All-Time Baseball Team - your favorite team

selmaborntidefan

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Thanks - that was the name that I just couldn't dig out of my head. Candelaria was as good a pitcher as I have ever seen in those ugly uniforms
I think both y'all are right.

It's between Canedlaria and Babe Adams, who holds a bunch of Pirates records...and he pitched in the 1909 World Series. Not advocating recency bias, but the extremes of the game have closed over the years since then. For two years in the mid-70s, Candy Man was one of the ten best pitchers in the game.


========================

24 times in the regular MLB someone hit over .400.

It hasn't been done since 1941.

That doesn't mean the hitters of long ago were great, it means the extremes prevailed.

How many guys have won 300 games?
24 players have won 300 games (or more).
HALF of those were prior to 1941 (Pearl Harbor)

Since the closer role became so defined in the LaRussa era, guess how many guys have topped 300 wins?

Five - Johnson, Maddux, Glavine, Clemens, and Nolan Ryan

Verlander has 244 wins.
Zack Greinke has 223.

Both are 39 years old.

There's no way in hell Greinke is getting 300 wins. Verlander can get it....but he needs 3 more seasons like this past one plus two more wins to make it.

Commentary over.
 
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selmaborntidefan

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Thanks - that was the name that I just couldn't dig out of my head. Candelaria was as good a pitcher as I have ever seen in those ugly uniforms
Kiner's reputation was sullied by Branch Rickey when he was the Pittsburgh GM.
Rickey was notorious for sending players away when they were at their peaks over just going over that peak - and replacing them with younger and, of course, cheaper players.

Kiner was popular especially because he had challenged Ruth's single-season HR record. Rickey sullied his reputation so he could trade him, which he did, to the Cubs as part of a package deal that included Joe Garagiola. The Pirates had won only 42 games his last full season so - naturally - Kiner got the blame, which is like blaming Dale Murphy for how bad the 1980s Braves were.
 

selmaborntidefan

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I think we can have a very interesting discussion on this one. Reminder that the bold are in the HOF.

CHICAGO CUBS
C - Gabby Hartnett
1B - Frank Chance
2B - Ryne Sandberg
SS - Ernie Banks
3B - Ron Santo

RF - Sammy Sosa
CF - Andy Pafko
LF - Billy Williams
DH - Hack Wilson

Starting Pitchers:
Greg Maddux
Fergie Jenkins
Three-Finger Brown
Grover Cleveland Alexander

Closer:
Bruce Sutter
Lee Smith

Randy Myers

OK, there's a couple of things we can discuss on this one. It partly depends on whether or not we're doing this in a pretend "they're going to take on the other teams" or not...because Maddux can't play for two teams nor can Alexander. If this is just an honor thing then fine.

1) Do you choose Pafko or Wilson for your centerfielder?

Wilson is a guy in the HOF who has no business in the Hall, the Roger Maris of RBI guys (the record still stands). Wilson got in as a result of the Frankie Frisch favoritism Veteran's Committee of 1971-81 that threw a bunch of his old teammates into the Hall - which made Wilson a good candidate once you compared him to the lousy choices. He has a higher BA - because he played in an era when BAs were higher. He was also an unreliable drunk, though he's maybe - MAYBE 5% better hitter than Pafko, who was the better defensive outfielder.

2) Who do you choose for your closer?
Three outstanding choices right there - although I personally thought Sutter in his prime was the best of the three. Smith was a stats compiler who benefited from the game change to the one-inning closer. Sutter won the CYA in 1979 as a closer with 37 saves (an insane total back then) - and 38 times in his 62 appearances, he got at least four outs, including one outing (May 10, 1979) where he pitched five innings.

Also to note - Eckersley pitched for the Cubs but was no longer a starter and wasn't the closer, either.

3) Do you play Ernie Banks at short or at first?

I said short. That's what he's remembered as...but he actually played more games at first base.

4) Does Maddux get to be on the team?

Maddux pitched six years for the Cubs, which included an 18-win season, a 19-win season on a pennant winner, at least 15 wins every year after his first full season - and the 1992 CYA before he left for Atlanta. He started nearly 300 games for the Cubs and won 133 for some lousy teams. But does he get on the Cubs AND the Braves or not? (I can see this either way).
 
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TexasBama

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I think we can have a very interesting discussion on this one. Reminder that the bold are in the HOF.

CHICAGO CUBS
C - Gabby Hartnett
1B - Frank Chance
2B - Ryne Sandberg
SS - Ernie Banks
3B - Ron Santo

RF - Sammy Sosa
CF - Andy Pafko
LF - Billy Williams
DH - Hack Wilson

Starting Pitchers:
Greg Maddux
Fergie Jenkins
Three-Finger Brown
Grover Cleveland Alexander

Closer:
Bruce Sutter
Lee Smith

Randy Myers

OK, there's a couple of things we can discuss on this one. It partly depends on whether or not we're doing this in a pretend "they're going to take on the other teams" or not...because Maddux can't play for two teams nor can Alexander. If this is just an honor thing then fine.

1) Do you choose Pafko or Wilson for your centerfielder?

Wilson is a guy in the HOF who has no business in the Hall, the Roger Maris of RBI guys (the record still stands). Wilson got in as a result of the Frankie Frisch favoritism Veteran's Committee of 1971-81 that threw a bunch of his old teammates into the Hall - which made Wilson a good candidate once you compared him to the lousy choices. He has a higher BA - because he played in an era when BAs were higher. He was also an unreliable drunk, though he's maybe - MAYBE 5% better hitter than Pafko, who was the better defensive outfielder.

2) Who do you choose for your closer?
Three outstanding choices right there - although I personally thought Sutter in his prime was the best of the three. Smith was a stats compiler who benefited from the game change to the one-inning closer. Sutter won the CYA in 1979 as a closer with 37 saves (an insane total back then) - and 38 times in his 62 appearances, he got at least four outs, including one outing (May 10, 1979) where he pitched five innings.

Also to note - Eckersley pitched for the Cubs but was no longer a starter and wasn't the closer, either.

3) Do you play Ernie Banks at short or at first?

I said short. That's what he's remembered as...but he actually played more games at first base.

4) Does Maddux get to be on the team?

Maddux pitched six years for the Cubs, which included an 18-win season, a 19-win season on a pennant winner, at least 15 wins every year after his first full season - and the 1992 CYA before he left for Atlanta. He started nearly 300 games for the Cubs and won 133 for some lousy teams. But does he get on the Cubs AND the Braves or not? (I can see this either way).
I guess you have to get Wilson's bat in there so DH is the place.

If you don't like Sosa's steroid situation, you can put Andre Dawson in RF. He was an All-Star his years in Chicago.

Definitely Sutter as closer.

I'd pick Cap Anson (if we're using a time machine) or Anthony Rizzo at first base. But Chance could run,
 
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selmaborntidefan

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I guess you have to get Wilson's bat in there so DH is the place.

If you don't like Sosa's steroid situation, you can put Andre Dawson in RF. He was an All-Star his years in Chicago.

Definitely Sutter as closer.

I'd pick Cap Anson (if we're using a time machine) or Anthony Rizzo at first base. But Chance could run,

First base is also difficult. Chance was considered "great" and got most of the votes after the first HOF class was inducted in all the polls, you could go with Rizzo, Anson, or even Mark Grace.

I'm going to quote Bill James, the baseball guru, at length here because he covers it so well.

===================

The Chicago Cubs in 1906 won 116 games. This remains the record for wins in one season.

The Cubs also won 223 games in two years (1906–1907), which is the record for wins in a two-season span, and 322 games over three years (1906–1908), which is the record for wins over a three-season span.

They won 426 games over a four-season span (1906–1909), which is the record for wins over a four-year span, and they won 530 games over a five-season span (1906–1910), which is the record for wins over a period of five years.

The Cubs won 622 games over a six-year period (1905–1910), which is a record, by far.

The only other team to win 600 games in a six-year span was the Cardinals of the 1940s, although many teams have lost 600 games in six years, proving that it is easier to stay in last place than it is to stay in first.

The Cubs won 715 games in seven years (1904–1910); this also is a record. They won 807 games in an eight-year period (1904–1911), which, again, is a record; the Yankees won 799 between 1936 and 1943. They won 898 games between 1904 and 1912, which is a record for wins over a nine-year period, and they won 986 between 1904 and 1913, which is a record for wins over a ten-year period.


It has become common to bash the selection of Tinker, Evers, and Chance to the Hall of Fame, saying that Franklin P. Adams’ famous poem put them in. It is easy to quote their batting statistics, which are but marginally impressive, to show that the trio does not belong—and, indeed, they may not. But at the same time, this is perilously near an absurd argument, to wit: Tinker, Evers, and Chance were not really great ballplayers, they merely happened to win a huge number of games. The definition of a great ballplayer is a ballplayer who helps his team to win a lot of games.

I go back and forth on this issue; sometimes I think they were great players, sometimes I think not. But if you’re going to say that these guys don’t belong in the Hall of Fame, it seems to me, you have to deal somehow with the phenomenal success of their team. This team won more games, over any period of years, than the Yankees with Ruth and Gehrig, more games than the Dodgers with Robinson, Reese, Snider, and Campy, more games than the Reds with Bench, Morgan, Rose, and Concepcion—more games than anybody. When you start explaining their wins, as Ricky Ricardo would say, you’ve got a lot of ‘splaining to do.

Is the rest of the team so great that no weight need be carried by these three players?

It is not. The catcher, Johnny Kling, was good, but probably not as good as any of the three. Third baseman Harry Steinfeldt was in the same range. No outfielder on the team was Ty Cobb or Babe Ruth or Mickey Mantle; none was even Tris Speaker or Al Simmons or Duke Snider.

When you look carefully at the Cubs of those years, it is impossible to avoid the conclusion that this team won more games with infield defense than any other team in the history of baseball. First of all, they won more games than any other team in the history of baseball. And they didn’t do it with .350 hitters, and they didn’t do it with 40 homer men.

Their pitching was good. Three Finger Brown was great; the rest of the staff was good. But it is also apparent that the Cubs’ defense was so good that anybody they put on the mound was effective. Nineteen pitchers pitched 150 or more innings for the Cubs in their ten best years, 1904–1913. Seventeen of those 19 pitchers posted ERAs below 3.00, including guys like Chick Fraser, Buttons Briggs, and Orval Overall who had never had comparable success with other teams. Even Three Finger Brown had been acquired by the Cubs after posting a 9–13 record for the Cardinals as a rookie in 1903.

The essential question is this: If Tinker, Evers, and Chance were not great players, how do you explain the success of this team? The Yankees of 1936–1945 had DiMaggio, Dickey, Gehrig for a couple of years, Red Ruffing, Lefty Gomez, Lazzeri, and Joe Gordon at second, Red Rolfe, Tommy Henrich, Johnny Murphy, George Selkirk, Frankie Crosetti, and numerous other stars. The Yankees had enough success to justify the brilliant reputations those men still enjoy—but they couldn’t match the win totals of the Cubs.
 
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TexasBama

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First base is also difficult. Chance was considered "great" and got most of the votes after the first HOF class was inducted in all the polls, you could go with Rizzo, Anson, or even Mark Grace.

I'm going to quote Bill James, the baseball guru, at length here because he covers it so well.

===================

The Chicago Cubs in 1906 won 116 games. This remains the record for wins in one season.

The Cubs also won 223 games in two years (1906–1907), which is the record for wins in a two-season span, and 322 games over three years (1906–1908), which is the record for wins over a three-season span.

They won 426 games over a four-season span (1906–1909), which is the record for wins over a four-year span, and they won 530 games over a five-season span (1906–1910), which is the record for wins over a period of five years.

The Cubs won 622 games over a six-year period (1905–1910), which is a record, by far.

The only other team to win 600 games in a six-year span was the Cardinals of the 1940s, although many teams have lost 600 games in six years, proving that it is easier to stay in last place than it is to stay in first.

The Cubs won 715 games in seven years (1904–1910); this also is a record. They won 807 games in an eight-year period (1904–1911), which, again, is a record; the Yankees won 799 between 1936 and 1943. They won 898 games between 1904 and 1912, which is a record for wins over a nine-year period, and they won 986 between 1904 and 1913, which is a record for wins over a ten-year period.


It has become common to bash the selection of Tinker, Evers, and Chance to the Hall of Fame, saying that Franklin P. Adams’ famous poem put them in. It is easy to quote their batting statistics, which are but marginally impressive, to show that the trio does not belong—and, indeed, they may not. But at the same time, this is perilously near an absurd argument, to wit: Tinker, Evers, and Chance were not really great ballplayers, they merely happened to win a huge number of games. The definition of a great ballplayer is a ballplayer who helps his team to win a lot of games.

I go back and forth on this issue; sometimes I think they were great players, sometimes I think not. But if you’re going to say that these guys don’t belong in the Hall of Fame, it seems to me, you have to deal somehow with the phenomenal success of their team. This team won more games, over any period of years, than the Yankees with Ruth and Gehrig, more games than the Dodgers with Robinson, Reese, Snider, and Campy, more games than the Reds with Bench, Morgan, Rose, and Concepcion—more games than anybody. When you start explaining their wins, as Ricky Ricardo would say, you’ve got a lot of ‘splaining to do.

Is the rest of the team so great that no weight need be carried by these three players?

It is not. The catcher, Johnny Kling, was good, but probably not as good as any of the three. Third baseman Harry Steinfeldt was in the same range. No outfielder on the team was Ty Cobb or Babe Ruth or Mickey Mantle; none was even Tris Speaker or Al Simmons or Duke Snider.

When you look carefully at the Cubs of those years, it is impossible to avoid the conclusion that this team won more games with infield defense than any other team in the history of baseball. First of all, they won more games than any other team in the history of baseball. And they didn’t do it with .350 hitters, and they didn’t do it with 40 homer men.

Their pitching was good. Three Finger Brown was great; the rest of the staff was good. But it is also apparent that the Cubs’ defense was so good that anybody they put on the mound was effective. Nineteen pitchers pitched 150 or more innings for the Cubs in their ten best years, 1904–1913. Seventeen of those 19 pitchers posted ERAs below 3.00, including guys like Chick Fraser, Buttons Briggs, and Orval Overall who had never had comparable success with other teams. Even Three Finger Brown had been acquired by the Cubs after posting a 9–13 record for the Cardinals as a rookie in 1903.

The essential question is this: If Tinker, Evers, and Chance were not great players, how do you explain the success of this team? The Yankees of 1936–1945 had DiMaggio, Dickey, Gehrig for a couple of years, Red Ruffing, Lefty Gomez, Lazzeri, and Joe Gordon at second, Red Rolfe, Tommy Henrich, Johnny Murphy, George Selkirk, Frankie Crosetti, and numerous other stars. The Yankees had enough success to justify the brilliant reputations those men still enjoy—but they couldn’t match the win totals of the Cubs.
You maybe could explain the Cubs long World Series drought on lack of pitching. You have to go back 100 years for half their all-time staff. Even their latest WS win, the staff was comparatively pedestrian. Lester is the only guy I remember.
 
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tusks_n_raider

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Imo Greg Maddux is pretty equally a Brave and a Cub and both teams have the right to claim him and have him on their All-Time Teams.

Even Greg himself couldn't choose between the two when entering the HOF and his Plaque/Bust has no Logo on the Cap.

Though it would also be true that 'Atlanta' Greg was PRIME Maddux and would be slightly better than 'Chicago' Greg if we tried to have some kind of separation.
 

TexasBama

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Imo Greg Maddux is pretty equally a Brave and a Cub and both teams have the right to claim him and have him on their All-Time Teams.

Even Greg himself couldn't choose between the two when entering the HOF and his Plaque/Bust has no Logo on the Cap.

Though it would also be true that 'Atlanta' Greg was PRIME Maddux and would be slightly better than 'Chicago' Greg if we tried to have some kind of separation.
Roids aside, Roger Clemens is another guy that could be considered all-time on more than one team (Jays and Red Sox).
 
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tusks_n_raider

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Roids aside, Roger Clemens is another guy that could be considered all-time on more than one team (Jays and Red Sox).
I can't put the Roids aside and especially because we are talking about a Power Pitcher.

Clemens on the Red Sox is legit.

Clemens on the Yankees, Blue Jays, and Astros is a Cheater. Massive Cheater.
 
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selmaborntidefan

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CHICAGO WHITE SOX ALL-TIME TEAM

C- Carlton Fisk
1B - Frank Thomas
2B - Eddie Collins
SS - Luke Appling or Luis Aparicio

3B - Robin Ventura
RF - Harold Baines
CF - Larry Doby
LF - Minnie Monoso

Starting Pitchers
Ed Walsh
Ted Lyons

Chris Sale
Mark Buherle

Relievers
Wilbur Wood
Hoyt Wilhelm

Closer

Bobby Thigpen

1) I excluded Dick Allen just as I did with Philly and for the same reason. He did win the 1972 MVP, but he was a problem child, and I don't want the guy near my team. If you put him at first, Thomas can DH.

2) I also excluded for even worse reasons than Allen...the Black Sox, most notably Eddie Cicotte and Shoeless Joe Jackson, who were probably HOF players if not for their willingness to throw ballgames. Jackson for sure, Cicotte likely (Cicotte had similar to but better numbers than Drysdale; 4 of the 10 most similar pitchers to him are in the HOF and another, Carl Mays, probably should be).

3) Nellie Fox is my utility infielder along with either Appling or Aparicio, whoever doesn't start at short.

4) Yes - the White Sox pitching has always been THAT bad, which is why they've won ONE World Series in the last 105 years.

5) Yes - their third base has been THAT bad since Buck Weaver was banned that Ventura is the guy.
 
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tusks_n_raider

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CHICAGO WHITE SOX ALL-TIME TEAM

C- Carlton Fisk
1B - Frank Thomas
2B - Eddie Collins
SS - Luke Appling or Luis Aparicio

3B - Robin Ventura
RF - Harold Baines
CF - Larry Doby
LF - Minnie Monoso

Starting Pitchers
Ed Walsh
Ted Lyons

Chris Sale
Mark Buherle

Relievers
Wilbur Wood
Hoyt Wilhelm

Closer

Bobby Thigpen

1) I excluded Dick Allen just as I did with Philly and for the same reason. He did win the 1972 MVP, but he was a problem child, and I don't want the guy near my team. If you put him at first, Thomas can DH.

2) I also excluded for even worse reasons than Allen...the Black Sox, most notably Eddie Cicotte and Shoeless Joe Jackson, who were probably HOF players if not for their willingness to throw ballgames. Jackson for sure, Cicotte likely (Cicotte had similar to but better numbers than Drysdale; 4 of the 10 most similar pitchers to him are in the HOF and another, Carl Mays, probably should be).

3) Nellie Fox is my utility infielder along with either Appling or Aparicio, whoever doesn't start at short.

4) Yes - the White Sox pitching has always been THAT bad, which is why they've won ONE World Series in the last 105 years.

5) Yes - their third base has been THAT bad since Buck Weaver was banned that Ventura is the guy.
I'd add Billy Pierce somewhere in the Starting rotation and/or probably taking Sale's spot

I feel like Nellie Fox has to get on somewhere but not over Collins I agree....DH maybe?

At CF I'd pick Chet Lemon or Lance Johnson but that's maybe a favorite for me and not an absolute best.

A couple other Honorable mentions that could be DH candidates would be Paul Konerko and Jose Abreau.

Other than that, that's a pretty solid list Selma and I say that with the White Sox being my AL Team.
 
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TexasBama

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CHICAGO WHITE SOX ALL-TIME TEAM

C- Carlton Fisk
1B - Frank Thomas
2B - Eddie Collins
SS - Luke Appling or Luis Aparicio

3B - Robin Ventura
RF - Harold Baines
CF - Larry Doby
LF - Minnie Monoso

Starting Pitchers
Ed Walsh
Ted Lyons

Chris Sale
Mark Buherle

Relievers
Wilbur Wood
Hoyt Wilhelm

Closer

Bobby Thigpen

1) I excluded Dick Allen just as I did with Philly and for the same reason. He did win the 1972 MVP, but he was a problem child, and I don't want the guy near my team. If you put him at first, Thomas can DH.

2) I also excluded for even worse reasons than Allen...the Black Sox, most notably Eddie Cicotte and Shoeless Joe Jackson, who were probably HOF players if not for their willingness to throw ballgames. Jackson for sure, Cicotte likely (Cicotte had similar to but better numbers than Drysdale; 4 of the 10 most similar pitchers to him are in the HOF and another, Carl Mays, probably should be).

3) Nellie Fox is my utility infielder along with either Appling or Aparicio, whoever doesn't start at short.

4) Yes - the White Sox pitching has always been THAT bad, which is why they've won ONE World Series in the last 105 years.

5) Yes - their third base has been THAT bad since Buck Weaver was banned that Ventura is the guy.
I would put Allen at first, Thomas at DH. Man, the pitching. When you at least think of John Garland for their all-time team, it's bad.

Definitely Appling at short. Much better OBP and OPS.

Ventura is no slouch. A notably better OBP and OPS than Brooks Robinson, but 4 gold gloves vs 15.
 
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selmaborntidefan

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I would put Allen at first, Thomas at DH. Man, the pitching. When you at least think of John Garland for their all-time team, it's bad.

Definitely Appling at short. Much better OBP and OPS.

Ventura is no slouch. A notably better OBP and OPS than Brooks Robinson, but 4 gold gloves vs 15.
I'm not surprised we disagree on Allen (again!). As I said - a good player when he wanted to be, but a guy whose mood issues and alcoholism splintered every team with which he ever played, too.

This pitching is almost as bad as the Pirates was, LOL!!!
 

selmaborntidefan

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I can't put the Roids aside and especially because we are talking about a Power Pitcher.

Clemens on the Red Sox is legit.

Clemens on the Yankees, Blue Jays, and Astros is a Cheater. Massive Cheater.
I know different folks see it different ways, and I'm okay with that.

I'd be harder on Clemens and Bonds IF - key point here - they were the only guys using.

But we know that not only were THEY using, so, too, were a huge chunk of their teammates and opponents. At least with steroids - unlike Allen's moodiness - I can say, "Yeah, they were trying to gain and edge to WIN the game and make more money."

To me, the steroids thing with them has become like the fact Ben Johnson gets singled out because HE WON the gold medal at the 1988 Summer Olympics and tested positive. All told, six of the eight guys in that race eventually tested positive for something banned (including the cover-up of Lewis at that same Olympics). I have a much bigger problem with the self-righteousness and hypocrisy of Carl Lewis than I do that Ben Johnson doped like the other guys.

Ben doped.
Carl doped and pretended he didn't and that he was somehow cheated.

But back to baseball.

There are two positions regarding steroids with which I'm okay:
1) ALL OF THEM ARE OUT of the Hall
2) all who meet stats standards (e.g. Bonds, Clemens, Palmeiro, Sosa, McGwire) are in.

I have a serious problem with, "well, Clemens and Bonds were HOFers BEFORE they started using."

Because how do we know when they started using?
 
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CrimsonTheory

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For me personally on the Cubs

C: Harnett
1B: Chance
2B: Sandberg
3B: Santo
LF: Williams
CF:
I think we can have a very interesting discussion on this one. Reminder that the bold are in the HOF.

CHICAGO CUBS
C - Gabby Hartnett
1B - Frank Chance
2B - Ryne Sandberg
SS - Ernie Banks
3B - Ron Santo

RF - Sammy Sosa
CF - Andy Pafko
LF - Billy Williams
DH - Hack Wilson

Starting Pitchers:
Greg Maddux
Fergie Jenkins
Three-Finger Brown
Grover Cleveland Alexander

Closer:
Bruce Sutter
Lee Smith

Randy Myers
Nearly the same post I was going to make with a few differences:

1. Rizzo over Chance. Chance at Utility. Chance could play C and OF along with 1B.
2. I'd leave off Randy Myers, merely because he was in CHI for three years but he is more famous for Cubs fans for having a woman run out on the field and hugged him than anything he did for the Cubs. Not to mentioned he was one of the guys the Cubs signed after letting Maddux walk, so that did not help matters. Make no mistake he was not bad at all for the Cubs, he just never felt like a Cub. I'd put Ryan Dempster and/or Pedro Strop (people forget how good Petey was coming over from Baltimore in the Arrieta trade yet you could argue he had the better career in CHI than Arrieta) on the Cubs all time staff before I put Myers.

Otherwise, that would be my all time Cubs team. Bryant/Grace and Contreras would clearly be on that team's bench.
 
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TexasBama

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The Other Team All People With Brains Hate

New York Yankees
1B Lou Gehrig
2B Tony Lazzeri
3B Alex Rodriguez
SS Derek Jeter
C Yogi Berra
LF Charlie Keller
CF Mickey Mantle
RF Babe Ruth
DH Joe Dimaggio (because reasons)

Pitchers
Whitey Ford
Ron Guidry
Red Ruffing
Lefty Gomez

Relief Pitcher
Mariano Rivera
 
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TexasBama

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Brooklyn/LA Dodgers

1B Gil Hodges
2B Jackie Robinson
3B Ron Cey
SS Pee Wee Reese
C Roy Campanella
LF Zach Wheat
CF Duke Snider
RF Dixie Walker
DH Gary Sheffield (before he tailed off) or Babe Herman

Pitchers
Sandy Koufax
Don Drysdale
Clayton Kershaw
Don Sutton

Relief Pitcher
Eric Gagne or Kenley Jansen
 
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selmaborntidefan

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54
MINNESOTA TWINS/WASHINGTON SENATORS I ALL-TIME TEAM (NEED HELP!!!)

(For those who forget - or don't know - there were TWO Washington Senators franchises that played several seasons. The first one moved to Minnesota in 1961 and became the Twins. That same year, the SECOND Washington Senators franchise was given to DC and moved in 1972 to Dallas the Texas Rangers).

C- Joe Mauer
1B - Joe Judge/Kent Hrbek/Mickey Vernon/Harmon Killebrew/Vic Power
2B - Rod Carew
SS - Cecil Travis/Roy Smalley Jr (????)
3B - Harmon Killebrew or Gary Gaetti
RF - Tony Oliva
CF - Kirby Puckett
LF - Goose Goslin

DH - probably Killebrew or maybe Torii Hunter

Starting Rotation:
Walter Johnson
Bert Blyleven
Jim Kaat

Johan Santana
Jim Perry

Middle Relief:
Mudcat Grant
Camilo Pascual
Eddie Guardado

Closer:
Rick Aguilera

1) I lean towards Hrbek at first base.

You can argue Judge had better numbers, and he did. Slightly. Because he played in the high average late 20s and early 30s. He didn't face relief specialists. He didn't play on turf. Power is your late inning defensive replacement if we're on a 25-man roster.

But what think the rest of you?

2) Where do you put Killebrew?

DH obviously if that's the game. But he can play first, third, and outfield - albeit he's no great shakes defensively at any of those. Gaetti won four Gold Gloves at third, so you'd want him there defensively (he also drilled 30 homers a year in his prime years).

3) The pitching staff - unbelievably - is one of the best you'll ever see.

3 HOFers, a borderline case, and a guy (Santana) who won two CYAs and was finished at 31 who would be in the Hall if not for that. Frank Viola was damn good for a couple of years, too.

Thoughts?
 

selmaborntidefan

TideFans Legend
Mar 31, 2000
36,432
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287
54
The Other Team All People With Brains Hate

New York Yankees
1B Lou Gehrig
2B Tony Lazzeri
3B Alex Rodriguez
SS Derek Jeter
C Yogi Berra
LF Charlie Keller
CF Mickey Mantle
RF Babe Ruth
DH Joe Dimaggio (because reasons)

Pitchers
Whitey Ford
Ron Guidry
Red Ruffing
Lefty Gomez

Relief Pitcher
Mariano Rivera
Let's chat.

New York Yankees

2B - Lazzeri or Joe Gordon
3B Alex Rodriguez or Graig Nettles
LF Joe DiMaggio
DH Reggie Jackson

(I agree with you on Lazzeri and A-Rod, though)

Pitchers
Whitey Ford
Ron Guidry
Red Ruffing
Lefty Gomez

Relief Pitcher
Mariano Rivera


Pitching staff is outstanding.
 

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