JessN: Auburn wrap-up: Another miracle finish, because Alabama couldn’t finish

[JessN]

I'm not throwing out 2007 simply because it suits me. CNS lost to Sylvester Croom, and Louisana Monroe that year, and squeaked by Houston and Colorado, so that year is not indicative of the kind of coach CNS is. Yeah sure, its part of the overall record, but that year is nothing like the run we've been on since then.

As far as wins, championships, and overall accomplishments, Coach Bryant has a resume that will never be equaled. He dominated AU in a way that no one was ever done. You say that domination in a rivalry series matters in when talking about Alabama's best coach ever, and I agree with that. OTOH, Coach Bryant never beat Texas or Notre Dame and lost bowl games in '64 and '73 that would have cost NC's in today's rules. From '67 - '74 Coach Bryant went on a 8 year winless streak in bowls (0-7-1 record). His overall bowl record here was 12-10-2. Other than the series with AU, is it fair to say CNS has finished much better than Coach Bryant so far?

Time has a way of making things either look better or worse than they actually are. CNS has accomplished what he has in a much more competitive era, with much more limitations than Coach Bryant ever did. Its looking more and more to me what CNS has accomplished here won't be truly be appreciated by a lot of people until it is over.

Now, do I think we finished this year? Absolutely not. Do I think we should have won this game? Yes I do. However, it is not something I am going to dwell on or let define how I feel about CNS.

One play being different could have changed this game, and we're talking about MIZZ right. Last year against UGA or in 2009 against Tennessee we made that one play. This year against AU we didn't. That's just how close these things come down to sometimes. If we got blown out, or even physically whipped, I may agree with you that CNS is not preparing our players properly for the Iron Bowl or not getting how important this rivarly is. But when we were gain over 100 yards more than they do and lose because we miss 4 FG's, players drop balls, AJ misses open receivers, and because defensive players that are in postion to make plays miss tackles and blow assignments, I can't put that all on him.

The column mentions poor execution as a factor in the game.

It also mentions playing flat. I've seen that now four times in seven years -- 07, 09, 10 and 13. Three losses and a near-miss. When does it become a trend? Better question -- when does that become acceptable? If the answer to that question is "never," it begs the question, when does it get fixed and who fixes it?

Emotional preparation is almost entirely on a coaching staff. I've seen several people on different message boards mention the difference in demeanor between the two teams in the pregame. I don't think they were seeing mirages. For whatever reason, that play against Georgia gets made, or the plays get made against Tennessee, but they don't get made against Auburn. Is it because Auburn was the better team? Not even close. Auburn had two defensive starters that could have broken the two-deep at Alabama.

 

[CrimsonProf]

I get Jess' point, but I also know what happened the last we had a really good coach here and how 11-1 season's and not enough NC's weren't good enough. We had an AD that ended up running him off, and it resulted in a decade of irrelevence.

Why do you think no team in the modern era has ever won 3 straight? Alabama holds a .544% winning percentage over AU. Besides the Bryant era, Alabama has never dominated AU the way people seem to think they have in their minds. In fact, AU had a 12-9-1 record over Alabama when Coach Bryant was hired, and hold a 17 - 14 edge over us since he retired.

Besides CNS' first year here when we we terrible, CNS holds a 4-2 edge over AU, 2 SEC's and 3 BCSNCG's.

This loss sucks, but history says we're not going to beat AU every year, win the SECCG every year, and win the NC every year. To think otherwise is simply wishful thinking.

I see your point - but seriously?

 

[Atl Joe]

Emotional preparation is almost entirely on a coaching staff. I've seen several people on different message boards mention the difference in demeanor between the two teams in the pregame. I don't think they were seeing mirages. For whatever reason, that play against Georgia gets made, or the plays get made against Tennessee, but they don't get made against Auburn. Is it because Auburn was the better team? Not even close. Auburn had two defensive starters that could have broken the two-deep at Alabama.

This is perfectly stated. If you are not emotionally ready for your rivalry game, then why not? What else was on their minds when they woke up Saturday? What other things did they have on the agenda?

To do list should have been:
1 - mash Auburn
2 - there is no 2

Looking back, not many were upset because Fraudphony left. What made them angry was that he tanked the team for the Iron Bowl and tried to blame everyone else but himself for it. That is unforgivable.

 

[Bamabuzzard]

Emotional preparation is almost entirely on a coaching staff. I've seen several people on different message boards mention the difference in demeanor between the two teams in the pregame. I don't think they were seeing mirages. For whatever reason, that play against Georgia gets made, or the plays get made against Tennessee, but they don't get made against Auburn. Is it because Auburn was the better team? Not even close. Auburn had two defensive starters that could have broken the two-deep at Alabama.

My dad and I were talking yesterday about the game and he brought up some good points.

* One of the bi-products of Saban's "process" is disregarding emotion and focusing on the task at hand. For most games we play during the year that works. But in rivalry games it can be counter productive......UNLESS something has happened to put the team and staff in an emotional frenzy like the "Never again" game of 2010. It seemed that loss stung not only the players but the coaching staff so bad that when we played them the following year we were like vicious lions just looking for something to devour.

* This maybe what Saban and Bama needed. To be brought back down to earth and reminded that you can't just roll your helmets out there and expect folks to roll over. Getting physically whipped by inferior athletes is embarrassing and hopefully will light a fire in not only the players coming back but the entire staff.

* And as mentioned in other threads, we've got to get better at defending the mobile quarterback. It seems LSU can come up with a scheme to do this (they did it to Manziel tw years in a row) and you'd think our staff would at least look at the tape.

 

[rizolltizide]

We're 7-5 in November against Div 1 teams since 2010. I think that speaks entirely to what Jess is trying to say. We'll move on, but that one stings because it really was about more than just November 30, 2013.

Carry on.

 

[Bamabuzzard]

We're 7-5 in November against Div 1 teams since 2010. I think that speaks entirely to what Jess is trying to say. We'll move on, but that one stings because it really was about more than just November 30, 2013.

Carry on.

What do you think it is that's causing the November issues?

 

[crimson2713]

Been saying that about LSU. They also beat Oregon a few years back and Aubarn this year. Chavez has it figured out. They should watch those tapes!

 

[rizolltizide]

What do you think it is that's causing the November issues?

No idea, bro.

 

[Bamabuzzard]

No idea, bro.

Yeah, same here. There are so many variables in place there's no telling what's causing it.

 

[DrollTide]

BTW I really appreciate Jess engaging in a discussion on this. Not many columnists are asked to make a point-by-point defense of their articles. Most people don't realize the balancing act that published writers have to navigate, between brevity and lengthily providing all the back-story and justification for every assertion made, and between vanilla and actual penetrating insight. This article has stirred the pudding, and helped our catharsis. Thanks Jess!

 

[Bamabuzzard]

BTW I really appreciate Jess engaging in a discussion on this. Not many columnists are asked to make a point-by-point defense of their articles. Most people don't realize the balancing act that published writers have to navigate, between brevity and lengthily providing all the back-story and justification for every assertion made, and between vanilla and actual penetrating insight. This article has stirred the pudding, and helped our catharsis. Thanks Jess!

When you make the kind of coin Jess makes it's just a part of the job. :biggrin2:

 

[BigEasyTider]

I'm not going to re-hash most of what is on my mind in this one, because I'm sure it's been discussed at length above. The bottom line was that we didn't play well, coaching was very subpar, and the two combined to get us beat in a game that we would (and should) have otherwise won in relative ease had we played and coached like we should have.

What I will add, though, is that I find one common strain running throughout our 2009 near debacle, and the 2010 and 2013 debacles against Auburn: Their defensive line has controlled our offensive line in the running game, and that has cost us dearly in all three. Ingram had a disastrous day in 2009, and when the offense went cold in the second half in '10 and '13, it was all because the Auburn defensive line dominated our running game and overpowered us at the point of attack. Forget about shoddy execution, lackadaisical effort, and bad coaching, if we can just convert on third and fourth and short in the running game on Saturday night, we win without a problem. At some point we're going to have to re-invent our offense against these guys a bit, because it seems clear that Malzahn's offense is going to have pretty good success against Saban's defense (i.e. 26 points per game offensively in those three contests). "Only" putting up 24-28 points and having the offense sputter out down the stretch isn't going to be enough to beat these guys on a consistent basis unless the defense gets back to 2011 levels.

 

[Bamabuzzard]

What I will add, though, is that I find one common strain running throughout our 2009 near debacle, and the 2010 and 2013 debacles against Auburn: Their defensive line has controlled our offensive line in the running game, and that has cost us dearly in all three. Ingram had a disastrous day in 2009, and when the offense went cold in the second half in '10 and '13, it was all because the Auburn defensive line dominated our running game and overpowered us at the point of attack. Forget about shoddy execution, lackadaisical effort, and bad coaching, if we can just convert on third and fourth and short in the running game on Saturday night, we win without a problem. At some point we're going to have to re-invent our offense against these guys a bit, because it seems clear that Malzahn's offense is going to have pretty good success against Saban's defense (i.e. 26 points per game offensively in those three contests). "Only" putting up 24-28 points and having the offense sputter out down the stretch isn't going to be enough to beat these guys on a consistent basis unless the defense gets back to 2011 levels.

And that what's baffling. But it is not hard to see how they're doing it. They load the box and dare us to pass. Did it the entire game.

 

[imauafan]

I'm not going to re-hash most of what is on my mind in this one, because I'm sure it's been discussed at length above. The bottom line was that we didn't play well, coaching was very subpar, and the two combined to get us beat in a game that we would (and should) have otherwise won in relative ease had we played and coached like we should have.

What I will add, though, is that I find one common strain running throughout our 2009 near debacle, and the 2010 and 2013 debacles against Auburn: Their defensive line has controlled our offensive line in the running game, and that has cost us dearly in all three. Ingram had a disastrous day in 2009, and when the offense went cold in the second half in '10 and '13, it was all because the Auburn defensive line dominated our running game and overpowered us at the point of attack. Forget about shoddy execution, lackadaisical effort, and bad coaching, if we can just convert on third and fourth and short in the running game on Saturday night, we win without a problem. At some point we're going to have to re-invent our offense against these guys a bit, because it seems clear that Malzahn's offense is going to have pretty good success against Saban's defense (i.e. 26 points per game offensively in those three contests). "Only" putting up 24-28 points and having the offense sputter out down the stretch isn't going to be enough to beat these guys on a consistent basis unless the defense gets back to 2011 levels.

BET, I agree and would also say that there have been games over the past 5 years that we have won where the OL did not dominate a weaker DL like they should. IMHO, we are way too predictable on offense at times and that hampers our OL. When we have a consistent passing attack and mix the plays up then our running game usually works better. I can't put my finger on it but this year our passing attack did not click like it did last year. The injury to Cooper is part of the problem but AJ has been off on almost every deep ball this year and when you take away the threat of the deep pass our offense becomes way too conservative and predictable.

 

[Special K]

And that what's baffling. But it is not hard to see how they're doing it. They load the box and dare us to pass. Did it the entire game.

Yes they did. I know we are all about balance, but outside of the dropped passes and a couple of pressures on AJ, we threw it on them anytime we wanted to. Why we didn't put the game in McCarron's hands and throw it more down the stretch, I'm not sure. If we throw it about 10 more times in this game, we might have won it going away. But then again, that's hindsight.

 

[CrimsonEyeshade]

Yes they did. I know we are all about balance, but outside of the dropped passes and a couple of pressures on AJ, we threw it on them anytime we wanted to. Why we didn't put the game in McCarron's hands and throw it more down the stretch, I'm not sure. If we throw it about 10 more times in this game, we might have won it going away. But then again, that's hindsight.

There's a case to be made, with or without two days of hindsight, that with the game on the line you turn to what should have been your Heisman-winning quarterback to finish the drill. To be fair, though, when was the last time we failed to make a yard at a key moment or failed to score a point on consecutive fourth quarter trips to the red zone?

 

[Bamabuzzard]

When you get a chance, say more about this in relation to Jess' piece. I'm genuinely curious.

Oops. Just now seeing this one.

My point is I don't have an issue with criticism. There's no doubt the staff (Saban) needs to be questioned and receive proper criticism. But like anything, it can be taken too far to where it causes more damage than intended.

 

[BigEasyTider]

Re: offensive gameplanning in general, I do think we tend to get a bit infatuated at times with imposing our will on opposing defenses up front, almost to a fault. That's obviously great when it works, but when it doesn't, I think we do get a bit stubborn at times and insist on continuing to attempt to break through with the interior running game, instead of going to something else. Although that happened on Saturday, I don't think that's necessarily something that is unique to that one game.

FWIW, I thought we should have essentially went with the 2011 BCS Championship gameplan, i.e. passing on early downs, and especially involving Howard to take advantage of the Auburn linebacker corps. Auburn has a fine defensive line and a weak back-seven, so I have no idea why we wouldn't choose to attack the intermediate-to-deep passing game more than we did, and we instead chose to try to establish the interior running game and work the short passing game as a complement. Basically, I think we came out and ran what Ellis Johnson probably hoped we would run, and obviously we didn't change that strategy down the stretch.

Saban has certainly talked a lot publicly about how he feels McCarron is very underrated, but really there was little, if anything, in our gameplan on Saturday that could be considered an endorsement of his abilities. I'd say actions speak louder than words in that regard. If there was a game on the schedule this season where you could say it would really make sense to go a bit pass-heavy and turn McCarron loose, it was the Iron Bowl, and the staff basically said, "Ah, no thinks, we'll give it to Yeldon."

 

[PerdidoTide]

The column mentions poor execution as a factor in the game.

It also mentions playing flat. I've seen that now four times in seven years -- 07, 09, 10 and 13. Three losses and a near-miss. When does it become a trend? Better question -- when does that become acceptable? If the answer to that question is "never," it begs the question, when does it get fixed and who fixes it?

Emotional preparation is almost entirely on a coaching staff. I've seen several people on different message boards mention the difference in demeanor between the two teams in the pregame. I don't think they were seeing mirages. For whatever reason, that play against Georgia gets made, or the plays get made against Tennessee, but they don't get made against Auburn. Is it because Auburn was the better team? Not even close. Auburn had two defensive starters that could have broken the two-deep at Alabama.

It's sports and perfection is not obtainable. You try your best but you won't achieve perfection. Teams come out flat from time to time and it is what it is. Alabama has had more consistent play than any other team over the last 5 years by a mile. What magic changes in preparation could Saban have made to make the outcome any different? He has a proven system of preparing his men for battle and it works well 90% of the time. He isn't going to change and why should he. It's his core philosophy.

My answer is yes that the last seven years of football under Coach Saban is absolutely 100% acceptable even with a 4-3 record against Auburn. If the answer is no and a majority of the spoiled fan base starts singing that mantra then we might just run off arguably the best college football coach in the history of the game. We should be thanking Coach Saban for his leadership and give him another raise this year. I hope the administration has enough foresight to realize this.

Want to show Saban how much we appreciate him? Give him a big raise even when we don't reach the mountain top. It would make a huge statement to him and 100% guarantee he will be an Alabama man till he retires. I guarantee there are many teams willing to pay him 8 to 10 million a year even with his "unacceptable record" against Auburn. Are we willing to pony up and pay him his market value this year? I hope so. Our administration best not be penny wise and dollar foolish on this.

I don't think the point of this article went over my head at all. It was a criticism of Coach Saban and his record against Auburn implying that he doesn't "get the rivalry" and 4-3 against Auburn is unacceptable no matter the circumstance. I think this kind of article and those who agree with it is an example of the spoiled fan base that Terry Saban may have been alluding to. It shows the stunning arrogance and unrealistic expectations that some Alabama fans have.

We accuse Auburn of being obsessed with Alabama but we can't even be secure in a historic run of dominance and championships because we lost a couple of heart-breakers to Auburn and they got a championship of their own? I believe Alabama's greatness makes Auburn better. They use it for fuel and judge themselves against it. Good for them. Alabama judges itself against itself not Auburn. Auburn should not define Alabama but when one infers that Coach Saban's body of work is not acceptable because of the record with Auburn that is exactly what they are doing.

Enjoy this run and take pride in what has been accomplished and give thanks to the man's leadership who has made it possible. We shouldn't nitpick him because our egos have a hard time listening to crap from Auburn co-workers and neighbors. Maybe Coach Saban has more to teach us about how to approach and view the Auburn Rivalry than we do him. Anyone ever think of that?

 

[92tide]

Re: offensive gameplanning in general, I do think we tend to get a bit infatuated at times with imposing our will on opposing defenses up front, almost to a fault. That's obviously great when it works, but when it doesn't, I think we do get a bit stubborn at times and insist on continuing to attempt to break through with the interior running game, instead of going to something else. Although that happened on Saturday, I don't think that's necessarily something that is unique to that one game.

FWIW, I thought we should have essentially went with the 2011 BCS Championship gameplan, i.e. passing on early downs, and especially involving Howard to take advantage of the Auburn linebacker corps. Auburn has a fine defensive line and a weak back-seven, so I have no idea why we wouldn't choose to attack the intermediate-to-deep passing game more than we did, and we instead chose to try to establish the interior running game and work the short passing game as a complement. Basically, I think we came out and ran what Ellis Johnson probably hoped we would run, and obviously we didn't change that strategy down the stretch. Saban has certainly talked a lot publicly about how he feels McCarron is very underrated, but really there was little, if anything, in our gameplan on Saturday that could be considered an endorsement of his abilities. I'd say actions speak louder than words in that regard.

we seemed to be interested in throwing the ball in the first quarter and we kept dropping passes and stalling drives. that may have had something to do with it.