If we show up against Auburn, this isn't a scenario, which I think is at least in part Jess's point.
JessN: Auburn wrap-up: Another miracle finish, because Alabama couldn’t finish
- Thread starter JessN
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It's not a scenario if its not blown up into some monumental, earth shattering loss. What has Awburn won? A regular season game. What have we won? Three out of four titles. It's a loss but let's not predict the future of the program over it.
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saban is 4-3 against auburn while at bama. while not a "great" record, it is far from kryptonite.
Since 2008, Bama has entered every November as a national title contender, even in 2010. We've won 3, so Coach Saban is batting .500 when it comes to crystal footballs. I am going to respectfully disagree with those who think last night was more than just a loss. It isn't about formations or opponents or emotions, it's about executing better than the other guy. We didn't do that. If we start approaching Auburn differently, then it isn't about us anymore, and I don't think that's the right answer.
Jess agree with your post and don't see it as an attack on CNS. The loss is squarely on his shoulders He is a big man and will figure it out... I also agree that if he can't handle the hard questions then perhaps he has his mind other places... I don't think that is the legacy he wants to leave behind. He has built a great program from the ashes of probation. I applaud him but the talk coming from his camp about lack of appreciation needs to stop along with the rumors about the special pressure he is under... He had an off night and this is the only loss in seven years I as a fan pen on him do I want him gone - no but I do want this idea of he is above criticism to go away...
RTR!!!
RTR!!!
While I'm not arguing that the team didn't seem ready for this game, we missed four FGs, dropped a TD pass in the end zone and overthrew a couple other passes that might have ended up scores if connected. Add in the phantom false start call on the one FG we DID make. Each one of those is an execution issue and cannot be laid at the coaching staff's feet. Any one of those go our way and today we're talking about the fact that the team gutted out a tremendous win in an extremely hostile environment against a top 4 team.
This was a total team loss. It happens. This team has been teetering on the brink on several occasions this season (OL issues, ball security issues, defensive pass coverage issues, etc); and finally fell off the edge last night. It stings for sure; but, make no mistake, we're in a heck of a lot better place than we were 7-8 years ago. Name one football program in America who wouldn't trade places with our program.
Coach Saban is the same coach he has been. He and Coach Smart definitely need to figure out how to stop these new spread/HUNH/Junk offenses. It's been a problem for us and this style of offense isn't going away any time soon. Got to figure out a way to get our OL performing back to the levels of 2008-2012.
The Tide had a bad game and it cost them. With A LOT on the line. Plain and simple. Worst opportune time. However, it's not the end of the world.
This was a total team loss. It happens. This team has been teetering on the brink on several occasions this season (OL issues, ball security issues, defensive pass coverage issues, etc); and finally fell off the edge last night. It stings for sure; but, make no mistake, we're in a heck of a lot better place than we were 7-8 years ago. Name one football program in America who wouldn't trade places with our program.
Coach Saban is the same coach he has been. He and Coach Smart definitely need to figure out how to stop these new spread/HUNH/Junk offenses. It's been a problem for us and this style of offense isn't going away any time soon. Got to figure out a way to get our OL performing back to the levels of 2008-2012.
The Tide had a bad game and it cost them. With A LOT on the line. Plain and simple. Worst opportune time. However, it's not the end of the world.
Not counting 2007, the two times AU has beat us they've been a combined 25-1, SEC champ, and BCSNC and could be possibly end up being 27-1, 2 time SEC champ, and 2 time BCSNC. Like it or not, these 2 teams are great football teams, and both times they have played us after us embarrassing them the 2 seasons before. All the coaching in world can't always make up for the emotion and will of the players, and that is what makes CFB great.
Sure, mistakes were by CNS and he knows that. One single play could have changed either one of these games, and we would have won.
Do you remember the 2008 and 2011 games? We physically whipped AU worse than anybody on their schedule in those 2 years. Our players were playing for revenge and didn't give an offensive TD in either year. Those AU teams weren't great, but not nearly as bad as we made them look.
The bottom line is our players played like were afraid to lose and AU's players played like the refused to lose. That happens sometimes, and being called little brother and all the other names that Bama fans, the media, and even fans of other teams call them helps to motivate them. I don't know if any coach can fully get his players to overcome that when the opposing team is playing with a do or die attitude.
They beat up big brother. Their season is made no matter happens going forward. Hopefully going forward, our players will give them the respect they deserve and play them all out. Also hopefully our coaches will be aggressive and pull out all the stops.
Sure, mistakes were by CNS and he knows that. One single play could have changed either one of these games, and we would have won.
Do you remember the 2008 and 2011 games? We physically whipped AU worse than anybody on their schedule in those 2 years. Our players were playing for revenge and didn't give an offensive TD in either year. Those AU teams weren't great, but not nearly as bad as we made them look.
The bottom line is our players played like were afraid to lose and AU's players played like the refused to lose. That happens sometimes, and being called little brother and all the other names that Bama fans, the media, and even fans of other teams call them helps to motivate them. I don't know if any coach can fully get his players to overcome that when the opposing team is playing with a do or die attitude.
They beat up big brother. Their season is made no matter happens going forward. Hopefully going forward, our players will give them the respect they deserve and play them all out. Also hopefully our coaches will be aggressive and pull out all the stops.
I find it interesting that many of the same folks who, for the last few seasons, have been beating the "move AU to the Eastern Division and drop the annual rivalry" drum are now insistent that Auburn is our biggest rival and beating them annually is priority one.
As far as I'm aware, since the conference split into divisions in 1992 yesterday marked the first time that the Iron Bowl actually decided the West. And really, it's been relatively rare for both teams to enter the game on any sort of equal footing during that time frame....years like 2012, 2004, 2000, 1998 and 1997 have been more prevalent. Not sure how anyone can argue that the Iron Bowl has perennially been the gateway for further success for either team.
If anything, the LSU game has more often decided the Western Division winner in recent years. And if Nick's goal (and mandate) is to win championships, who could fault him for making that his big "rivalry" game?
I'm not trying to give Nick a free pass for yesterday - he'll garner plenty of well-deserved criticism for some puzzling decisions. But good grief, folks. Step back, breathe and consider the run we've had. Then consider the incoming signing class. Then consider our staff's excellent track record of player development, offseason adjustments and tweaks, and performance in "revenge" games. It will all be OK.
As far as I'm aware, since the conference split into divisions in 1992 yesterday marked the first time that the Iron Bowl actually decided the West. And really, it's been relatively rare for both teams to enter the game on any sort of equal footing during that time frame....years like 2012, 2004, 2000, 1998 and 1997 have been more prevalent. Not sure how anyone can argue that the Iron Bowl has perennially been the gateway for further success for either team.
If anything, the LSU game has more often decided the Western Division winner in recent years. And if Nick's goal (and mandate) is to win championships, who could fault him for making that his big "rivalry" game?
I'm not trying to give Nick a free pass for yesterday - he'll garner plenty of well-deserved criticism for some puzzling decisions. But good grief, folks. Step back, breathe and consider the run we've had. Then consider the incoming signing class. Then consider our staff's excellent track record of player development, offseason adjustments and tweaks, and performance in "revenge" games. It will all be OK.
First of all, it obviously doesn't work for Auburn like it works for everyone else. That's part of the point to all this.
You can look at the lack of success against Auburn in two ways, either emotional or pragmatic. The pragmatic is that you can't get to your ultimate goal (NC) without beating Auburn. So this season failed that particular test. You can get where you need to go without beating A&M, or LSU, or losing back around Week 3. You can't get there losing in Week 14.
If you choose to look at it emotionally, it is losing to your biggest rival, which happens to be in-state (rather than UTex-OU or something convoluted like how Kentucky views Tennessee) and is a major competitor for in-state talent, which even with Alabama's focus on recruiting nationally, will always be the cornerstone of your class. Saban may not have had anything to do with how hatred between the two fan bases has developed, but he also can't change it. And when you specifically talk -- in your introductory press conference -- about having a cross-state rival you intend to dominate, don't get upset when people on both sides remind you of it.
As for finishing 11-1 with a BCS bid, again, that's fine if you consider that an acceptable end goal for your program, and Saban himself doesn't. The goal at Alabama is to win championships. Every year it doesn't happen is a letdown. The closest comparison to Alabama football is the New York Yankees in MLB and that franchise considers any year without a World Series win to be a disappointment. What happened Saturday would be like the Yankees losing the division series to the Red Sox, which makes it worse. It may seem unfair that Alabama's expectations are what they are, but no one takes the job without understanding it, the school pays the coaches very well to deal with the pressure and it's only going up, not down.
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This analogy is dead on but it is more like the year The Yankees were up 3 games to 0 in the ALCS and lost 4 in a row to the Sox. Alabama gave up the game, chance at the Heisman, SEC West and BCS opportunity. Loss or not, much like the Yankees, Alabama was the better team but did not finish them off. You can not let a rival hang around. They will seize your opportunities if you do not (as he said) dominate them.
I noticed that as well.
Couldn't believe my eyes when the ball was spotted where it was...
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I noticed that particular line judge made a few couple questionable spots. He also was on the Auburn side. I'm sure the line judge on our side made some calls in our favor. That happens when coaches are in a guy's ears the whole game.
With all due respect the Yankee's winning tradition is comparable to that of Alabama Football but that's were the similarities end. They are a professional organization and Alabama is an institute of higher learning. The goal is obviously to win national championships but that isn't going to happen every year and is not the only thing Alabama Football exist for. It is to educate and make the players better individuals and represent our university in a positive way that we can all be proud of.
As an alumnus I am extremely proud of how this football team has represented The University of Alabama. They don't have to win the national title for me to consider them a success. In fact, it is a colossal act of disrespect to tell this team they are not a success because they lost to a very good and motivated Auburn team. One FG or no call on the movement penalty and they are still undefeated. It's not like they didn't fight and just laid down for Auburn.
It was a razor's thin edge between victory or defeat and a handful of bad breaks and miscues in one game does not define this team for me. Saban has a tremendous amount of respect for this team and so should we all. Along with putting the most players in the NFL we are also graduating the highest percentage of players in the SEC. The program is in such good shape on so many levels and miles ahead of Auburn.
Coach Saban's leadership has made Alabama reach it full potential on and off the field. Beating Auburn at all cost does not trump doing things the right way. That kind of thinking and influence in the program is what caused so much heartache for so many years. It's the commitment to excellence and doing things the right way every day that makes Alabama Football a success. Not a bunch of fans spouting out the old and tired mantra that anything short of a national title and beating Auburn is a failure.
Terrific post.
If in the next five years, we win two more titles, the academic performance of the players continues to soar, and millions of dollars flow to all parts of the university, will we instead want to debate Nick Saban's priorities if he only goes 3-2 against Auburn?
Our rivalry game is the best rivalry game because despite our so-called superiority on so many fronts, we can't seem to control it. To argue otherwise ignores a century of football history.
Count me among those who will blindly settle for being 11-1 and within about 20 plays of winning 5 national championships straight while preparing to play for our sixth. If that's not good enough, we are like the Yankees -- in particular the moron who used to own them.
If you look up and maybe slightly to your left, you'll notice Jess' point sailing over your head.
And for what it's worth, I'm an alumnus twice over (with a graduate degree), and I care deeply about our academic reputation - indeed, I'd rather us be weak in athletics and dominate in the academic rankings if you made me choose. But that's not what this thread is about.
I get Jess' point, but I also know what happened the last we had a really good coach here and how 11-1 season's and not enough NC's weren't good enough. We had an AD that ended up running him off, and it resulted in a decade of irrelevence.
Why do you think no team in the modern era has ever won 3 straight? Alabama holds a .544% winning percentage over AU. Besides the Bryant era, Alabama has never dominated AU the way people seem to think they have in their minds. In fact, AU had a 12-9-1 record over Alabama when Coach Bryant was hired, and hold a 17 - 14 edge over us since he retired.
Besides CNS' first year here when we we terrible, CNS holds a 4-2 edge over AU, 2 SEC's and 3 BCSNCG's.
This loss sucks, but history says we're not going to beat AU every year, win the SECCG every year, and win the NC every year. To think otherwise is simply wishful thinking.
First of all, you can't throw out 2007 just because it doesn't suit you. Alabama is 4-3 against Auburn under Nick Saban. If you're going to toss that loss, toss the win over Tennessee that same year while you're at it. I bet you won't do that.
You do, however, bring up a pretty good point about the AU series -- "other than the Bryant era." It was scarcely a month ago that the discussion was over who the best Alabama coach of all time was. Domination in a rivalry series is probably part of that discussion.
A win this past Saturday, and Saban is 5-2 and tied with Gene Stallings with better than a .700 win percentage in the series. Then we're not having this discussion -- because Alabama wouldn't have been upset by its in-state rival, and would be playing for a conference title. Separate from the fact that the game happened to be against Auburn, the simple fact that this is the 12th game of the year makes it more important than the second or third game of the year, because losing it does more damage to your ability to play for titles. A record of 4-3 in ... let's call it "the regular season finale" to get Auburn out of the discussion entirely ... means Alabama is not "finishing." Hence the title of the column.
Let's call a spade a spade, please: Big-time college football has very little to do with a school's academic side. That illusion has been long gone for years if not decades. The Alabama Athletic Department is a multi-multi-million-dollar enterprise and the people who are in charge of the program are rewarded handsomely for their efforts. And while the football program may exist for the ancillary reasons you suggest, it must first win. That's been understood longer than I've been alive and is evidenced by Bryant's quip about no crowds showing up to cheer on the math team.
As for the rest if this season is considered a success, it will have to be so considered in spite of, and not because of, Saban's own mantra of process and finishing. The highlight of the season ends up being either the LSU win or the win in a revenge game against Johnny Manziel. If you're going to create the expectation, own it at all times.
Finally, I don't know where you got the "beating Auburn at all cost" thing or how "the right way" got pulled into the conversation. No one is talking about kneecapping Auburn players, paying off the refs or buying players. However, the schedule is what it is, so putting greater emphasis on beating Auburn is not "spouting" an "old and tired mantra," it's what has to be done. Or your season's over a week or two before the BCS Championship Game.
I'm not throwing out 2007 simply because it suits me. CNS lost to Sylvester Croom, and Louisana Monroe that year, and squeaked by Houston and Colorado, so that year is not indicative of the kind of coach CNS is. Yeah sure, its part of the overall record, but that year is nothing like the run we've been on since then.
As far as wins, championships, and overall accomplishments, Coach Bryant has a resume that will never be equaled. He dominated AU in a way that no one was ever done. You say that domination in a rivalry series matters in when talking about Alabama's best coach ever, and I agree with that. OTOH, Coach Bryant never beat Texas or Notre Dame and lost bowl games in '64 and '73 that would have cost NC's in today's rules. From '67 - '74 Coach Bryant went on a 8 year winless streak in bowls (0-7-1 record). His overall bowl record here was 12-10-2. Other than the series with AU, is it fair to say CNS has finished much better than Coach Bryant so far?
Time has a way of making things either look better or worse than they actually are. CNS has accomplished what he has in a much more competitive era, with much more limitations than Coach Bryant ever did. Its looking more and more to me what CNS has accomplished here won't be truly be appreciated by a lot of people until it is over.
Now, do I think we finished this year? Absolutely not. Do I think we should have won this game? Yes I do. However, it is not something I am going to dwell on or let define how I feel about CNS.
One play being different could have changed this game, and we're talking about MIZZ right. Last year against UGA or in 2009 against Tennessee we made that one play. This year against AU we didn't. That's just how close these things come down to sometimes. If we got blown out, or even physically whipped, I may agree with you that CNS is not preparing our players properly for the Iron Bowl or not getting how important this rivarly is. But when we were gain over 100 yards more than they do and lose because we miss 4 FG's, players drop balls, AJ misses open receivers, and because defensive players that are in postion to make plays miss tackles and blow assignments, I can't put that all on him.
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