill guys, but because of our inability to protect." Link

FWIW, I didn't start off being "petulant" -- but when you have the same uninformed response from 20 different people, none of which are providing any support for what they are saying, it gets extremally frustrating.

 

[landonew]

You also said milroe is on another level than young, would win back to back NC, a heisman, and would be considered one of the best alabama Qbs(that last one is really not going your way). Then proclaimed you don’t respect anyone that doesn’t share your same opinion on milroe. I just can’t take anything you say seriously if you honestly believe that milroe is on another level than young. You’ve been watching completely diffrent games than the rest of us if you still stand behind that take.

You’re misquoting me. I said JM gave his teams a better chance to win than BY. While premature and perhaps an overstatement, my intention was to elicit some positive dialogue comparing JM to other great Bama QBs. This was mildly successful. Probably wouldn’t have said that given a second chance.

I also said I didn’t respect anyone who claimed JM didn’t “deserve” to be the starter next year unless he won a national championship. There’s a competition for every position every year. Lot different than saying someone’s got to win a national championship to keep their job.

I was wrong about him winning B2B national championships. We lost in OT. I’m an enthusiastic fan, not Nostradamus.

Given a choice, I’d rather be an enthusiastic supporter of our players than to be pessimistic, negative, and entitled, constantly claiming that they aren’t good enough, can’t improve or accomplish their goals, and laminate over every setback. Not directing that at you or anyone else in particular, just a general observation that some of the criticism is derogatory and questions JM’s integrity.

 

[bamamc1]

Yeah, I am second guessing the QB decision.
No man is infallible or incapable of making a bad decision (see Pete Golding/BoB).

Snapping the ball when the QB isn't ready begs the question why the QB wasn't ready.
Neither you nor I know why and coach ain't saying so........

Look, if JM makes the adjustments he needs to make in the off season and can read a defense, etc when next season is here and he outright wins the qb battle then I'll be behind him 100%. But until he does I just can't see how we don't regress next season if he doesn't vastly improve on some things.

We can agree to disagree on this............🍻

Would you please or any other of the multitude that have posted explain: “Read the defense?” Play is signaled from the sideline, defense gives a look, read comes from the sideline. Jesus, do you people watch the game? This is getting hilarious.

 

[bamamc1]

There very well could be something to this. Early in the competition, the message we were hearing from Saban was something along the line of; play so well in practice that I don't have a choice but to play you and; someone needs to take the role. Then it kinda flipped to 'whoever wins the team will start'.

Now that last statement isn't really saying 'the best player' or anything like that.

Like it or not, Saban does lean toward seniority, maybe more than he should at times. Why else would Dalcourt have started the first few games or 22 and 21 and be given all the chances he's been given over the last two years. in 22, as soon as DD came out, the OL was way better. Magically, that also happened as soon as Roberts got OG role over DD mid 22. Clearly we can all look at that sample of work and know that SM was a better center in 21 (at least before the snap issues this year) and that Roberts is an order of magnitude better OG (this one isn't even remotely close, the ability difference of Roberts over DD is staggering). Same for ILB in 22 - was Jalen Moody really better than Lawson or was he just older? Lawson certainly played better when he was in and it eventually became so clear he took most of the snaps toward the end of the year. maybe the same is true for Marshall and Campbell this year at ILB. Marshall was older and earned more starts, but Campbell was more productive by far.

The first statements from Saban sound like messages to Simpson - i.e. since JM has seniority, you have to prove, absolutely, positively that not only are you better, but that you are WAY better. You have to make it so obvious that there's not even a question.

The whole 'winning the locker room' and the 'team choosing the QB' was just baffling to me honestly. I get that JM is very well liked by the players. He certainly comes across as genuine, likeable and charismatic when interviewed, and is probably moreso in person. I'm sure that makes any decision to have him not get the start very difficult and makes the degree of having to be better even higher.

That said, just watch this video, starting at 29 seconds. I know it's only a few throws, but just watch how much faster all the QBs not named Milroe get the ball out. Watch everyone's footwork to see how quickly (or in one players case - how slowly) they push back into the drop or motion. Look to see if they use the correct foot to push and start the drop. Look at the length and quickness of the steps to get to the throwing platform. Watch closely how fast most of them get the ball into the right grip, with the ball in the right spot so they are ready to pass.

When JM and TS swap spots (1st and 2nd throw) the difference is crazy. TS gets the ball out over a full second faster when he's on the right v when JM is on the right. When TS is on the left, the ball is out about .4 a second faster, even though TS got the snap later and higher. On the later static throw, TS is around .8 a second faster that JM. Sayin is even .3 a second faster than JM. This difference is NOT a new thing (other than the Sayin data point). It was clear from just about every throw from practice and the scrimmages that's been public going back into spring.

Why does that matter in practice reps? Because you play like you practice, and if a player can't execute these types of things, at game speed, even when there is no pressure, it's going to be incredibly hard to increase the speed at which you try to execute them in a game.

** for the timing, I started the clock at the snap, and stopped, as best I could when the ball came out. I timed each rep for each QB 4 times, and averaged that, to try to account for any type of slowness or quickness issues with me clicking start/stop.

Boy, throwing those routes against air is really tough. Good Lord.

 

[bamamc1]

JM won't be "battling" for the QB1 position after fall camp. In other news, Vegas opened with JM as co-favorite to win the Heisman. Link. In terms of the draft -- JM makes more $$ from NIL and merch as the starting QB at Alabama than he would as an NFL rookie picked outside the first two rounds. Link.

I’m glad that was Link instead of Lank. Some folks are offended by that. 😆

 

[irvingtontide]

You’re misquoting me. I said JM gave his teams a better chance to win than BY. While premature and perhaps an overstatement, my intention was to elicit some positive dialogue comparing JM to other great Bama QBs. This was mildly successful. Probably wouldn’t have said that given a second chance.

I also said I didn’t respect anyone who claimed JM didn’t “deserve” to be the starter next year unless he won a national championship. There’s a competition for every position every year. Lot different than saying someone’s got to win a national championship to keep their job.

I was wrong about him winning B2B national championships. We lost in OT. I’m an enthusiastic fan, not Nostradamus.

Given a choice, I’d rather be an enthusiastic supporter of our players than to be pessimistic, negative, and entitled, constantly claiming that they aren’t good enough, can’t improve or accomplish their goals, and laminate over every setback. Not directing that at you or anyone else in particular, just a general observation that some of the criticism is derogatory and questions JM’s integrity.

Not for nothing, BY walked away with a Heisman, an SEC Championship, and the #1 pick in the NFl Draft. He’s an accomplished player.

But he’s not JM. JM is on a different level and you will appreciate his greatness 13 months from now.

No


I don’t have respect for folks who question JM’s status as our starting QB. He’s earned that and I’m afraid that’s a dealbreaker for me. If that perspective earns a BAN, then I accept it.

I’m not asking to get banned but JM is the best QB this program has seen in a long while and I stand by that.

Are you sure about that you definitely said he was on another level than Bryce don’t walk it back now.
Im sorry but when a college player can’t hit the basic passes, read a defense, or go through progression regularly while playing at the premier college then his starting should be questioned. You came in here hot to be a spokesperson for milroe”because he needs a voice” and to tell people how wrong they are if they didn’t agree with you.

Who has questioned his integrity or said derogatory comments about milroe on TF?

 

[landonew]

[

Are you sure about that you definitely said he was on another level than Bryce don’t walk it back now.
Im sorry but when a college player can’t hit the basic passes, read a defense, or go through progression regularly while playing at the premier college then his starting should be questioned. You came in here hot to be a spokesperson for milroe”because he needs a voice” and to tell people how wrong they are if they didn’t agree with you.

JM is not at the

Are you sure about that you definitely said he was on another level than Bryce don’t walk it back now.
Im sorry but when a college player can’t hit the basic passes, read a defense, or go through progression regularly while playing at the premier college then his starting should be questioned. You came in here hot to be a spokesperson for milroe”because he needs a voice” and to tell people how wrong they are if they didn’t agree with you.

Who has questioned his integrity or said derogatory comments about milroe on TF?

This is what I said. Please provide support for your statement that I said he was on different "level."

 

[irvingtontide]

[


JM is not at the


This is what I said. Please provide support for your statement that I said he was on different "level."


View attachment 39755

 

[irvingtontide]

I quoted your post do you not even remember your own takes?

 

[gtgilbert]

Would you please or any other of the multitude that have posted explain: “Read the defense?” Play is signaled from the sideline, defense gives a look, read comes from the sideline. Jesus, do you people watch the game? This is getting hilarious.

Oh goodness - there is SO much more to what is happening than that; SO MUCH MORE.

Here's a very abbreviated sample of what a QB should do.

Pre-snap:

1. Play called in and relayed. Line up; QB should make sure we have all the right folks in all the right places.
2. QB should be able to look at D formation and alignment and make play adjustments (right now that is coming from sideline). <<<This is where the info from the sideline coaches stops and the QB has to do all this going forward >>>
3. initiate motions if any. QB should be using motions as another indicator of what the D is doing. Whether a player slides with, or players rotate over/back/down, etc all gives clues to the coverage or the run fits. QB might make adjustments based on this.
4. QB should do a box count and strength count. i.e. do they have more or less in the box than we do (i.e. should I audible run/pass if we have an advantage somewhere or we have a run called and they outnumber our blockers), and if they are overloaded to a side, do I flip a run play, or flip the pass read progressions on a pass play.
5. QB should check secondary alignment pre-snap. Depending on the play called there are usually 2 or 3 keys that can change the order or the route-read progressions. For example, if the CBs are pressing the LOS, but the slot is deep then check slot first. Or, is there a single deep safety or is it 2 deep. The first look post-snap is potentially different depending on that. The QB might even call out an audible based on our play versus what the secondary alignment is. In our typical offenses like we had with Tua/Mac/Bryce it's not even an audible sometimes. The WRs and the QB just know that if the coverage player does one thing, we do route X, but if the coverage player does something different, we do route Y. for Tua/Mac/Bryce, many routes were options/reads based on coverage and the option was both a pre-snap and post-snap read.
6. QB should check box alignment and help communicate what he sees to the OL, so they can make any needed adjustments to the protection or blocking assignments and scheme. <<The center should make the calls, but the QB needs to help with letting the center know all the alignment b/c once the center gets down over the ball, it can be hard to see exactly where LBs are, and the center also can't usually see if any secondary players are giving indicators of pressure or blitzes. >>
7. If the D makes a shift at any time, start back over at #4!!!!
8. Once the QB gets through step 6 and feels good about the call/set, execute the snap count.

So that's the short version of pre-snap. Like I said, SO MUCH more than how you framed it up.

Also post snap, there's a TON of decisions/reads a QB has to or should have to make, and those are all specific to each play and the defensive alignment.

 

[81usaf92]

[

There very well could be something to this. Early in the competition, the message we were hearing from Saban was something along the line of; play so well in practice that I don't have a choice but to play you and; someone needs to take the role. Then it kinda flipped to 'whoever wins the team will start'.

Now that last statement isn't really saying 'the best player' or anything like that.

Like it or not, Saban does lean toward seniority, maybe more than he should at times. Why else would Dalcourt have started the first few games or 22 and 21 and be given all the chances he's been given over the last two years. in 22, as soon as DD came out, the OL was way better. Magically, that also happened as soon as Roberts got OG role over DD mid 22. Clearly we can all look at that sample of work and know that SM was a better center in 21 (at least before the snap issues this year) and that Roberts is an order of magnitude better OG (this one isn't even remotely close, the ability difference of Roberts over DD is staggering). Same for ILB in 22 - was Jalen Moody really better than Lawson or was he just older? Lawson certainly played better when he was in and it eventually became so clear he took most of the snaps toward the end of the year. maybe the same is true for Marshall and Campbell this year at ILB. Marshall was older and earned more starts, but Campbell was more productive by far.

The first statements from Saban sound like messages to Simpson - i.e. since JM has seniority, you have to prove, absolutely, positively that not only are you better, but that you are WAY better. You have to make it so obvious that there's not even a question.

The whole 'winning the locker room' and the 'team choosing the QB' was just baffling to me honestly. I get that JM is very well liked by the players. He certainly comes across as genuine, likeable and charismatic when interviewed, and is probably moreso in person. I'm sure that makes any decision to have him not get the start very difficult and makes the degree of having to be better even higher.

That said, just watch this video, starting at 29 seconds. I know it's only a few throws, but just watch how much faster all the QBs not named Milroe get the ball out. Watch everyone's footwork to see how quickly (or in one players case - how slowly) they push back into the drop or motion. Look to see if they use the correct foot to push and start the drop. Look at the length and quickness of the steps to get to the throwing platform. Watch closely how fast most of them get the ball into the right grip, with the ball in the right spot so they are ready to pass.

When JM and TS swap spots (1st and 2nd throw) the difference is crazy. TS gets the ball out over a full second faster when he's on the right v when JM is on the right. When TS is on the left, the ball is out about .4 a second faster, even though TS got the snap later and higher. On the later static throw, TS is around .8 a second faster that JM. Sayin is even .3 a second faster than JM. This difference is NOT a new thing (other than the Sayin data point). It was clear from just about every throw from practice and the scrimmages that's been public going back into spring.

Why does that matter in practice reps? Because you play like you practice, and if a player can't execute these types of things, at game speed, even when there is no pressure, it's going to be incredibly hard to increase the speed at which you try to execute them in a game.

** for the timing, I started the clock at the snap, and stopped, as best I could when the ball came out. I timed each rep for each QB 4 times, and averaged that, to try to account for any type of slowness or quickness issues with me clicking start/stop.

I’ll say this. I went to the REC scrimmage in the fall but didn’t go in the spring because of prior engagements. During the fall scrimmage Milroe was the worst quarterback on the roster at throwing the ball and managing the offense by a country mile. Keep in mind this was a heavy passing scrimmage. Milroe started 1-12, and kept trying to hit the homer. It wasn’t until Saban told the defense to back off that he started hitting anything. Everyone that I personally know who went to the spring and last fall scrimmage said he pretty much displayed the same type of output in those that he did in the fall.

There is a such thing as a horrible practice guy and great game day guy but it’s rare. I’m not totally sure that is what we have here because Milroe looks pretty much like that he did in that scrimmage with some natural improvements with experience. I think bad defenses made Milroe look way better than what he probably was.

 

[colbysullivan]

Milroe improved steadily throughout the season this year. I think a lot of you are being too hard on Jalen. I expect he'll get even better this off season -- with coaching and drills.

Bama needs a better tougher OL. (Portal? Recruiting? Development? Any and/or all!)

That will fix a LOT of the issues.

He needs to transfer or go to the NFL. I’m tired of having a “Jalen Milroe problem”

 

[81usaf92]

You see this is where the dang sunshine pumpers are at their worst. They love to throw out ridiculous statements and start thread after thread about how everyone is an idiot so they should admit it publicly. But when their sand castle gets swept away with the waves of reality they don’t want to be held to the same standards as they have been holding everyone else while they have been front running.

You know I thought the craziest thing I was going to read this year was a poster saying that Bryce was the only Alabama quarterback that they ever felt nervous managing the offense… but someone had to suggest Milroe is better than Bryce so kudos for them.

 

[colbysullivan]

Next year, JM will be a second year starter. He’s improved and will continue to improve next year. How have we done “nothing” to improve at QB?

I know some folks on here have written-off JM as not being talented enough or capable of improving to the extent needed. That’s all well and good, but the folks actually making those decisions do not share those opinions.

It’s not about “being talented enough”. He’s not a QB. There‘s so many intangibles that a QB needs to succeed, and Milroe simply doesn’t have them.

 

[colbysullivan]

You see this is where the dang sunshine pumpers are at their worst. They love to throw out ridiculous statements and start thread after thread about how everyone is an idiot so they should admit it publicly. But when their sand castle gets swept away with the waves of reality they don’t want to be held to the same standards as they have been holding everyone else while they have been front running.

You know I thought the craziest thing I was going to read this year was a poster saying that Bryce was the only Alabama quarterback that they ever felt nervous managing the offense… but someone had to suggest Milroe is better than Bryce so kudos for them.

I don’t understand it either. Jalen Milroe is not a quarterback. The evidence could not be more clear, but people (including our coaches) refuse to see it. Saban should have told him to transfer after the 2022 season. I’m glad we won the SEC, but that is as far as we will go with Milroe, and that’s not good enough. If we go through spring practice again, and Milroe does just enough to keep the job, and Ty Simpson ends up transferring, I don’t think I can bear watching in 2024.

 

[CrimsonEyeshade]

[


I’ll say this. I went to the REC scrimmage in the fall but didn’t go in the spring because of prior engagements. During the fall scrimmage Milroe was the worst quarterback on the roster at throwing the ball and managing the offense by a country mile. Keep in mind this was a heavy passing scrimmage. Milroe started 1-12, and kept trying to hit the homer. It wasn’t until Saban told the defense to back off that he started hitting anything. Everyone that I personally know who went to the spring and last fall scrimmage said he pretty much displayed the same type of output in those that he did in the fall.

There is a such thing as a horrible practice guy and great game day guy but it’s rare. I’m not totally sure that is what we have here because Milroe looks pretty much like that he did in that scrimmage with some natural improvements with experience. I think bad defenses made Milroe look way better than what he probably was.

Your welcomed posts last year based on what you saw or heard from the scrimmages reported that Ty performed poorly as well, thus the scramble to bring in Buchner. So how about this:

Let's have an open competition and see who emerges. Best man wins. The continued arguments that this somehow did not happen last year appear based on run-away conjecture and borderline conspiracy theories that completely belie the tenets of the program Nick Saban has built.

And they make my stomach hurt. RTR.

 

[HighlandOak]

You see this is where the dang sunshine pumpers are at their worst. They love to throw out ridiculous statements and start thread after thread about how everyone is an idiot so they should admit it publicly. But when their sand castle gets swept away with the waves of reality they don’t want to be held to the same standards as they have been holding everyone else while they have been front running.

You know I thought the craziest thing I was going to read this year was a poster saying that Bryce was the only Alabama quarterback that they ever felt nervous managing the offense… but someone had to suggest Milroe is better than Bryce so kudos for them.

I didn't say Young was the only QB that made me feel that way, just that I didn't trust him as much as Tua and Mac when they dropped back to pass. And Milroe is definitely below Young in my comfort level rankings.

 

[crimsonaudio]

You know I thought the craziest thing I was going to read this year was a poster saying that Bryce was the only Alabama quarterback that they ever felt nervous managing the offense…

I remember that - still absolutely insane to me.

 

[81usaf92]

I didn't say Young was the only QB that made me feel that way, just that I didn't trust him as much as Tua and Mac when they dropped back to pass. And Milroe is definitely below Young in my comfort level rankings.

I still have questions about it, but it’s nowhere as out there as people acting like Milroe is the greatest quarterback of all time at Alabama.