Link: Ayn Rand: Welfare Queen

[Bodhisattva]

John Galt was an al Qaeda sympathizer. Didn't he blow up a bldg or something?

That was Howard Roark in The Fountainhead who blew up a building (with no one inside) because his architectural ideas were stolen. Not really like al Qaeda at all.

 

[Nate Harris]

I'm saying that it was Ms. O'Connor's position that one who is forced against his or her will to subsidize any policy with which he or she does not agree, is morally entitled to seek recompense in whatever means the forcer makes available - even if that form of recompense is in effect fulfilling the very policy to which the victim originally objected.

Ah yes, denounce it on principle before it's implemented but once it goes into effect and becomes standard practice then fully embrace it for yourself even as you continue to denounce it. Most people call this hypocrisy but self-interest is an equally apt term. Be sure to to sign up for your Obamacare benefits in 2014 so you can cash in even as you continue to rail against it. This is exactly the strategy that Obama hopes you'll adopt. Thus you join into the socialist way and your words become irrelevant. This is exactly how socialism wins the game over the long haul. You might as well concede defeat.

 

[Bodhisattva]

Ah yes, denounce it on principle before it's implemented but once it goes into effect and becomes standard practice then fully embrace it for yourself even as you continue to denounce it. Most people call this hypocrisy but self-interest is an equally apt term. Be sure to to sign up for your Obamacare benefits in 2014 so you can cash in even as you continue to rail against it. This is exactly the strategy that Obama hopes you'll adopt. You might as well concede defeat.

LOL! You're in total ridiculous mode today, Nate. Can you have a debate without trying to pervert every word of what Pachy wrote? You must be a lawyer.

 

[Nate Harris]

LOL! You're in total ridiculous mode today, Nate. Can you have a debate without trying to pervert every word of what Pachy wrote? You must be a lawyer.

"When men think and believe in one set of symbols and act in ways which are contrary to their professed and conscious ideas, confusion and insincerity are bound to result." -- John Dewey

"Hypocrisy in anything whatever may deceive the cleverest and most penetrating man, but the least wide-awake of children recognizes it, and is revolted by it, however ingeniously it may be disguised." -- Leo Tolstoy

 

[Bodhisattva]

"When men think and believe in one set of symbols and act in ways which are contrary to their professed and conscious ideas, confusion and insincerity are bound to result." -- John Dewey

"Hypocrisy in anything whatever may deceive the cleverest and most penetrating man, but the least wide-awake of children recognizes it, and is revolted by it, however ingeniously it may be disguised ." -- Leo Tolstoy

Your quotes are cute but non sequitur. -- Bodhisattva

 

[92tide]

That was Howard Roark in The Fountainhead who blew up a building (with no one inside) because his architectural ideas were stolen. Not really like al Qaeda at all.

he was more of an eco-terrorist

and he sounds a lot like many of the architects i know, pi$$y and temperamental

 

[CharminTide]

I remember when I used to think Ayn Rand was a genius. This was back in high school when I shopped at Hot Topic and painted my fingernails black.

Then I grew up.

 

[Bodhisattva]

he was more of an eco-terrorist

and he sounds a lot like many of the architects i know, pi$$y and temperamental

Oh, see now you've gone and done it. You cross an architect and you have an enemy for life. You're on your own, my friend. I don't know you! Go away, stranger!

 

[Bodhisattva]

I remember when I used to think Ayn Rand was a genius. This was back in high school when I shopped at Hot Topic and painted my fingernails black.

Then I grew up.

If you buy your chart as a legitmate criticism, you're not that grown up. And I bet you still paint your fingernails.

 

[Nate Harris]

Your quotes are cute but non sequitur. -- Bodhisattva

When you say you're entitled to SS and Medicare because you pay taxes then your children and grandchildren will say they're entitled to Obamacare because they pay taxes. That's the whole point of the quotes. This dynamic is what will insure the survival of the program in perpetuity. If this is the approach that conservatives intend to take then the game is already over.

 

[gmart74]

I remember when I used to think Ayn Rand was a genius. This was back in high school when I shopped at Hot Topic and painted my fingernails black.

Then I grew up.

lol wow, what an admission.

 

[PacadermaTideUs]

LOL! You're in total ridiculous mode today, Nate. Can you have a debate without trying to pervert every word of what Pachy wrote? You must be a lawyer.

I know. And Nate's no intellectual slouch, so I have to assume intellectual dishonesty rather than true ignorance - a harsher judgement, in my estimation. But I'll put the question to Nate: which is it?

If you were mugged on the street by gunpoint, and your assailant who took your $100 were later apprehended and your $100 were recovered, would you be wrong for accepting your $100 back? Would accepting that $100 back represent an endorsement of the original mugging?

Since you didn't answer the questions above, I'll assume that either a) you think it's inappropriate to seek repayment of money you hypothetically lost in a mugging, or b) you whole heartedly approve of mugging. So again, which is it?

I've seen a lot of juking and jiving, but you've yet to definitively explain your original charge - that support for Obamacare and Randian Objectivism are somehow intellectually congruent.

 

[Bodhisattva]

When you say you're entitled to SS and Medicare because you pay taxes the younger generation will then say they're entitled to Obamacare because they pay taxes. That's the whole point of the quotes. This dynamic is what will insure the survival of the program in perpetuity. If this is the approach that conservatives intend to take then the game is already over.

A huge percentage of those receiving entitlements are not paying much, if anything, into the system. I'm forced to pay into the welfare state for myself and many others. The redistribution (theft) of wealth is one of the things I oppose. Also, the fact that it is being filtered through the inefficient bureacracies futher drains away wealth. For example, there are more bureaucrats working on farm subsidies than there are farmers. Social Security provides a negative return on investment. And so on. And so on. This is just dumb.

I recognize it is dumb and will never like these programs. But, I will accept a fraction of the money back that I put into the welfare state. It doesn't make me a hypocrite; it just means I'm not interested in being a financial martyr.

 

[CharminTide]

If you buy your chart as a legitmate criticism, you're not that grown up. And I bet you still paint your fingernails.

I consider little of Rand's work legitimate, and the cold and miserable existence in which most of her followers toil to be the enduring manifestation of her philosophy. The chart is more a knock at her nightmarish literary skills moreso than her objectivist sermonizing.

lol wow, what an admission.

I had an eventful childhood.

 

[Bodhisattva]

I consider little of Rand's work legitimate, and the cold and miserable existence in which most of her followers toil to be the enduring manifestation of her philosophy. The chart is more a knock at her nightmarish literary skills moreso than her objectivist sermonizing.

The next time I read a legitimate criticism of Rand will be the first time.

 

[CharminTide]

The next time I read a legitimate criticism of Rand will be the first time.

That is extremely telling.

Carry on.

 

[Bodhisattva]

That is extremely telling.

Carry on.

Yep, I despise parasitic, lazy arse people who steal. And I have similar disgust for those who promote the policies that create parasitic, lazy arse people who steal. It's kind of moral/consitutional/economic/philosophical basis I have.

But, others like such policies because they think they like it (or some equal nonsensical rationale). Carry on.

 

[Nate Harris]

I know. And Nate's no intellectual slouch, so I have to assume intellectual dishonesty rather than true ignorance - a harsher judgement, in my estimation. But I'll put the question to Nate: which is it?

When you argue that you're entitled to socialist benefits because you pay taxes the younger generation will take that to heart on other social programs. Perhaps my mistake was in failing to be explicitly clear on this younger generation angle in my initial responses on page one of this thread. If the future of Obamacare was only to be decided by old codgers like you and me then it would die.

This is not merely about the virtuousness of Rand's own actions. That's a debate for the 0.01% of musty academics. I cannot help but be reminded of the fact that Reagan made himself into a public opponent of Medicare back in the 60's before it ever became law. Now look at all the conservatives (like you) who broadly support it for the sole reason that they've paid taxes and stand to benefit. This is the future of Obamacare. It's not hard to see.

 

[CharminTide]

Yep, I despise parasitic, lazy arse people who steal. And I have similar disgust for those who promote the policies that create parasitic, lazy arse people who steal. It's kind of moral/consitutional/economic/philosophical basis I have.

But, others like such policies because they think they like it (or some equal nonsensical rationale). Carry on.

This post was better before your edit.

 

[Bodhisattva]

When you argue that you're entitled to socialist benefits because you pay taxes the younger generation will take that to heart on other social programs. Perhaps my mistake was in failing to be explicitly clear on this younger generation angle in my initial responses on page one of this thread. If the future of Obamacare was only to be decided by old codgers like you and me then it would die.

This is not merely about the virtuousness of Rand's own actions. That's a debate for the 0.01% of musty academics. I cannot help but be reminded of the fact that Reagan made himself into a public opponent of Medicare back in the 60's before it ever became law. Now look at all the conservatives (like you) who broadly support it for the sole reason that they've paid taxes and stand to benefit. This is the future of Obamacare. It's not hard to see.

I know your response was to Pachy, but let me comment on the bolded part of your post. I don't support entitlements. I don't stand to benefit from them because I'm one of society's productive citizens. Getting some of my money back only means the personal ripoff is slightly less. I'm not given the option of voting against these retarded policies.